Toilet Solution for LONG TERM Overlanding trips

[Traveling 2gether Journal]

Worth reading: http://www.livesmallridefree.com/blog/where-to-responsibly-empty-your-composting-toilet
Composting toilet waste (un-composted crap) can be legally dumped in landfill. NOT against county codes.

Good info. Thanks for sharing. the authors did a lot of work on the subject.

My concern, however is disposing of poo when I am traveling.
Tossing a bag of poo (semi-composted or not) in a public trashcan in many areas will likely end up torn apart by local street dogs. If it makes it past the dogs, a human will have to handle your poo bag as they transport it to the dump. The dump is likely a pile of trash in a riverbed on the outskirts of town that is regularly lit on fire until a storm comes through and washes it down stream. As a result I am really trying to avoid trash cans as a disposal method.

Does anyone know if the contents of a chemical toilet are any safer with regard to E coli or other poo related health concerns?

Also, regarding the "cat hole" technique shortly mentioned in the article, would an 8" covering of soil be sufficient for the contents of a composting toilet?
Would the same technique work for the contents of a chemical toilet?(assuming the use of biodegradable toilet chemicals)

 

[john61ct]

My concern, however is disposing of poo when I am traveling.
Tossing a bag of poo (semi-composted or not) in a public trashcan in many areas will likely end up torn apart by local street dogs. If it makes it past the dogs, a human will have to handle your poo bag as they transport it to the dump. The dump is likely a pile of trash in a riverbed on the outskirts of town that is regularly lit on fire until a storm comes through and washes it down stream.

What third-world type hellscape are you travelling through?

Everywhere I've gone, trash receptacles have bags in them and are regularly emptied into covered dumpsters. Using gloves, no further contact by man or beast.

From then on, hands-free automated equipment gets it trucked to well-regulated incinerators or landfills, specifically designed to prevent contamination of air, soil and water resources.

Into this same exact waste stream regularly go Hazmat chemicals, heavy metals, broken glass, used addicts' needles, decomposing human and animal blood and bodies, soiled diapers etc etc.

A few-gallon sealed bag of partially broken down poo mixed with straw, peat moss, pine needles, sawdust or kitty litter is absolutely NBD.

 

[downhill]

Seems ridiculous to obsess about poo disposal when we live in a world with disposable diapers. Millions of tons of diapers every year. They end up everywhere. The best toilet system I have used is a bucket with a bag and kitty litter or camp fire ash. I drop it in the first trash can I find, and I don't think twice about it.

 

[Traveling 2gether Journal]

What third-world type hellscape are you travelling through?

Everywhere I've gone, trash receptacles have bags in them and are regularly emptied into covered dumpsters. Using gloves, no further contact by man or beast.

From then on, hands-free automated equipment gets it trucked to well-regulated incinerators or landfills, specifically designed to prevent contamination of air, soil and water resources.

Into this same exact waste stream regularly go Hazmat chemicals, heavy metals, broken glass, used addicts' needles, decomposing human and animal blood and bodies, soiled diapers etc etc.

A few-gallon sealed bag of partially broken down poo mixed with straw, peat moss, pine needles, sawdust or kitty litter is absolutely NBD.

I've seen the situation I described in Indonesia, Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, and Nicaragua. It is likely that a similar situation could be found in some of the other countries I've gone through, but I just didn't spend enough time in them to ever go to the dump myself.

Seems ridiculous to obsess about poo disposal when we live in a world with disposable diapers. Millions of tons of diapers every year. They end up everywhere. The best toilet system I have used is a bucket with a bag and kitty litter or camp fire ash. I drop it in the first trash can I find, and I don't think twice about it.

You both have a fare point that there are other bad things in these dumps. I don't know how the dump workers survive breathing in the smoke all day. And 1 bag of poo isn't a big deal and semi composted poo is probably better, but with the advent of forums like this one and stuff like ioverlander lots of people travel through the same areas and stop at the same spots because it's easier than finding new ones. I've seen plenty of spots posted to ioverlander that were later marked as closed because people abused them. No matter how gross, dangerous, or safe you think your poo is most people don't want you throwing it in their trashcan or rinsing out your cassette toilet in their yard or into the street. I've talked to business owners who no longer welcome camping in their restaurant or hotel parking lot for these reasons.

I'm not telling anyone what to do. I appreciate everyones thought on the subject and my needs may just be different than most folks.

I was under the impression that composting toilets made the poo safe. I now see that I was totally wrong. I would still love to hear from anyone that knows whether or not the chemicals in a chemical toilet make the sludge any safer.

 

[Coachgeo]

...I was under the impression that composting toilets made the poo safe. I now see that I was totally wrong. I would still love to hear from anyone that knows whether or not the chemicals in a chemical toilet make the sludge any safer.

Only ones that I know of that makes it "safe" for dropping in a dumpster is stuff either heated enough to kill all pathagens or PETT systems (Now going by name CleanWaste. )

Tiss why I am thinking of a twist on incineration though it will take time and effort. My thoughts are dry fecal via exhaust temps with either direct exhaust gas flow or exhaust gas to air heat exchanger. Then... incinerate sorta..... I say sorta.... cause thinking more of creating bio-char with it. Each load becomes the fuel source to bio-char the next batch with. Granted it is potentially possible to avoid much of this trouble and just make fecal matter inert via temperature of exhaust and just throw it out with trash. Either way; the biggest complexity is getting fecal matter into either the exhaust flow or hot air stream yet same time controlling associated issue (creating "enough heat over duration"- see chart below, smell, heat leaching into camper body?, exhaust leaking into camper body etc.)

As to urine and grey water.... thought is to Fumigate either into hot exhaust path/and or use urine for HHO. May need to fumigate urine first while exhaust temps are hottest... other grey second, incase first may have cooled the exhaust temps some.



PS.. what is heated enough??
from http://documents.worldbank.org/cura...-aspects-of-excreta-and-wastewater-management

another interesting read
https://pub.epsilon.slu.se/2177/1/niwagaba_c_091123.pdf

 

[downhill]

Dumping any of this on the ground is another matter. A little common sense goes a long way.

 

[downhill]

Another sad fact of life is that just about anywhere along most roads where you can pull over, will be a mess with diapers and piles. I suspect this community is far more responsible, but humanity as a whole is not pretty.

 

[kpredator]

I didn’t realize **************** was so
Complicated !!!!!

 

[Coachgeo]

I didn’t realize **************** was so Complicated !!!!!

**************** is easy..... getting rid of it is where the complexity piles up.

 

[john61ct]

Yes in third world countries things are different.

We overlanders are .000001% of their problems though, so long as we are doing things **a bit better** than the locals, that's good enough for me.

Chemicals definitely improve nothing AFAIC and not practical to carry enough for use around the world. That style system is only for first-world style locations with defined dumping stations.

 

[Sitec]

Certainly an interesting thread. I've seen and used cassette type toilets... Never again. We also used to fit a lot of the Thetford type to horse floats I was involved in building in the UK. The whole idea of collecting liquid poo is pretty average, let alone having to dispose of it. I've had nothing whatsoever to do with composting toilets, have read a lot about them, and have visited and spoken with someone locally to me who has one in their overland truck. Most seem to think that the Natures Head is the simplest and best option on the market, and having seen one fitted and 'in use', I'm sold on them and will be buying one for our truck build in the not too distant future. Great thread, keep up the talk on poo!

 

[DiploStrat]

I've seen the situation I described in Indonesia, Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, and Nicaragua. It is likely that a similar situation could be found in some of the other countries I've gone through, but I just didn't spend enough time in them to ever go to the dump myself.
You both have a fare point that there are other bad things in these dumps. I don't know how the dump workers survive breathing in the smoke all day. And 1 bag of poo isn't a big deal and semi composted poo is probably better, but with the advent of forums like this one and stuff like ioverlander lots of people travel through the same areas and stop at the same spots because it's easier than finding new ones. I've seen plenty of spots posted to ioverlander that were later marked as closed because people abused them. No matter how gross, dangerous, or safe you think your poo is most people don't want you throwing it in their trashcan or rinsing out your cassette toilet in their yard or into the street. I've talked to business owners who no longer welcome camping in their restaurant or hotel parking lot for these reasons.

I'm not telling anyone what to do. I appreciate everyones thought on the subject and my needs may just be different than most folks.

I was under the impression that composting toilets made the poo safe. I now see that I was totally wrong. I would still love to hear from anyone that knows whether or not the chemicals in a chemical toilet make the sludge any safer.

Two comments:

-- Third World: The contributions of your composting toilet will be, at the very least, at bit more benign than the output of a cassette toilet. A quick review of the sewage systems of many nations will show that dumping your compost toilet is probably as sanitary as using the toilet in your room at the international hotel downtown. (Sadly.) As one example, there is a river that runs through downtown La Paz, Bolivia ... Good on ya for wanting to be a good global citizen, but it ain't gonna happen. And remember, most overlanders traveling in Jeep type vehicles are pooping behind a tree or dune. (Done that for years.)

-- Composting Toilet vs. Casstte/Black tank. The chemicals that I may place in my cassette are intended to make it easier to dump, that is break up feces and toilet paper, NOT render the slurry biologically safer. A composting toilet, like the Nature's Head, does not produce biologically inert material, but it does begin the process and the contents are a dry, material that looks and smells like dirt or, wait for it, compost. (And yes, we have a compost pile at home and use it in the garden.)

As I have to dump the cassette today, I REALLY miss our Nature's Head! The Nature's Head was easier and you did it less often. And before each trip we simply dumped it in our compost pile at home. Can't do that with a cassette.

Final comment, other than the possible challenge of finding a suitable medium for the toilet, the composting toilet is ideal for the Third World where most villages use outhouses.

 

[Hilldweller]

Yes in third world countries things are different.

We overlanders are .000001% of their problems though, so long as we are doing things **a bit better** than the locals, that's good enough for me.

Chemicals definitely improve nothing AFAIC and not practical to carry enough for use around the world. That style system is only for first-world style locations with defined dumping stations.

Lots of the 3rd world areas that I've been in don't have plumbing that can accommodate toilet paper; the common practice is to wipe and put the the tissue in with the regular household trash.
I always have to remember to tell friends and family that visit us that we flush it all down in 'Merica.


Here's a way to get rid of the poo bags:
Gift wrap it and leave it on the front seat of your rig with the doors unlocked. Go into the cantina, have lunch, come out and your problem will have solved itself.

 

[Traveling 2gether Journal]

Two comments:

-- Third World: The contributions of your composting toilet will be, at the very least, at bit more benign than the output of a cassette toilet. A quick review of the sewage systems of many nations will show that dumping your compost toilet is probably as sanitary as using the toilet in your room at the international hotel downtown. (Sadly.) As one example, there is a river that runs through downtown La Paz, Bolivia ... Good on ya for wanting to be a good global citizen, but it ain't gonna happen. And remember, most overlanders traveling in Jeep type vehicles are pooping behind a tree or dune. (Done that for years.)

-- Composting Toilet vs. Casstte/Black tank. The chemicals that I may place in my cassette are intended to make it easier to dump, that is break up feces and toilet paper, NOT render the slurry biologically safer. A composting toilet, like the Nature's Head, does not produce biologically inert material, but it does begin the process and the contents are a dry, material that looks and smells like dirt or, wait for it, compost. (And yes, we have a compost pile at home and use it in the garden.)

As I have to dump the cassette today, I REALLY miss our Nature's Head! The Nature's Head was easier and you did it less often. And before each trip we simply dumped it in our compost pile at home. Can't do that with a cassette.

Final comment, other than the possible challenge of finding a suitable medium for the toilet, the composting toilet is ideal for the Third World where most villages use outhouses.

So, I'm pretty well sold on the composting toilet being the best option available with regards to pooping and disposing of the poop while traveling in 3rd world environments.
My only hesitations at this point are the amount of space it takes up, needing to mount it in a fixed spot where it can be used and all the bins and crank can be accessed, and the need to vent it.

Diplostrat, you obviously liked your natures head. Did you have any issues with it while off roading? Any issue with dust or water coming in through the vent and causing problems?

 

[DiploStrat]

...
My only hesitations at this point are the amount of space it takes up, needing to mount it in a fixed spot where it can be used and all the bins and crank can be accessed, and the need to vent it.

Diplostrat, you obviously liked your natures head. Did you have any issues with it while off roading? Any issue with dust or water coming in through the vent and causing problems?

-- Space: About the same as any other toilet. A bit deeper than the C400 cassette, but not as wide. (And my problem is that the shower in our new camper is wide but not deep.)

-- Fixed spot: Nope. See here for a clever, slide away installation - https://www.expeditionportal.com/fo...-camper-build-adrift-motorhome.141578/page-22

-- Crank/bin access: Not a problem. The cassette may be a bit easier as you can access it through the camper wall. (But you still have to deal with the stuff inside! )
FWIW, we installed the spider crank which you can use while seated on the toilet. In any case, you don't spend a lot of time cranking, five or ten turns is plenty.

-- Vent: Actually one of the best features of the Nature's Head. (I just spent $200 for a SOG vent for the cassette, only to learn that it won't fit.) The fan is on the toilet and they provide some flex hose. Ours was simply "T'ed" into the grey water stack. You can also install a solar roof vent or a "Siphon 360" to increase the air flow.

-- Dust or water: Never. Again, we simply used the grey water stack. The factory fan does not provide real pressure, but the air flow is out, not in. The only water that is a problem is shower water in a wet bath and you DO have to pay attention to that.

Designing for the greatest ease of use, I would make sure that the bathroom door is wide enough so that you can simply pick the whole thing up and remove it. I had to turn it sideways, so I always had to bag it before I could remove it.

Again, all of this is much easier than it sounds and so much nicer than cleaning/dumping a cassette, which most people take as the industry standard. If nothing else:

-- The wide mouth of the Nature's Head assures that you generally have a perfect crap shoot - no cleaning necessary. Contrast with the tiny mouth on a cassette.

-- The powered vent means that there is no odor when you open the flap. Again, contrast with a two day old cassette.

Hope this is helpful. Good luck!