The bigger the truck, the greater the (misplaced?) concern about payload?
- Thread starter BlueLabelDrinker
- Start date
Stickers....they don't weigh much.
calicamper
Expedition Leader
Stealth Overlander has always been a thing. Those of us doing it are just good at it and never get called out by SEMA or articles on the front cover.?
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DRAX
Active member
Oh, she's never told she can't go because she would make the truck overweight.
My point for my situation was simply that I've done work to be able to handle the load even though it doesn't change the sticker on the truck. People just have to make a judgement call and some people just have really poor judgement because they don't know any better. Ignorance is bliss, but for some reason people think dragging ass is normal/acceptable and think nothing of it. I don't get it. Well, I do get it. Most of those people were told by dealers they can "do that no problem" and they believed it, so rather than trusting what their eyes tell them they just tell themselves the dealer said it was OK so it must be OK. That's life in the travel trailer world, anyway.For overlanding...I dunno. My best guess is what I said before, perhaps many of them think payload = bad capacity rather than the total capacity of the truck.
calicamper
Expedition Leader
Apparently 4runners are magical and passengers weigh nothing there for have no impact on load capacity ??— per recent 4runner owner diatribe on another OPs thread asking for vehicle ideas for a full time Airstream plan.Oh, she's never told she can't go because she would make the truck overweight.
For overlanding...I dunno. My best guess is what I said before, perhaps many of them think payload = bad capacity rather than the total capacity of the truck.
DRAX
Active member
One of the problems is that weight ratings for vehicles in the US can be quite arbitrary and a lot of the GVWRs are limited due to EPA/federal classifications that place vehicles in a class based on GVWR, this affects CAFE requirements as well as registration/taxes, etc. The difference between GVWR and the sum of GAWRs could be for any number of reasons that we just don't know about since GVWR takes into account power, braking, chassis/frame, etc. as well as the classifications I mentioned. Different countries have different systems/methods/requirements for determining weight ratings, and this is something that was brought up recently on another forum. A number of trucks are "global" with virtually no physical or mechanical differences. The perfect example of this is the Chevrolet Colorado (GMC Canyon) vs the Holden Colorado sold in Australia. Same chassis, same drivetrain. The Holden Colorado has a payload capacity ranging from 1007 to 1085kg or 2,220LB to 2,392LB. In the US the max payload of these trucks is around the 1,500LB mark with many of the higher, non-ZR2 trims having closer to 1,300LB. That's basically 1,000LB more for the Holden than what the trucks are rated for here in North America and I suspect that is mostly to do with regulations and classifications, not technical limitations with the truck itself.
But, we don't know for sure so all we can do is speculate and do our best to be safe and operate within the known limits.
calicamper
Expedition Leader
Different countries also have different crash testing standards. A US spec Tacoma, GM Canyon, Ford Ranger gets a different frame which definitely has a crash fuse in the frame at the back of the cab. Not counting suspension differences which definitely change load carrying ability. The frames on these trucks elsewhere are different and definitely don’t bend at the bed/cab in an accident or when over loaded.
Commuting in LA I’ll take a US spec truck over the Australian cousin. Get hit from behind by a Prius doing 85 driverwatching onlyfans porn, the US truck is definitely the top choice. Need to haul 2000lbs of animal feed the Australian cousin is the top choice ?
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UglyViking
Well-known member
The "right thing to do" starts to become a pretty grey zone pretty fast, considering that we all have slightly different moral guidance.
For me, I look at the GAWR, and say "Am I under that number? Ok I'm good.", for some, that is not the right thing to do, because a sticker says no. For others, their GAWRs mean nothing and they will pull more weight than should be on a SRW 3500 because "truck can handle it". They probably also feel like it's a fine/right thing to do.
Technically speaking, that's why we have the sticker, so there is no grey zone. That said, even DOT doesn't go by the payload number, they go by tire and GAWR numbers. So, for my, since the people enforcing the law don't care about it, then I don't either.
I'm not lying to myself either. You may feel that way, completely fine, but I absolutely don't.
I think the other major thing, is how far over payload are we talking about here. 10%? 20%? 100%? To pretend there is no difference is a bit unrealistic I feel.
In all fairness, and in discussion of the payload thing including half ton trucks, consider this. I looked in the door jam of my 04 F150, it is an XLT Supercab 4x4, with the bench seat, column shift auto and floor shift T-case.
My door sticker lists GVWR at 7950lbs. With the factory tires of 235/75R17 with no discernable load rating. I have coil spring boosters and Ride Rite air bags on the truck, as well as load range E 33x12.50/17 tires. I figure difference in weight between stock, and leveling strut lifted and as it sits modded with the aftermarket bumper and winch I believe the truck gained 300lbs.
The door jam weight is and sorry I don't have the truck here as it is getting an engine swap so I am going from memory, but it is just a shave over 5200lbs. So let's assume a curb weight of 5500lbs, that leaves me with payload of 2450lbs in stock trim but we are not in stock trim. Adding a light slide in pop up and my fat butt will add 1300 lbs to the whole thing.
With additional gear, fuel, water, food, supplies etc... if I am even 10% overweight, I am confindent I am well within the actual engineering tolerances of the truck. PLUS I am WAY more than comfortable with the tires, I would be on a 3/4 ton with this rubber...
Now I know keep the center of gravit as low as I can, keep it stable, keep the brakes happy, keep the tranny cool blah blah blah.
Considering I have run through the cascade mountain passes in a split window hippie van loaded with teenagers, tents and beer when I was young, I REALLY am not worried I am travelling unsafe.
My door sticker lists GVWR at 7950lbs. With the factory tires of 235/75R17 with no discernable load rating. I have coil spring boosters and Ride Rite air bags on the truck, as well as load range E 33x12.50/17 tires. I figure difference in weight between stock, and leveling strut lifted and as it sits modded with the aftermarket bumper and winch I believe the truck gained 300lbs.
The door jam weight is and sorry I don't have the truck here as it is getting an engine swap so I am going from memory, but it is just a shave over 5200lbs. So let's assume a curb weight of 5500lbs, that leaves me with payload of 2450lbs in stock trim but we are not in stock trim. Adding a light slide in pop up and my fat butt will add 1300 lbs to the whole thing.
With additional gear, fuel, water, food, supplies etc... if I am even 10% overweight, I am confindent I am well within the actual engineering tolerances of the truck. PLUS I am WAY more than comfortable with the tires, I would be on a 3/4 ton with this rubber...
Now I know keep the center of gravit as low as I can, keep it stable, keep the brakes happy, keep the tranny cool blah blah blah.
Considering I have run through the cascade mountain passes in a split window hippie van loaded with teenagers, tents and beer when I was young, I REALLY am not worried I am travelling unsafe.
nickw
Adventurer
They are completely different numbers (GA vs GV)....if you payload is 1500 lbs, the truck is not designed to carry 1500 lbs over the front axle even though you would be within payload figures, hence your front GAWR # limiting that....same goes for back, they are not meant to be added together. It's to limit payload placement in the vehicle.
calicamper
Expedition Leader
Pretty much every truck and SUV maxes out RAWR before reaching max gross weight when your hauling stuff or trailers. The bandaid weight distribution hitches can only lever so much by forcing the trailer and truck to act as a single stiff platform before you run into trailer axle rating issues, frame strength issues and thats only good on flat highway stuff. Cross through a steep driveway entrance and bang you can fold your trailer frame like a cheap starbucks straw.
Grasslakeron
Explorer
I believe in the 75% rule. Never load greater then 75% of your payload rating, or pull greater then 75% of your max towing. I bought greater then what I needed and personally have better piece of mind. When I was younger, I bought a truck that was 6250 gvw......and quicky out grew it. Now I own one at 11,800 gvw and 27,500 gcvw. Some of you may quote the SAE J towing numbers as max, but my 7.3 gas hits well above it's weight class. I had no idea it did when I bought it and just makes me that much happier. Better to have and not need it, then need it and not have it.
RAM5500 CAMPERTHING
OG Portal Member #183
Simple Answer
Most of us with HD trucks have seen the light with the smaller ones, and the issues that arise from being overloaded so we pay much more attention to it now so it doesnt happen again.
Myself personally, i had a 2014 Tundra with a FWC Hawk and fell into their "Just add airbags, you'll be fine bro" nonsense. I knew better, but had been a Yota guy my entire life.
In 50k mileage of usage, i went through 3 sets of rotors, 2 sets of control arm bushings, and 1 set of steering rack bushings. All due to being overweight.
Anyone trying to argue against the importance of weight ratings and that subscribes to the "Just add airbags you'll be fine bro" mentality is quickly added to my ignore list as trying to reason with them is the equivalent of banging my head into a wall.
As that nice lady once said on the internet "I aint got time Fo Dat"
Most of us with HD trucks have seen the light with the smaller ones, and the issues that arise from being overloaded so we pay much more attention to it now so it doesnt happen again.
Myself personally, i had a 2014 Tundra with a FWC Hawk and fell into their "Just add airbags, you'll be fine bro" nonsense. I knew better, but had been a Yota guy my entire life.
In 50k mileage of usage, i went through 3 sets of rotors, 2 sets of control arm bushings, and 1 set of steering rack bushings. All due to being overweight.
Anyone trying to argue against the importance of weight ratings and that subscribes to the "Just add airbags you'll be fine bro" mentality is quickly added to my ignore list as trying to reason with them is the equivalent of banging my head into a wall.
As that nice lady once said on the internet "I aint got time Fo Dat"