Total Composites Heat Options

Hello, I am about to pull the trigger on a Ram 5500 C&C 84” CA with dual 370 amp alternators. I will be putting a 12.5’ (interior) total composites box with no cabover on the back with 45 degree front and sides. The Ram C&C is going to be the 6.4 petrol engine. I would have chosen the Ford F-550 but they won’t do dual fuel tanks with petrol only diesel so that’s out as it’s almost impossible to find or have petrol aux tanks made. I have had 5 ram diesel based platforms from flatbed FWC’s to custom full body campers. I love the Cummins and ease of everything but am doing petrol because of lack of ULSD and lack of DEF availability overseas specifically Northern Africa and Siberia and the stans. The first trip once this rig is done will be to ship to Norway and do the Scandinavian countries over in to Russia then Mongolia and the Stans and finish out in Vladivostok. I’ve had great luck running deleted diesel trucks in the last but even with deleting they don’t like to run on crap diesel that I will have access to and no DEF accessibility for an intact truck. I have run hundreds of days with Webasto diesel heaters down to -70 and performed flawlessly.
That leaves me to the issue with this build: petrol Espar or electric heater? I will be running Three CG3 BattleBorn (270AH each) with solar and Victon brain/DC-DC chargers. I have a buddy with a van who runs a Pali Bilgesafe 400W heater in his sprinter. I figure I would need at least two of those for the size of this interior and winter temps of -20 to -40. My first thought is to run a petrol espar as it would plumb right in to the main tank with 74 gallons of petrol and be efficient. However, if I could not utilize my fuel source and run electric heat that would be amazing and limit me even less. However I have no experience with electric heaters in expedition rigs. I would love to have a Cummins with diesel webasto but the limitations outweigh it. Anyone have experience with electric heaters and their functionality?
TLDR; petrol or electric heat in an expedition rig?
 

john61ct

Adventurer
Absolutely burn your propulsion fuel for heat.

Forget electricity for that.

Backup / conserving fuel maybe a tiny solid-fuel stove like on boats.

Ideally hydronic circulation, a calorifier with the engine coolant loop, and of course get HWS that way too.

Both Espar/Eberspacher and Webasto make petrol/benzene hydronic units.

Might want to source from Norway first stop to get Euro level service. Russia is all "Planar" Espar knockoffs
 

Victorian

Approved Vendor : Total Composites
You have probably read my response to heaters in other posts already :)
The petrol heaters have tons of issues, easpecially with altitude. Most service centers don't know how to service them them as they are kind of rare. If I would be you, I would focus on reliability. Diesel would be my first choice. Again, the German made heaters can be finiky. Some people have used them for years and love them. Other hate them. We have a lot of customers that are fed up and ready to rip them out LOL. My vote goes with Planar. Even if there is an issue, you can fix them easy by yourself. I'm not kidding: we sold hundreds this year alone and not a single person has ever needed a service appointment over the years as far as I know.
Btw, we run ours on a seperate tank with kerosene for a more efficient burn (diesel has too much garbage added) . Altitudes of more than 10,000ft are no problem.

Electric is possible but not super practical in the winter when you solar input is limited.
 

john61ct

Adventurer
If you are going with carrying multiple fuels and space heating with air rather than hydronics, Propex HS2211 is a propane fueled option

in case that's what you're also carrying for other uses.

from the UK but sold also in the US by a VW bus outfit in CA
 

simple

Adventurer
You have probably read my response to heaters in other posts already :)
The petrol heaters have tons of issues, easpecially with altitude. Most service centers don't know how to service them them as they are kind of rare. If I would be you, I would focus on reliability. Diesel would be my first choice. Again, the German made heaters can be finiky. Some people have used them for years and love them. Other hate them. We have a lot of customers that are fed up and ready to rip them out LOL. My vote goes with Planar. Even if there is an issue, you can fix them easy by yourself. I'm not kidding: we sold hundreds this year alone and not a single person has ever needed a service appointment over the years as far as I know.
Btw, we run ours on a seperate tank with kerosene for a more efficient burn (diesel has too much garbage added) . Altitudes of more than 10,000ft are no problem.

Electric is possible but not super practical in the winter when you solar input is limited.

Does the Planar manual say kerosene is an ok alternative? I'm curious if the lower lubricity effects the fuel pump lifespan.
 

Victorian

Approved Vendor : Total Composites
Does the Planar manual say kerosene is an ok alternative? I'm curious if the lower lubricity effects the fuel pump lifespan.
They don’t specifically say it’s ok. Kerosene in North America is different then in Europe! Over there it’s known as petroleum. This means that planar would need to include the correct name for each country to avoid warranty cases. You may be correct about the lubrication…. Time will tell. We have run our heater now for two years on kerosene and haven’t seen an issue. Saying that, I take your concern/ question and pack a spare pump! I rather switch the pump out than taking the heater apart and clean the soot out.
 

DiploStrat

Expedition Leader
FWIW - I have a Dual Top, feeding from the main diesel tank. Just had to replace the burner after two years or so. No fun at all and the parts are expensive.

Knew a gentleman with a Tiger who added an ESPAR heater which he fed from a dedicated tank. He ran kerosine for altitude and, as far as I know, never had a problem.

I have a rainy day project to add a dedicated heater tank so that I can run kerosine or diesel. The point being that a 5 USG tank will run these things for a long time and is not much of a PITA. Especially compared to replaceing a burner.

A hydronic system is more complex but has the advantage of offering diesel engine preheat.
 

Victorian

Approved Vendor : Total Composites
FWIW - I have a Dual Top, feeding from the main diesel tank. Just had to replace the burner after two years or so. No fun at all and the parts are expensive.

Knew a gentleman with a Tiger who added an ESPAR heater which he fed from a dedicated tank. He ran kerosine for altitude and, as far as I know, never had a problem.

I have a rainy day project to add a dedicated heater tank so that I can run kerosine or diesel. The point being that a 5 USG tank will run these things for a long time and is not much of a PITA. Especially compared to replaceing a burner.

A hydronic system is more complex but has the advantage of offering diesel engine preheat.

our external tank holds 7 litre. We just came back from a week long trip in the Rockies. Temperatures dropped to the freezing point and we ran the heater maybe 1-2 hours in the morning . The tank is still 3/4 full. I think you could go a month without running out of fuel.
 

DiploStrat

Expedition Leader
We usually run 24/7 in season, for cabin heat and hot water. But the concept is the same - unlike propane, these beasts tend to sip rather than guzzle.
 

simple

Adventurer
They don’t specifically say it’s ok. Kerosene in North America is different then in Europe! Over there it’s known as petroleum. This means that planar would need to include the correct name for each country to avoid warranty cases. You may be correct about the lubrication…. Time will tell. We have run our heater now for two years on kerosene and haven’t seen an issue. Saying that, I take your concern/ question and pack a spare pump! I rather switch the pump out than taking the heater apart and clean the soot out.
Looking at the Planar website they state that the portable standalone units run on diesel or kerosene. Nothing mentioned on the 2D
 

charlesrg

Member
On my build I'm adding some electric floor heating to the build, it will run free on excess solar. So far I've 3 items to warm up the unit.
1 - Coolant loop using Diesel heater or engine coolant line. (Kalori Silencio)
2 - DC heat pump 24V DC AC Unit.
3 - 24V DC Electric floor heating filament.

Each has it's pros and cons and together I've a redundant system.
 

RAM5500 CAMPERTHING

OG Portal Member #183
I have the Espar D2L (diesel) and so far its been absolutely flawless.

FUN FACT I LEARNED ABOUT THE RAM 5500 DUAL TANK SYSTEM:

The automated transfer system moves the fuel from the rear tank to the main tank anytime the main tank gets below half.

The aux port output that one would hook the heater up to to use the vehicles fuel is only on the rear tank (the main tank aux port is used to plumb the transfer system).

The aux port is plumbed 3/4 of the way down the tank. Meaning, it will never suck the tank dry by mistake.

The glitch with this is, if you have less than 1/4 tank in your rear aux tank, you cant get fuel to your heater. I learned this the hard way, hahahaha.

Not a huge deal, and now that i am aware of it, i can easily remedy it, just a heads up.
 

simple

Adventurer
I have the Espar D2L (diesel) and so far its been absolutely flawless.

FUN FACT I LEARNED ABOUT THE RAM 5500 DUAL TANK SYSTEM:

The automated transfer system moves the fuel from the rear tank to the main tank anytime the main tank gets below half.

The aux port output that one would hook the heater up to to use the vehicles fuel is only on the rear tank (the main tank aux port is used to plumb the transfer system).

The aux port is plumbed 3/4 of the way down the tank. Meaning, it will never suck the tank dry by mistake.

The glitch with this is, if you have less than 1/4 tank in your rear aux tank, you cant get fuel to your heater. I learned this the hard way, hahahaha.

Not a huge deal, and now that i am aware of it, i can easily remedy it, just a heads up.
I bet you could add a pickup to the main tank if you wanted. Many moons ago I put a webasto in My 7.3 E350. The kit came with a draw tube that could be installed in the sending unit cover plate. The installation involved lowering the tank, removing the sending unit and drilling a hole through its stainless mounting plate. The draw tube was then sized to whatever length / depth was desired and clamped in place with supplied hardware. The sending unit was then reinstalled.
 

RAM5500 CAMPERTHING

OG Portal Member #183
I bet you could add a pickup to the main tank if you wanted. Many moons ago I put a webasto in My 7.3 E350. The kit came with a draw tube that could be installed in the sending unit cover plate. The installation involved lowering the tank, removing the sending unit and drilling a hole through its stainless mounting plate. The draw tube was then sized to whatever length / depth was desired and clamped in place with supplied hardware. The sending unit was then reinstalled.

Yes, definitely. But at this stage, it would be way too much work now that the camper is on
 

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