Thinking out of the box, verything is in a box!

Ozarker

Pontoon Admiral
Everything seems to come in a box and there isn't too much creativity going into campers. A box top may go up, it may fold out one time, tents are in a box and there are slide outs. All the basic ideas have been around for decades, some for centuries. That clam shell from down under almost gets to a more creative approach.

Why don't campers slide out from the rear, drop down to the ground with a fold out or up enclosure?

Why don't things expand upward, then fold out above the vehicle?

Why aren't there inflatable enclosures or part of an enclosure that can be inflated up or out?

Speaking of inflatable, why aren't there small cabin pods that could have inflatable pontoons or detachable amas (pomtoons) making a catamaran? Check out a boat named "Little Cindy".

Why can't a shelter deploy like an accordion with framing that slides our of a truck or trailer?

Why can't a box fold out in three directions and have a solid roof or expandable tentage?

Why can't a larger Ute shelter or a teepee come out of a truck?

In the Army we had expandable vans (5 tons) that folded and slid out on both sides, why is no one incorporating this old design that's proven and used for decades?

Why can't kitchens in a trailer slide out or swing out for outdoor cooking as well as cooking inside?

Why aren't trailers or truck pods not deigned with a section that could be dropped off for a base camp and keep another part with the vehicle, like sleeping quarters but dropping off the kitchen and bath and living space for the base camp? You don't need to haul everything around all the time.

Where are the trailers for larger adventure bikes and how do they connect with swing arm suspensions?

Why can't awnings incorporate water collection features?

HAMs, where are the repeaters in a drone to take your signal to altitude?

Where are the camera drones incorporated to recon trails ahead of you? The guy that built that monster for his daughter forgot such a command center.

Okay, I'll stop......seems there is too much thinking inside the box.....does everything have to be commercially driven in a box?

What ideas do you have that could be useful on any expedition or adventure trail, what could make life easier, improvements or out of the box ideas?
 
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red EOD veteran

Adventurer
Being able to unload the camper without assistance quickly.

Having the entire vehicle fit inside a shipping container to keep the cost down.
 

zelatore

Explorer
Just off the top of my head, some of these do exist. I seem to recall a VW van conversion with the extension that came out from the back. As for the pod that you can drop off at base camp then take off with the truck, how about the typical slide-in camper?

But I like you're line of thought here. Innovation starts with asking why not.

Some of your inflatable ideas could really have merit. Ever seen the floor of a HPIF dinghy? Surprisingly strong. How about the Nemo inflatable tent? That tech could possibly be used to create other things.
 

cwsqbm

Explorer
The simple answer to most any question of this type is "follow the money." Since none of the ideas are really new, there reason you don't see many of them mass produced is that those with the will to build things think they can make more money doing something else. If you really want it, build it yourself and then you might see why its not mass-produced (or you might have a new business like the XP Camper). I've long since come to terms with my ideal camper not being what others would want.
 

Ozarker

Pontoon Admiral
CWSQMB,yes, that's what I meant by being commercially driven, what happened to innovation of the individual builder, seems were still thinking in the box building similar things as may be purchased.

Zelatore, I've seen that or pictures of it, as I recall the bed extend out the back. Nope, I'm retired and not going back

Red EOD, I agree, while things could be more complex they should be easily used, reliable and not so time consuming as you'd be getting soaked in the rain trying to get shelter. It's nice if you can set things up from inside.
BTW EOD, glad I don't have your auto insurance premiums, you must have a fleet policy!

A pod can be dropped quickly with a tilt bed.

There were some tent trailers in the 60s where the top folded off to the side baking the camper twice as wide and a tent lifted over the trailer and floor. The Apache was similar, the DeVille was the top of the line but was limited in production. That same folding top over concept could go out the backend of a truck or trailer.

I'd do an inflatable shelter, they make them, yes that would take some $$$$$$$.

A small inflatable annex might not be bad. Pontoons aren't difficult, about 2to3 K each from Jack's Plastic Welding, depending on size.

I've thought about tracks on the bed rail of the pickup with ribs like a duce and a half (tubular not wood) that slide back to the tailgate and collapse forward, several ways to snap it in place against the cab or fit in a container so you could have a camper top when you wanted one and otherwise it would be out of the way.

I'm settling somewhat on doing my utility trailer with sides and a front leaving the back open for the bike, it tilts and has a ramp. The sides could fold down from the up position outside and down like the flip jack, but larger. An upper roof fame would be out of the way and could hold tentage up or carry panels on top to put in place (panels would take more time than I like, but doable to have a combination of hard top, sides and tentage. Could have a second story. Still on the drawing board of my mind.

You hard core types need to get a co-driver that can fly a drone and have the monitor inside....how cool!

An inside-outside kitchen isn't rocket science.

I have nothing against boxes, the right shape and size they're pretty efficient.

Any ideas that you're willing to share?
 

red EOD veteran

Adventurer
Haha I only have 2 vehicles currently (3 with my company truck), the others in the list are ones I don't have anymore.

Thinking outside of the box can make for some great ideas. With the pontoons idea why not put a pair of inflatable pontoons on the smaller expedition vehicles for deep river crossings with a propeller thats driven off of the vehicles drivetrain?
 

Ozarker

Pontoon Admiral
Some folks from Cuba tied inner tubes around a pickup truck and had a OB on the back, went from Cuba to the US. I saw a pic and that was the story.
In WWII, tanks were floated with a frame around them with a canvas hull.
Inflatable tubes are made with reinforced D rings, wouldn't be a problem floating a vehicle really. The smaller the better as you'd have to roll the tubs up and carry them.
A PTO could be fabricated, a trolling motor might be rigged easier.
This has been done, don't know why, but it has.
There was also a trailer with pontoons. The RV or vehicle pulls on the trailer and there discs the front tires rested on, you could turn the barge by steering inside the vehicle. To top that there is an amphibious Class A. If you drive an old VW
bug, just clog up the heater vents inside, put flex pipe on the exhaust and drive on in, they float!

Keep think'n, might be a better way to do something.
 

motas

Adventurer
I think a lot of these ideas are great in certain situations such as a 5 tonne army truck with numerous people to assist in setup thats been designed from nothing. But the added weight and complexity of a huge amount of expandable space just isnt that practical on a modified vehicle with only a couple of people. The further up and out from the chassis the more strength you need to support the same weight. to support one person at a metre high and 2 metres off the chassis adds way more weight than right on top of the chassis. Inflatable areas would be awesome when you arrive but I doubt theyd be as easy to pack back up and require constant inflation to stay up. I think there is a small limit on the amojnt of pop outs/ups without a very very smart design.
http://youtu.be/MgTZcP02syU
This is a design ive been working on that goes up and out, it is designed so the main roof lifts and supports the bed cover at the same time. I plan on havjng it electrically lifted then just walk in and push the bed out. I am also planning on designing an inside outside kitchen and a few more pop out things.I do like some of your ideas though and might integrate a few more of them in. I do agree though there seems to be a lack of true innovation in campers (excluding a few really cool designs).
 

Ozarker

Pontoon Admiral
Yes, that's a good design as a hard sided popup. Several popups are similar with fold out beds on both sides with tenatge.
I used an expandable 5 ton in the Army, I could set it up by myself in less than 10 minutes easily. The walls crank out, floor folds down sides fold out from the inside of the outer wall, I'd fold the ceiling up and support it with a pole (it was designed as a 2 man job) and then had to crank the outer wall back in a bit to lock it up.

Electric drives would be nice, I'd have a manual backup as well in keeping with Murphy's Law.
In kitchens there are some simple things over looked today. Setting the sink in the counter so that a cutting board fits on to of the sink and flush with the counter makes a good cutting area, easy to scrape a mess into the sink, it can be lifted out when you need the sink. I'd like to see more divided drawers, tilt out storage for spices under the front of the stove, grey water filtering for reuse for toilet and non-consumable use. Water sprayer at the sink that can reach a pot on the stove. A Paper towel dispenser is always an after thought, build one in under a counter to rip off a towel as needed. Under counter soap dispenser at the sink. More storage compartments under the sink, bottom shelf for yukie stuff like wet SOS pads, bar soap, and slide out trash bag.

I mentioned inside/outside kitchens, the wall can fold down and the kitchen counter can slide out and drop down to a lower level then pivot 90 degrees out or simply stay next to the outer vehicle wall. A Fridge can slide out either direction.

I'd like to see some popup storage next to or at the head of the bed, stealthy storage box could hold things from Kleenex to your auto pistol and remain as shelf space or more space to fluff your pillow. Speaking of bed, how well do those heated mattresses work?
In closets I'd like to have thin dividers slide into rabbited sides, they can serve as drawers sliding out a bit to get a shirt or pair of jeans without disturbing a stack of clothes.

I hate making the bed, usually don't, but putting the bed tightly against a wall makes it harder to do, leave a few inches of space. Fold out cup/drink holders near the bed are nice too. Those tilting hospital bed tables with storage under the top are a great idea. Similar tables can swing down off and rotate in front of you. (I'm all about living in bed, but no bedpans, LOL)

With bench seating a tray can fold out and up from underneath providing a TV tray or desk surface, the same thing could go near the bed. While you can have a popup or pop down flat screen, I can do without that for the $$$. Fold down DVD might be nice over the bed.

Blackout lights inside for stealth camping so light is not emitted opening a window or door. I wish every RV had driving blackout lights, especially those late comers shining headlights in your bedroom as they drive by.

Awnings I believe should be water collectors, no rocket science there. If you have water hookups a mister tube keeps you much cooler on hot days outside under the awning. Put the mister tubing on the outside the awning, away from the vehicle, as it's the breeze that carries the mist over you, small fans might help.

As to storage compartments and hidden storage, be careful with laws pertaining to hidden compartments on or in vehicles, thanks to our drug smugglers, states and other countries have strict laws that may have you tagged as a smuggler just for having hidden compartments!

So, what else did you have in mind? :)
 

NeverEnough

Adventurer
Everything seems to come in a box and there isn't too much creativity going into campers. A box top may go up, it may fold out one time, tents are in a box and there are slide outs. All the basic ideas have been around for decades, some for centuries. That clam shell from down under almost gets to a more creative approach.

Why don't campers slide out from the rear, drop down to the ground with a fold out or up enclosure?

Why don't things expand upward, then fold out above the vehicle?

Why aren't there inflatable enclosures or part of an enclosure that can be inflated up or out?

Speaking of inflatable, why aren't there small cabin pods that could have inflatable pontoons or detachable amas (pomtoons) making a catamaran? Check out a boat named "Little Cindy".

Why can't a shelter deploy like an accordion with framing that slides our of a truck or trailer?

Why can't a box fold out in three directions and have a solid roof or expandable tentage?

Why can't a larger Ute shelter or a teepee come out of a truck?

In the Army we had expandable vans (5 tons) that folded and slid out on both sides, why is no one incorporating this old design that's proven and used for decades?

Why can't kitchens in a trailer slide out or swing out for outdoor cooking as well as cooking inside?

Why aren't trailers or truck pods not deigned with a section that could be dropped off for a base camp and keep another part with the vehicle, like sleeping quarters but dropping off the kitchen and bath and living space for the base camp? You don't need to haul everything around all the time.

Where are the trailers for larger adventure bikes and how do they connect with swing arm suspensions?

Why can't awnings incorporate water collection features?

HAMs, where are the repeaters in a drone to take your signal to altitude?

Where are the camera drones incorporated to recon trails ahead of you? The guy that built that monster for his daughter forgot such a command center.

Okay, I'll stop......seems there is too much thinking inside the box.....does everything have to be commercially driven in a box?

What ideas do you have that could be useful on any expedition or adventure trail, what could make life easier, improvements or out of the box ideas?

All fun ideas, and I've done computer modeling on most of them. And my camper does indeed slide 9' out the rear, then pop out 3' on each side, in addition to the cabover pop-up with a fold-down wall. So having faced the challenge of turning some of these concepts into reality, and living with the outcome, has taught me a few things:

1. As much as a I love to look at and touch a curved surface, the box remains the most efficient shape for use of volume. So if you want to cram a lot of stuff in the most compact shape possible, the box is the way to go.
2. Sliding, rotating, folding, poping up and out- anything that moves increases the difficulty and cost of the build by several orders of magnitude, in addition to adding to total cost of ownership over time and significantly increased opportunity for part/component failure.
3. Designing, and even building, expandable shelters is not that difficult, and there are plenty of proven ways to do it. However, combining and highly expandable volume with all the "stuff" (galley, sleeping, sitting, storage, heating, plumbing, wiring) is very difficult.

My favorite super-compact expandable "living quarters" can fit into my backpack or my motorcycle side cases, is under 15lbs, isn't square, and takes less than 10 minutes to deploy. It's my tent, stove, sleeping bag,water filter, and other essentials.

By contrast, my camper weighs 27,000 lbs, gets 8-9 miles to the gallon, and takes 20 minutes to setup! Sometimes I wonder what I was thinking- until I use the sweet galley, or plush bathroom, or sit with my whole family at the dining table while it pours rain outside- and let's not forget sleeping in a decent bed.

My point is that we invest in "campers" for comfort and convenience. As such, most people want the most simple, easy, and cheapest way to emulate the comforts of home while on the road. I love my rig, but simple, easy, and cheap do not apply. I just happen to enjoy trying to do funky stuff that hasn't been done before.
 

Ozarker

Pontoon Admiral
NE, I agree, all valid points and a tent isn't that bad, especially one with a floor, I've never had A/C in just a tent and that is required for me, I'm done roughing it. Post up your rig! Sounds like it's right down the thoughts outlined here.

I really didn't mean a box wasn't the best design, just expanding on conventional thinking.

Costs and materials certainly are or can be an issue, you can't flip a wall out unless there is another wall to keep everything enclosed.

There are many small amenities that can be improved or added without much cost or increasing set up time. Those ideas might be advanced and implemented as well. There are some nice motorcycle trailers that really open up too and larger ones seem possible.
 

NeverEnough

Adventurer
Post up your rig! Sounds like it's right down the thoughts outlined here.

So you don't have to read through a gazillion pages:

Driving Mode
CA_06221408464373-M.jpg


Camping Mode
CA_08221415033276-M.jpg


And there's all sorts of folding, rotating, sliding stuff inside, as well as the cool motorcycle lift on the back, but you can check out the build thread for that stuff.
 

red EOD veteran

Adventurer
Similar concept to my plans with the old deuce and a half. Will be using a winch and ramps to load/unload the camper as wanted.

Ability to dump a black tank without touching it, that would be nice. No cassette or hose, just pull a lever or valve and away it goes.

"Sent from Serenity, passing through reaver territory"
 

Ozarker

Pontoon Admiral
Neverenough, that is Boss! Love it, thanks as that's out of the box! Interior pics? And a trailer to boot!

Red, I don't know much about black water tanks, I wasn't the one who emptied it. I thought there was a lever operated valve to open to dump, an inlet for water to flush from a clean connection. Seems it's messing with the hose that's the messy part putting it back in a PVC pipe to carry it. I've been wondering about that. Just thought when the time comes to design the bathroom I'd have the RV dealer give input.
 

LovinPSDs

Adventurer
I've often wondered why you couldn't take a similar design to a pop-up camper, build it to the back of 1 ton truck and have enough folding out space for the whole family. Using high end tenting material would be required.. it would also not give you a true hard roof over your head....


Ozarker, I like the way you are thinking, really when I first come on here a Flip Pac seems like one of the coolest and most useful designs. But the cost issue strikes again... great concept, but not executed as well as it could be.
 

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