Also considering the same options, so understanding your experiences would help much in making the best decision. Please elaborate on the reasons you prefer the Fuso over the E-series. Thank you,
Switching from Ford E-Series to FC/cabover (like Sportsmobile to Earthcruiser 4x4)?
- Thread starter geoffff
- Start date
geoffff
Observer
I just posted a couple write-ups from my recent EarthCruiser / Fuso test drive:
Five very important aspects of expedition vehicle ownership are absent from this discussion: wheelbase, weight, length, height and GVWR. The last thing on anybody’s list should be horsepower or freeway speed. Don’t forget our beloved legacy Unimogs only came with only 120 HP.
I’d advise anybody looking at one of these vehicles to be very conscience of wheelbase length. The longer the wheelbase, the more apt you are got get high centered off road. The ER is a beautiful truck, but lordy, it’s a block and a half long.
Weight is important if you are going to be overlanding in the west. We cross many USFS bridges with 5 or 7 ton weight limits. Some of the LMTV conversions, larger GXV trucks, and Euro rigs weigh in at 20,000 pounds plus. And what do you do if you get a 10 ton truck stuck off road? A Jeep won’t be able to budge you an inch. Oh, and those spare tires. Do you really want to try and change a 350# tire?
Length comes into play if you like to tuck into small spots in the forest, enter some National Parks, or park in the parking lot of your favorite craft brewery. My opinion is that anything over 24’ will seriously limit where you can go, both on and off road.
Height will also limit where can you go both on and off road. I think the EC FX is a hair over 10’ tall, which is very manageable. We saw a GXV Kenworth cabover in Wyoming this summer and I swear is was as tall and took up as much room as a municipal trash truck. I’m not sure I want to take a rig that big deep into the forest. BTW, did you notice on the above chart that the Earth Cruiser has a smaller turning distance than the SportMobile? Dang. I wonder how many acres it takes to turn around an ER or one of the Euro trucks.
Finally, GVWR. After you install granite countertops, how much extra weight can you carry? And I’ve seen rigs with motorcycles, kayaks, SUPs, washing machines, and home refrigerators onboard. Gosh, do you really need to haul all that crap around with you? That stuff cost you in fuel mileage and limits where you can go and what you can do. Do you want an impressive pavement queen or a capable off road expedition vehicle?
Think long and hard before you plop your money down. Leave your preconceptions behind and analyze your purchase based on off road capability combined with a reasonable level of comfort. Be realistic. To me, carrying 100 gallons of water (800 pounds) is silly when potable water is readily available using iOverlander. We use an average of 7 gallons a day per person with a shower every two days. 40 gallons works great for us. The next time you are are at your favorite campsite, measure the trail width and make sure you check out how low those tree branches are. Are there wallows or high-center sections of the trail that will trip up a long wheelbase truck? And most of all, pay attention to what kind of vehicles you see on the trail or on a Forest Service road. For every mile you travel up a crappy road, different vehicle types will drop by the wayside. Have you seen your dream vehicle at a the end of your favorite dirt road or trailhead, or is it plugged in at the RV park in town??
I’d advise anybody looking at one of these vehicles to be very conscience of wheelbase length. The longer the wheelbase, the more apt you are got get high centered off road. The ER is a beautiful truck, but lordy, it’s a block and a half long.
Weight is important if you are going to be overlanding in the west. We cross many USFS bridges with 5 or 7 ton weight limits. Some of the LMTV conversions, larger GXV trucks, and Euro rigs weigh in at 20,000 pounds plus. And what do you do if you get a 10 ton truck stuck off road? A Jeep won’t be able to budge you an inch. Oh, and those spare tires. Do you really want to try and change a 350# tire?
Length comes into play if you like to tuck into small spots in the forest, enter some National Parks, or park in the parking lot of your favorite craft brewery. My opinion is that anything over 24’ will seriously limit where you can go, both on and off road.
Height will also limit where can you go both on and off road. I think the EC FX is a hair over 10’ tall, which is very manageable. We saw a GXV Kenworth cabover in Wyoming this summer and I swear is was as tall and took up as much room as a municipal trash truck. I’m not sure I want to take a rig that big deep into the forest. BTW, did you notice on the above chart that the Earth Cruiser has a smaller turning distance than the SportMobile? Dang. I wonder how many acres it takes to turn around an ER or one of the Euro trucks.
Finally, GVWR. After you install granite countertops, how much extra weight can you carry? And I’ve seen rigs with motorcycles, kayaks, SUPs, washing machines, and home refrigerators onboard. Gosh, do you really need to haul all that crap around with you? That stuff cost you in fuel mileage and limits where you can go and what you can do. Do you want an impressive pavement queen or a capable off road expedition vehicle?
Think long and hard before you plop your money down. Leave your preconceptions behind and analyze your purchase based on off road capability combined with a reasonable level of comfort. Be realistic. To me, carrying 100 gallons of water (800 pounds) is silly when potable water is readily available using iOverlander. We use an average of 7 gallons a day per person with a shower every two days. 40 gallons works great for us. The next time you are are at your favorite campsite, measure the trail width and make sure you check out how low those tree branches are. Are there wallows or high-center sections of the trail that will trip up a long wheelbase truck? And most of all, pay attention to what kind of vehicles you see on the trail or on a Forest Service road. For every mile you travel up a crappy road, different vehicle types will drop by the wayside. Have you seen your dream vehicle at a the end of your favorite dirt road or trailhead, or is it plugged in at the RV park in town??
I agree. To me, the most important issue on a day to day use of the vehicle is the turning radius. Anything much worse than my Sportsmobile would start to drive me crazy. I am waffling back and forth between the new EC TerraNova and the smaller Adventure Truck. Who knows whether I will really pull the trigger on either, but that's where I am looking. If I don't go with one of those, we will likely just get a normal RV and pull a Jeep or something. There are advantages to both setups. Clearly it's easier to explore a new area with a Jeep and use the RV as a basecamp, but with our van, a lot of times we change plans as the day goes on and decide not to even return to base camp even when we have paid for another night in a campground. It's nice to have that freedom and have all your stuff with you all the time.
I agree. As much as I like the look and the comfort of a big rig, they are not for everywhere.
I have a 4x4 sprinter van on a short wheel base, less than 20' long and about 10' high with roof accessories. We've been exploring national forests here in WA and I've hit low branches on almost every outing and was able to turn around on tight spots that my 21' long truck could not do easily thanks to the shorter turning radius.
A bigger rig would definitely do great in deserts area and certainly be more comfortable on longer trips, especially when the weather forces us inside for a few hours but I would definitely get a motorcycle for exploring dense forests like we have here in WA. Even some state parks I've been to with my trailer were extremely tight and people with small motorhomes where nervous driving through the narrow twisty campground roads with trees inches away.
I have a 4x4 sprinter van on a short wheel base, less than 20' long and about 10' high with roof accessories. We've been exploring national forests here in WA and I've hit low branches on almost every outing and was able to turn around on tight spots that my 21' long truck could not do easily thanks to the shorter turning radius.
A bigger rig would definitely do great in deserts area and certainly be more comfortable on longer trips, especially when the weather forces us inside for a few hours but I would definitely get a motorcycle for exploring dense forests like we have here in WA. Even some state parks I've been to with my trailer were extremely tight and people with small motorhomes where nervous driving through the narrow twisty campground roads with trees inches away.
gregmchugh
Observer
Isn’t it nice that buyers have a wide range of choices for expedition vehicles. Different strokes for different folks...
Our GXV Patagonia on a Kenworth K-370 chassis has a 20 ft box with an overall length of around 30 ft, height of 12’6”, a width of 8’, and a loaded weight of around 27,000 lb. For our type of travel it works just fine. Are there places we cannot go because of the size and turning radius of our vehicle, sure, but we don’t worry too much about the scratches from trees and get into most places we would like to go. People always ask of we bought the truck to handle Armageddon or the Zombie Apocalypse and we never thought about it but with Covid we have found that having 4 season capability with 200 gal of diesel, 130 gal of fresh water, a comfortable queen bed, a small kitchen, hot shower, and indoor seating allows us to get completely away from people for long stretches of time without the need to head into populated areas very often allowing us to avoid Covid hotspots. We made two trips up to Alaska and made it to the Arctic Ocean twice. Did we need this rugged a vehicle to go there, of course not, but we didn’t have any of the worries the regular RV owners have of bad roads, flat tires, broken suspensions, winter weather, etc. that limit where they travel.
I also think you need to distinguish between overland travelers and off road enthusiasts. We are in the overland traveler category and we stick to travel on anything that looks like a road, using our 4wd capability as needed to safely travel and not get stranded. We traveled back from Alaska in October both times to be there for the fall colors and didn’t have any worries about the fact that it would be cold and snowy but we did go into Denali NP in Oct of 2018 with sunny and clear and warm weather followed by a trip across the Denali Highway observing herds of migrating Caribou. As I mentioned before, you don’t need our type of vehicle to do this and in Alaska the end of any road finds the locals there in their compact cars and minivans. The truck is our home since we sold our house so we carry most our possessions with us except for stuff in storage. That need to carry what we wanted drove our decision to get a larger vehicle and we are happy with our choice.
Just because some vehicle doesn’t meet your needs doesn’t mean it isn’t right for someone else...
Our GXV Patagonia on a Kenworth K-370 chassis has a 20 ft box with an overall length of around 30 ft, height of 12’6”, a width of 8’, and a loaded weight of around 27,000 lb. For our type of travel it works just fine. Are there places we cannot go because of the size and turning radius of our vehicle, sure, but we don’t worry too much about the scratches from trees and get into most places we would like to go. People always ask of we bought the truck to handle Armageddon or the Zombie Apocalypse and we never thought about it but with Covid we have found that having 4 season capability with 200 gal of diesel, 130 gal of fresh water, a comfortable queen bed, a small kitchen, hot shower, and indoor seating allows us to get completely away from people for long stretches of time without the need to head into populated areas very often allowing us to avoid Covid hotspots. We made two trips up to Alaska and made it to the Arctic Ocean twice. Did we need this rugged a vehicle to go there, of course not, but we didn’t have any of the worries the regular RV owners have of bad roads, flat tires, broken suspensions, winter weather, etc. that limit where they travel.
I also think you need to distinguish between overland travelers and off road enthusiasts. We are in the overland traveler category and we stick to travel on anything that looks like a road, using our 4wd capability as needed to safely travel and not get stranded. We traveled back from Alaska in October both times to be there for the fall colors and didn’t have any worries about the fact that it would be cold and snowy but we did go into Denali NP in Oct of 2018 with sunny and clear and warm weather followed by a trip across the Denali Highway observing herds of migrating Caribou. As I mentioned before, you don’t need our type of vehicle to do this and in Alaska the end of any road finds the locals there in their compact cars and minivans. The truck is our home since we sold our house so we carry most our possessions with us except for stuff in storage. That need to carry what we wanted drove our decision to get a larger vehicle and we are happy with our choice.
Just because some vehicle doesn’t meet your needs doesn’t mean it isn’t right for someone else...
gregmchugh
Observer
If you look at expedition vehicles meant for long range overland travel, I think it would be unusual to see owners choose “our beloved” 120 hp Unimogs as the chassis of choice or even more modern Unimogs either. It is rare to see a European expedition truck on a Unimog even though they are readily available to them. There is really not that much off road capability needed for most overland travels that would justify a Unimog.
Our GXV Kenworth is not underpowered but also not overpowered either, with tires rated at 68 mph max we cruise at 65 mph on the highway but will be slowing down for hills. The truck has no problem handling steep grades, it just needs to take them at a lower speed. Being retired and just roaming around in no hurry to get anywhere we don’t spend too much time at 65 mph but I wouldn’t want to not have the capability to go that fast when the conditions are right for it. Some people would want more power to handle the hills at 65 mph but we are happy with what we have.
geoffff
Observer
So true, and I'm still catching myself forgetting this.
One of my travel hobbies is trying side tracks, just to see where they go. I'll spend all day in an area exploring all the little "roads". Most of them peter out, so I end up having to turn around in tight places. With anything much longer than my Sportsmobile, I'd be worrying about getting stuck. There are many otherwise fantastic larger overlanding vehicles that just wouldn't work for me.
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camodog
Adventurer
Here is a super geeky document I made to help me gather a feeling for the size of the EarthCruiser EXP/FX compared to my Sportsmobile, and some other Expedition vehicle ideas out there. The larger vehicles help comfort me with the idea of increased size with the EarthCruiser over my Ford E-Series. And, as a ringer, I put an M35 Deuce & ½ in there just because a friend drives one.
-- Geoff
Thank you for this!
as much as we love those larger purpose built rigs, we have our hearts set on converting our gladiator into a pass through permanent rv conversion. Think of an earthroamer shrunk down to a gladiator size.
we’ve reached out to the big names, but no one has time or resources even though they are all sold out years in advance.
The 144” sprinter is close in size, but lacks the capabilities of our gladiator on 37s.
Upgrade to Dana 60s and have an AEV Outpost II type outfit mated to our gladiator would be the best of all worlds.
pop up would be better in our opinion, the trails we enjoy have low branches, luckily the alucab has handled it with ease.
Greg, I wholeheartedly agree! Different strokes for different folks.
Obviously ER and GXV are very successful for a reason. They are filling the need of their customers. My point was to match your vehicle with your expectations.
There seems to be a common belief that large, long, and heavy 4x4 or 6x6 overland vehicles have the capability to go anywhere. That ain’t so. Every foot of length and height, and every pound limits to your travel ability. So be realistic in your expectations, figure out your travel style, make a realistic list of what you want to carry with you and how much it weighs, and how far up that USFS trail you want to go. Then match your travel style to a vehicle and go for it.
sierraskier
New member
FWIW my ~28' Earthroamer has a tighter turning radius than my E350 RB Sportsmobile did. No joke.
So true, and I'm still catching myself forgetting this.
One of my travel hobbies is trying side tracks, just to see where they go. I'll spend all day in an area exploring all the little "roads". Most of them peter out, so I end up having to turn around in tight places. With anything much longer than my Sportsmobile, I'd be worrying about getting stuck. There are many otherwise fantastic larger overlanding vehicles that just wouldn't work for me.
Yep ... you're right on with that kind of RV use ... way to go!
When myself and the wife were "a bit younger", we built our own camper based on a new Dodge B250 van we bought. We took that offroad a fair amount. What I really would have liked to have had is this:
What we now use off-highway is a 24 foot Class C built on a Ford E450 chassis, which offers a lot more comfort out in the middle of nowhere.
Hey all....hey Geoff, I think we met years ago at the Moab SMB meet up. Anyway, following this discussion and your excellent write ups on your driving impressions of the EC. I have been compiling a list of rigs for our future endeavors and these are at the top for sure. Cheers!
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cellularsteve2
Adventurer
Hi Guys,
I was at Moab in my SMB with my pregnant wife 11 years ago. REF was there
Now with 2 kids we have somewhat outgrown our SMB and I have been looking at a bigger rig. I like the cabovers but very few are for 4 passengers.
This thread is helpful. Thx.
Steve
I was at Moab in my SMB with my pregnant wife 11 years ago. REF was there
Now with 2 kids we have somewhat outgrown our SMB and I have been looking at a bigger rig. I like the cabovers but very few are for 4 passengers.
This thread is helpful. Thx.
Steve