Thinking about making the switch to a van...

[sixstringsteve]

Ok, a little background. I cut my teeth rockcrawling toyotas. But now I'm at the point where I'm ready to move away from hardcore rock crawling, but I still want to go on fun trips that require 4x4 and stil have a little bit of a challenge to them. I live in Utah and I've seen some 4x4 vans make other rockcrawlers look silly out in Moab.

Vanaconda was the beast that started putting the van ideas into my head (I'm sure I'm not the only one).

I currently own a '01 4-door tacoma, ifs, 35's, and rear locker. It's a great rig, and there's nothing wrong with it, but I have ADD, and I'm always spicing life up with new challenges/ideas. I'd love the extra room with a van, especially if I could build a sleeping platform for it.

Those of you that have 4x4 vans, can you help me put some of my concerns to rest? I'm having a hard time knowing if I want a 4x4 van for the cool factor, or if it'd really be the right rig for me.

Purpose of the rig: I know "expedition" is a loose term and means something different for everybody, but here's what I'm looking for in a rig: explore remote trails that aren't totally sketchy for a van (but still more than a gravel road), mtb transport vehicle, snowboarding vehicle, daily driver when the weather gets nasty, weekend camping vehicle, driving across the country to explore more of the USA (on and off road) vehicle. I love the outdoors, and I'm still going to camp in a tent a lot but it'd sure be cool to have the option of a sleeping platform in the back if the weather got nasty. I can't ever seeing myself using a pop-up trailer or an RV, that's a little too domesticated for me.

I'm never going to do the baja, serengeti, or australia, and I'll never leave the country in it, and I probably won't be out for more than 3 days at a time. I go camping with my wife and dog, no kids yet, but hoping for kids soon. Does a 4x4 van sound like it'll fit the bill?

I was thinking of a 7.3L Ford E350 with the regular cab size, 8" lift, 37s, ujoint 4x4 conversion, etc. Budget would be what I could sell my truck for. ($14k)

Here are my questions for those that have vans (I'm mainly talking full size vans).

1) they look top-heavy. Are they? How do they handle off-road and on-road?
2) are they noisy inside? I imagine the sheetmetal of a cargo van makes the ride noisy. Especially in a diesel, which I'm planning on.
3) how are they for daily driving?
4) is the wheelbase so long that it makes anything more than a gravel road impossible? I've seen Chris' video with vanaconda, just wondering if I need 37s to get on a fun trail.
5) how are they on cross-country trips for hundreds of miles?
6) what do you miss about your old rig?
7) what do you love about the van?
8) what are the limitations with a van? Have these "limitations" held you back from doing what you wanted in your rig?
9) is it possible to add windows to the cargo vans?
10) anything else you've learned that might be helpful to me?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Stumpalump]

1 Top heavy? No it's heavy all over.
2 Yes they are noisy but my V10 is not as bad. I love the V10.
3 Terrible as a daily driver.
4 They wheel and clear obsticals fine but they are big. No small trails.
5 They are great on the road but it's still a big truck.
6 I kept my old rig. It's a built jeep and I have a daily driver.
7 I can sleep in it and use it for a truck to hual and tow.
8 Gas milage and size are the limitations.
9 There are all kinds of RV and marine windows and things to add. I thought I would do that so wait to see if you need windows. It's still camping not a hotel.
10 I learned to wish I had more time to use it.

 

[sixstringsteve]

thanks stumpalump!

 

[Sheep Shagger]

1) they look top-heavy. Are they? How do they handle off-road and on-road?
2) are they noisy inside? I imagine the sheetmetal of a cargo van makes the ride noisy. Especially in a diesel, which I'm planning on.
3) how are they for daily driving?
4) is the wheelbase so long that it makes anything more than a gravel road impossible? I've seen Chris' video with vanaconda, just wondering if I need 37s to get on a fun trail.
5) how are they on cross-country trips for hundreds of miles?
6) what do you miss about your old rig?
7) what do you love about the van?
8) what are the limitations with a van? Have these "limitations" held you back from doing what you wanted in your rig?
9) is it possible to add windows to the cargo vans?
10) anything else you've learned that might be helpful to me?

Thanks for your help!

First off, Do it, you won't regret it. My only regret is not doing Chris, UJoint conversion and buying a Quigley since I got a great price on one.

1) No, not unless you do a pop-top or something, and even then not much more than normal. The std top is just cheap sheet metal and re-reinforcement.
2) Hell yes. But easily soundproofed. I have truck bedliner done throughout, Dynamat & covered ply on the walls, dynomat on doghouse, carpet + underlay, that makes it diesel truck quiet. I need to do the roof though, as you can hear the wind noise from the roof-rack in the back.
3) Fine as long as you don't park undercover. My wife takes it over my truck all the time when I'm working on her car.
4) No. Check out dsw4x4 (coloradocampervan) moab trip. That will give you very detailed idea of what 33's on a van can do since I assume you know the Moab trails inside out.
5) Great. I have run mine for many 2k miles straight through trips (each direction) just to get to places for a dirtbike or camping trip.
6) Nothing.
7) Versatility, absolutely the most versatile vehicle I have ever owned.
8) MPG at the speeds I want to run and range. I like running 80~85 and my MPG is in the 10's at that speed. I have 4.10's, and RPM is quite high, that's what kills MPG. I thought about going 3.55's, but I'm trying to work out if GearVendors overdive can be fitted instead. Looks like I'll have to crush the tank a little to do that. I'm going to add a second tank from a cut-away van (behind the axle) to increase range. But as yet have not decided on how to fill it neatly.
9) Yes it's easy and very cheap to get one. To get one that fit's the lines of the panel like the wagon van, is a lot harder. This is my next project.
10) 6.0 Diesel in a van seems rto be a lot different to the truck in reliability due to less HP and Torque, so I wouldn't rule out a 6.0 if you find one that's been looked after.
Doing if for 14k isn't going to happen unless you find something already converted and cheap. Buy the van and do it slowly, finding parts as you go for the conversion, but it's still going to cost you probably 6~8k just for the conversion if you fine a LOT of good deals on used parts.

 

[sixstringsteve]

10) 6.0 Diesel in a van seems rto be a lot different to the truck in reliability due to less HP and Torque, so I wouldn't rule out a 6.0 if you find one that's been looked after.

Thanks Sheep Shagger

how are the 6.0s vs the 7.3s for reliability in the vans? How are they different than the trucks? Are they still turbocharged?

Doing if for 14k isn't going to happen unless you find something already converted and cheap. Buy the van and do it slowly, finding parts as you go for the conversion, but it's still going to cost you probably 6~8k just for the conversion if you fine a LOT of good deals on used parts.

Dang, I was afraid of that. I don't mind buying a van with 120k miles on it. Even if parts cost $8k, that'd give me $6k to spend on a van. I think I could probably find one for $6k. This is all great food for thought, thanks.

 

[dsw4x4]

Sixstring,
Vans rock!! I truly believe that if ford or chevy put as much effort into selling/building 4x4 vans for the public they would sell like trucks think of it like a king ranch edition 4x4 van, people would buy them.
For what you want a van is a perfect vehicle. I bought my first 2 wheel drive for 1100 dollars and have never owned a truck since then. I agree with what everyone has said but I will give you my 2 cents anyway.
1) they look top-heavy. Compared to a hummer they are but like any tricked out 4by drive it like it is meant to be driven and it will never be an issue. I have two box style broncos one is a trail bronco that handles awsome on the road and ok on the trail it does not feel top heavy at all, my crawler feels like the motor is mounted on the roof but flexes and articulates like crazy. Quiglys need a spring change and they drive better than a stock 2wd van even with 4 inches of lift.
2) are they noisy inside? Yes if they are a stock cargo van. Properly insulated they are diesel truck quiet if not quieter. We sell and install quiet ride. Bang for the buck it rocks a full kit makes a giant differences in interior comfort.
3) how are they for daily driving? Way better than driving a 4door long bed pick up not nearly as fun as driving 500 horse sports car.
4) is the wheelbase so long that it makes anything more than a gravel road impossible? Nope the wheel base is really close to a long bed regular cab truck if it can fit my van can fit. I drag the rear end every now and again but it actually suprises more on how much I do not drag it.
5) how are they on cross-country trips for hundreds of miles? They rock step into the back make a sandwich, grab a drink, take a nap, you name it it can be done in a van!!
6) what do you miss about your old rig? Um this where I have a slight issue (some call it a problem I call it a collector) I do not get rid of old rigs they are to much fun.
7) what do you love about the van? Everything it is the leatherman of vehicles.
8) what are the limitations with a van? Have these "limitations" held you back from doing what you wanted in your rig? My only limitation is really and truly trails that I really only have business being on with a full rock rig other than that I will solo attempt just about anything in the van. Narrow sections occasionally get me in a bind.

9) is it possible to add windows to the cargo vans? Yes their are all kinds of options
10) anything else you've learned that might be helpful to me?
Buying a van be very very patient good deals can be had for cheap. Do your research and be willing to travel for it the are rare and hard to find. I see no reason you could not duild one yourself and stay close to your budget.
Good luck.
Derek

 

[RocKrawler]

I cant answer all your questions, but I can tell you that having had other full size vehicles on the trail, as long as you arent building it for a rock crawler, a full size will suprise you where it can go on the trails. I too did the rock crawling thing with Toyotas (easy when working for All Pro 5 years) and have run trails up to and including the Hammers in Johnson Valley with my truggy on 38's, ARB locked both ends and geared transfer cases running 244:1 in double low range - being past that point and wanting a vehicle I can explore with the family the van was my logical choice. As the other more knowledgable guys said here, wait for the deal. Chris from u-joint was helping me look ad emailing me pics and ads from around the country & I feel I got lucky finding a 7.3L diesel RB for $5K about 100 miles away, doing some talking with the owner and pointing out its little faults got the price down to $3K and I have never looked back. It runs easily as good with 280K miles as my F250 I sold 2 years ago with $150K. If its been taken care of the 7.3 is bulletproof with correct maintenance. I'm still not sold on the 6.0, know way to many people with issues no matter what the year on pickups & wasnt willing to risk it on the van which is tougher to work on with the cramped engine compartment. Is it perfect? No, but I intend to use it, not enter it in truck shows, so the scratch or door ding is inevitable anyway (I call it pre-seasoned) and I can start the build sooner because of no payments. The toughest thing about the choice for me it fighting between wanting 8" and 37's and realizing it isnt really necessary for what I intend to do - building other peoples trucks for a living does that to a guy, you see Chris' truck pimpin' 38's and cherry paint you dont want to look like the short dude with the combover at the other end of the lot. Having had trucks cool enough to grace magazines makes a guy want to build another just as cool - but then driving a magazine truck on the trail always causes stress because you dont want to hurt it, especially when its double the size! Learning to be realistic with intended use and well thought out build plans will get me to my goal, but its definitely an internal struggle right now.

 

[Sheep Shagger]

Thanks Sheep Shagger

how are the 6.0s vs the 7.3s for reliability in the vans? How are they different than the trucks? Are they still turbocharged?

6.0 is Turbo and inter-cooled, that's the one thing that put me off on the 7.3 was no inter-cooler. 6.0 in a van makes 75 less hp than the truck, simply due to the tune ford program the ECU with. Turbo is the same as the truck and so is the intake system (I read some BS on the net that the van intake is less volume that the truck, that's incorrect). But the intercooler and most accessory rads are smaller than the truck.
I have never heard of head issues on the 6.0 van like you hear about on the truck, ERG failures are just as common though, but that's a simple $500 fix from any PSD shop. 2004 seems to be the year you don't want, something to do with an oil pump that's a bad design and really difficult to get to.

Dang, I was afraid of that. I don't mind buying a van with 120k miles on it. Even if parts cost $8k, that'd give me $6k to spend on a van. I think I could probably find one for $6k. This is all great food for thought, thanks.

Chris would be the person to talk to, since he has done so many. When I was looking, I priced up "what I would like", and it was in the $14k range for the conversion. But 6k good condition vans are out there, so it probably could be done.

 

[sixstringsteve]

great responses everybody. do the vans have the same tranny problems that the auto trucks had?

 

[Saline]

great responses everybody. do the vans have the same tranny problems that the auto trucks had?

The tranny in the newer 6.0L is stout and has no issues. Apparently they did initially in early 2004 but a recall was done to fix it.

BTW, I have a 2004 PSD 6.0L SMB4x4 and love it.

 

[dsw4x4]

I am not really aware of many transmission problems I would assume if they do they are the same as a truck. If you put gobs of hp to one you better beef the tranny accordingly. My stock tranny is starting to slip but it has 185k on it and the last 30k have either been trails in the mountains or pulling a boat or bronco or van on 18 foot float usually with two motorcycles in the back through the mountains. I do have a tuner but I only run it on tow to tighten up the tranny and give me a little better push through the mountains. I pretty regulary find 7.3 quiglys with between 100 and 150k for between 10 and 15 grand that will keep you in your budget doing your interior. I also find 7.3 cargos 2wd for around 5 to 10k that would leave you 4 to do your ujoint conversion. I would say it can be done on your budget either way you just have to be patient and willing to travel. I was bent on converting my old van to 4wd when the body was rusted out at the mounts I went on a mad hunt for a van and found mine for 10k to me at that price it is not worth doing the conversion my self.
Derek

 

[nely]

I think it can be done. But to keep the costs down how much of this can you do yourself? Ill do almost everything except rebuild my trans and tcase, drivelines and shorten my tank. since I havent done them b4 or feel safe welding a fuel tank. But to learn I might give the rebuilding a shot.
My total for my 4x4 van parts right now is $6650... Including my van.
I have a 96 psd club wagon, 6inch ujoint kit, 04 dana 60 axle with new calipers and rotors, nv231 and bilstein 5125 shocks. Things I still need are rims, 35 tires, drivelines, fuel tank shortened, trans converted to 4x4, tcase gone thru adapters or if possible a sterling rear. I think i can be under the 10k mark. You gotta just scoure for the deals. I pulled my tcase form a junkyard on half off day. Axle was from craigslist, shocks are new from 4wheel parts.
It also depends how fast you need it. Ive been collecting parts for about a year now so its a slow go process. But I also dont have 14k from a vehicle sale. I sold my 4runner just to buy the whole ujoint kit and piece my build when cash allows. But ill be installing the lift in about 2 weeks.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

 

[ujoint]

You already know that you want a 4x4 van!!!!! Everyone has made excellent points, and we're ready to see a van in your driveway.

 

[Meekerfam]

I can see your points. I would tell you to get a 91-95 E250-E350. you can get one cheap 2x4 and do every thing you want. keep the truck for 4x4 just add a tow bar 2 it. I run An 86 E350 with mild lift. goes lots more places than reg vans. sleep 4+ with add on tent. have 110 power and lots of freshwater. use it as a tow vehicle or carrier for motorcycle on a rack behind it (in the 2" receiver) Vans can do so much. 4x4 upgrade later when money allows.

if you have considered getting a van, then you have already chosen! get one, build, build, build and enjoy what we all have.

 

[sixstringsteve]

You already know that you want a 4x4 van!!!!! Everyone has made excellent points, and we're ready to see a van in your driveway.

Yeah, I'm ready too. Looks like it's time to sell the taco and build up a van next. Thanks for the help everyone.