Toe Clips?

mightymike

Adventurer
I've only been riding a mountain bike for about a year and just upgraded to a Specialized Rockhopper Disc 29" from a 15 year old Cannondale. Very impressed with the new bike and I have a question for you experienced folk:

Would you recommend that I learn to use toe clips? I do not want to use true toeclips with specialized shoes because I participate in a few adventure races every year in which I am on-and-off the bike, running through the woods for a few miles. I have a pair of "basket" type toe clips. The folks at the bike shop suggested that I use toe clips for better control and the ability to get up-stroke leg power. I've been watching a lot of MTB videos on the web and some of the folks who really look like they know what they are doing are not using any clips.

Your comments are appreciated.

Mike
 

TCM

Adventurer, Overland Certified OC0006
I would recommend clip in style pedals and shoes and not old style toe clips. Several companies make shoes which will allow for efficient running off the bike while still allowing you to clip in if necessary. The power transfer and control offered by the clip in style set up is far superior to toe clips. It would even be worth it to carry a different pair of shoes if necessary for the off the bike portions of your races. The difference is that great. I have been bicycle racing for almost 20 years. I started with toe clips back in the day and will never go back under any circumstance.
 

Sloan

Explorer
Check out the Speedplay pedals, I have them and love how easy they are to get in and out of.
 

RHINO

Expedition Leader
no toe clips, there a reason they phased out.

i tried speedplay for a while,, they were kinda cool.

i prefer to ride no clips, regular pedals and flat shoes.
 

ThomD

Explorer
Hi Mike,

I'm a little confused by your post. It looks like you've used the phrase "toe clip" a couple of different ways. "Toe clips" are what you refer to as "true" toe clips - metal baskets at the front of the pedal. Today's designs of a cleat under the shoe that is captured by a mechanical device on the pedal (or variations of this a la speedplays) are generically called "clipless" pedals.

Forget about power on the up stroke. That is a myth.

I like the connected feel of being "clipped" in. SPD style pedals are not fancy, but they work. It is quite possible to run in some shoes and most shoes work with most pedals.

Platform, or flat, or stand-on pedals can be very effective, but most cyclists won't admit it because they've never tried the newer pedals. Competitive Cyclist has a good selection of flat pedals.

Clipless pedals are not hard to learn to use. They are also very safe because any crash violent enough to cause injury is also likely to cause you to clip out automatically - like ski bindings.

-t
 

Super Doody

Explorer
By toe clips, I'm assuming you mean clip in pedals like shimano SPDs. With clip ins, you'll have much more power transfer from each pedal stroke because you'll be able to pull a lot harder on the up stroke. You'll notice a huge difference while climbing. It takes a little while to get use to. You'll fall over a few times when trying to clip out or forgetting you have to clip out, esp while mountain biking but it worth it in the long run. If you are walking a lot off the bike, just get a hiking boot style clip in shoes. Usually the more pricier will be stiffer because they transfer more power and are meant for racing.

In free ride or downhilling videos you'll see guys using bmx type flat pedals. Those will work in more technical terrain. But in terms of speed and efficiency, clip ins are the way to go.
 

Christophe Noel

Expedition Leader
ThomD said:
Forget about power on the up stroke. That is a myth.
-t
Here comes the myth buster!!!! :)

Power on the up stroke is critical. Actually, it is the full rotation of the stroke that is critical and that includes the up stroke. When I started road racing in the mid 80s there was a certain point of pride to having a beautiful, smooth, powerful stroke. I work on my stroke every ride and have for 147,000 miles. Today, riders just mash and hammer and call it good.

A clipless pedal (or any captured pedal) will allow you to engage a variety of muscle groups that otherwise wouldn't be allowed to enter the stroke. Most importantly are your hip flexor muscles.

There are widgets out there designed to maximize your hip flexor developement. I have these weird $900 Power Cranks that help develop hip flexors and in part my up stroke.

I also have a power meter that measures stroke efficiency leg to leg as well as how many watts are produced throughout the stoke. For example a hack rider uses maybe 30% of the stroke to generate power. Stomp, stomp, stomp....that's 30%. A skilled rider can up that to maybe 65% or maybe a tad more. More muscles. More efficiency. More power. More speed. Quicker recover. More better. :)

After 23 years of riding off road and on the tarmac, if you took away my clipless pedals......I'd take up bowling.

For a new mnt rider, I suggest any of the basic models like those by Shimano, Crank Bros, etc. Avoid the mixed pedals with flats around a clipless pedal. I used to teach beginner mtb skills classes and the new riders on those pedals always had the worst time. My last bit of advice - It's all about the shoes. Crappy shoes are a curse. I road race on $750 custom shoes and they're worth every penny. That said, just plan on spending $100-145 on shoes. You can get pedals for $50-65.
 
Last edited:

RHINO

Expedition Leader
Flounder said:
For example a hack rider uses maybe 30% of the stroke to generate power. Stomp, stomp, stomp....that's 30%.

hey i resemble that remark !!! LOL

totally agree that an upstroke is a noticable thing,,, when i rode clipped in i practiced and did notice a difference. at first it was awkward and muscles i didnt know i had were sore,, but after a while it seemed pretty smooth, mostly on the street but i can see where i practiced upstroker could ride well off road also.

call me a hack stomper all you want,, i like flatties !!!:victory:
 

mightymike

Adventurer
As I expected, a bunch of great replies. Thanks for taking the time for such thoughtful input. I will work on my terminology a bit. I have a set of old-style toe clips that will allow me to use a regular shoe and get used to using a captured pedal. After reading these replies and going back by the bike shop today I will most likely progress to a clip-in pedal and a good pair of shoes.

Flounder-if you have any personal suggestions on pedals and shoes, please feel free to PM me. Any recommended MTB equipment catalogs to drool over?

I'm headed out to a new (to me) trail on Thursday and will try the toe clips for the first time. We miss out on a lot here in the east vs. Colorado, Montana, etc., but North Carolina has a lot of first class MTB trails. I'm just pissed at myself for waiting until I hit 40 to give it a try.
 

gearguywb

Explorer
x2..or whatever on using pedals that "clip" in. Just find some that work well for you and allow easy entry and exit. I have been using Crank Brothers for several years. After a race in severe mud conditions it was about the only pedal that you could get in and out of.

The basket style cages are just plain dangerous. The further your foot is inserted the harder it is to get out of them in a true emergency.
 

KMR

Adventurer
Super Doody said:
In free ride or downhilling videos you'll see guys using bmx type flat pedals. Those will work in more technical terrain. But in terms of speed and efficiency, clip ins are the way to go.

I think you have pretty much summed it up perfectly here. For efficiency and x-country riding you can not beat the benefits of clip ins.
(clarification one more time, clip ins, mean mechanical clips, toe cages are out of the equation, they are down right dangerous and totally non functional, cut them off immediately)
However, as a general rule of thumb I refuse to ride with people who wear clips (there are a few exceptions:ylsmoke: ) but for the most part I find it dangerous and awkward for the majority of the riding I like to be engaged in. There is nothing worse than tearing down a hill and having the rider wipe out on a jump or slide corner because of limited foot movement and then being stuck, on the bike, in the trail, in a dangerous spot.
I will also go way out on a limb and say that for anything other than efficient, long distance, x-country ridding, clip ins teach you to be a bad rider. If you never learn even to bunny hop or tail whip without the assistance of the clips you wont be able to teach your body to take advantage of moving the bike effectively in technical trail sections.
However, this is like making the argument that our expo rigs are not effective rock crawlers, different functions for different tools. I don't like to expo on my bike, that is what the rig is for, I like to rock crawl and ride the more technical terrain.
:peepwall:
 
Last edited:

Christophe Noel

Expedition Leader
That combi that Kermit posted for Atacs and Sidi shoes is a killer combi. I've used Sidi shoes for years. 1987 in fact. Can't go wrong there.

Pedals are extremely personalized. Everyone eventually gravitates to a favorite for their own reasons. The more popular are Time, Crank Brother and Shimano SPD...in no particular order. I've been on the mid/upper end Crank Bros Egg Beaters for a couple years now and have really grown to like them. Prior to that I was an avid Time user and would have no problems going back to those. SPDs? Only in the higher end units for me.

One thing to note - as you get more skilled as a rider, you'll find you clip in and out less. In the beginning, a nervous new rider feels compelled to always dab a foot. As you improve, you'll do that less.

I'm also not sure I agree with the post above that flats make a better rider or that clipless make for a lesser skilled rider. Probably depends what your objectives are. In my opinion, riders of the last 10 years have terrible pedaling skills, poor fitment to the bike and in general....ride ugly. But, that's me.

And to finally get these terms down - ThomD had it right. The clip and strap set up is called a TOE CLIP. The modern step in systems are called CLIPLESS pedals since they don't use the actual clip over the toe. Not sure where the term clip ins or "clickers" came from.
 

MoGas

Central Scrutinizer
There are a couple reasons that Downhillers / Free Riders run flat pedals. Mainly they don't have much, if any climbing and they endo more than your standard mountain biker.

Me, I run some OG Shimano DX pedals on my hardtail.

101_1842.jpg

101_1841.jpg


Dave
 

MarcFJ60

Adventurer
This is real good discussion about the merits of clipless pedals (and I agree). But it seems the answer to his issue may be even easier. His whole reason for avoiding clipless pedals is to avoid cycling shoes so he can wear running shoes.

That brings up a new problem - a running shoe is generally a terrible cycling shoe. A good cycling shoe has a stiff shank to transfer your energy to the crank (and also makes for a bad running shoe). So if you decided to use toe clips, you would further disadvantage yourself by using squishy running shoes.

An earlier poster mentioned he would take up bowling if he couldn't have his clipless pedals. While I agree with his fondness for clipless, I could live with toe clips and a good cycling shoe. I could never go back to a non-cycling shoe.

I guess that's my long winded way of saying you need two pairs of shoes.

In terms of recommendations, I have Time Aliums on my Stump Comp. Not bad, but I'm not crazy about them. I have a difficult time getting out of them when I misplay an obstacle. At first, I chalked it up to practice, but after about 3 years (and nearly 20 years using clipless pedals in general) I've decided it's not me, it's the pedals. I preferred the Shimanos I had on my previous bike.
 

MoGas

Central Scrutinizer
All the Cylo-cross guys I know use clipless. They also have to run whilst portaging their bicycles past overland obstacles.

700px-Cyclocross_runup.JPG


portaging: noun
1. the act of carrying; carriage.
2. the carrying of boats, goods, etc., overland from one navigable water to another.
3. the route over which this is done.
4. the cost of carriage.
–verb (used without object) 5. to make a portage: On this stretch of the river, we have to portage for a mile.
–verb (used with object) 6. to carry (something) over a portage; make a portage with: We portaged our canoe around the rapids.
416px-Cyclo_doherty.jpg
 

Forum statistics

Threads
185,535
Messages
2,875,633
Members
224,922
Latest member
Randy Towles
Top