Suspension change-up

Chorky

Observer
'06 TJ

Current - 4.5" currie jonny joint, fox 2.0 w/reservoir, 31" shoes

I have been considering changing things up. THis suspension has worked very well the last 5 years. But, changes in life event has me considering other routes. I no longer plan or expect to do hard core off road. 33's are likely the largest tire I will go, more likely will be sticking with 31's just due to what is available tire choice wise. So I have considered dropping to a 2-2.5" lift to make entrance/exit easier (back issues getting worse).

But, I question if a long arm is a way to go to help smooth out those highway bumps, and higher speeds on FS roads. I still would like to keep a high amount of articulation, which of course would be lost somewhat by dropping to a smaller lift height. I think the benifits may outweigh the cost.

So ultimately I am curious on experiences between a standard short-arm, or long arm (or possibly a 3-link? I do think moving away from the johnny joint is a high consideration to quiet things down, and considering I don't intend to do hard off road any longer.

Thoughts?
 

1stDeuce

Explorer
So... You're on a short arm 4.5" lift now? With 31's??? That looks fairly ridiculous in my mind's eye... ;) (No offense intended if the look works for you!)

I do think that 2.5" would be a more appropriate for 31's, and would also result in a better ride given similar shock valving and spring rates. IMO, keeping the lift low is important for good suspension geometry with short arms, and good handling traits as a result. for such lifts, there's nothing wrong with the OE short arm setup.

If you're looking for ideas, you can think on where I've ended up...

IMG_20200506_144457_1.jpg

I'm somewhere between 1.5" and 2" of suspension lift. I also have a 3/4" body lift. I am running 255/85R16's, which are more or less a 33x10.50. They work out pretty well IMO. Better than the wider 285's that I've run before.

To get a bit more clearance in the middle, I have an Nth Degree high clearance skid plate. Nth is gone, but several other versions are still available, and this works really well to make a more capable TJ without excessive lift. I'm also running a ~1" motor mount lift to put some rake back in the driveline angle, and give a bit more clearance under the oil pan. The 3/4" body lift keeps the fan nicely centered in the shroud, and kept me from having to dent the floor to fit a NP241OR transfer case. Though I'm not really a body lift guy, in this case it's working out pretty well for me. It also gave a bit more tire clearance to the fenders at full stuff, so I didn't have to limit the up-travel at all on the rear, and I think I have a ~1" spacer on the front jounce cups. Before the body lift and front jounce spacers, the front did chew on the fenders a bit...

If you do go this route, I don't recommend the poly body lifts. Stick with the factory body mount rubbers and use a short spacer and longer bolts. The poly body mount replacements that also allow lift are pretty stiff and transfer a lot of NVH into the Jeep. You'll have rattles you never had before, and it will eventually cause more cracking of the body.

Finally, I'm running an SYE and CV type driveshaft. (Ok, the 241OR is fixed rear output from the factory, but I'll be swapping back to my SYE 242 soon, and both cases use the same driveshaft...) I rolled up the pinion to work with the SYE with some adjustable length rear upper control arms. I also re-drilled the lower control arm mounts about 1" lower in the frame brackets to get rid of a tiny bit of roll induced oversteer after the lift. I was going to do the fronts as well, but there's not as much meat in those mounts IIRC, and doing the rears alone took care of my issues.

Other thoughts:
I would NOT consider a 3-link setup. They do terribile things to the roll center, and generally cause other issues. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the 5-link setup the TJ uses all around, and the geometry stays pretty good up to about 2-1/2" of lift. Also stay away from any "long arm" kit that mounts the upper control arms to the lower control arm. They effectively make a swingarm style suspension, and rely on bushing deflection for articulation. You'll rip the brackets off the axle eventually from the stress.

Finally, shocks are a huge part of ride quality. While I've heard good things about Fox shocks, I've not been able to find them in a length that works with my suspension setup. At least a few years ago, there was no offering for 2-2.5" of lift, they only had 4" shocks, which were too long, and stock shocks, which were too short even for a stock TJ IMO. Thus far, I've tried OME Nitrocharger's (standard ride, since I couldn't find the "softride" valved ones that I wanted...), Nitrocharger Sport's (Pretty much same ride as the Nitrochargers), Skyjacker Softride shocks (work on the web was that they were valved too soft, which is EXACTLY what I wanted, but evidently they "fixed" it, since mine were about the same as the OME shocks. Currently it's running a set of Bilstein's 5100's meant for a 2" lifted XJ. The length was PERFECT for my TJ, the ride is about the best overall, but still pretty stiff, IMO.

FWIW, my TJ is 3600lbs with the top and doors off. Most shocks seem to be valved for a TJ that weighs more than about 4000lbs, as all three brands I've tried ride fairly well with the jeep absolutely loaded, but are pretty harsh empty, where my jeep spends most of it's time.

Good luck!
 
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Chorky

Observer
So... You're on a short arm 4.5" lift now?

Yes correct. I'm not really a 'looks' kinda person and did expect to bump up to 35's which never happened. In retrospect I'm glad it didn't. I would like to go with 33's, but the ones I would like are not in the correct sizing (not wanting a 12.5" wide tire). Thanks for the .02! I'll probably stay away from body lifts - never been a fan. I have heard plenty of times in the past that long arms are 'always' better - yet never experienced them or knew anyone with them - which is why the question. The current JJ's either need to be rebuilt, or discarded. I have heard recently that more often than not the JJ's aren't really that beneficial unless one is pretty hard core, and they need rebuilding frequently - although 5 years on mine and they seem ok. I'm leaning more toward going back to a bushing setup to reduce some noise/vibrations/maintenance, but I haven't seen many arms with good bushings that are also adjustable - though haven't looked much either. It seems that the wide range of options for the TJ that used to be all over the place has started to diminish as newer Jeeps become popular. As for shocks, I currently have Fox 2.0 - and they are awesome! It would be nice to stick with the short arms, since all the brackets, geometry and such are there... So it's nice to hear a 'pro' short arm opinion.


Also - it looks like fox does offer a 2" shock in case you needed new ones - https://www.ridefox.com/product.php...ep&model=Wrangler+TJ&year=2006&position=Front
 

1stDeuce

Explorer
Also - it looks like fox does offer a 2" shock in case you needed new ones - https://www.ridefox.com/product.php...ep&model=Wrangler+TJ&year=2006&position=Front

I'm pretty sure that "0-2" lift shock is the same length as the factory shock, or pretty close to it. I need a shock actually designed for 2" of lift, or I only get 2" of droop travel, which is completely unacceptable. I'll find some length specs on it and see what I see though... I'd sure like to be able to do my own valving if they are a bit stiff out of the box.

<Edit> Yup. Extended length 20.8". That's actually just a tad shorter than the factory shock. :( I'd have 2" of droop travel on the front with those shocks. IIRC, the rear that they suggest is also 0-2" lift, and offers 1" LESS extended length than the factory shock. So you get about 1.5" of droop travel on the back if you have a 2" lift. Really Fox?? No thanks. For grins, I looked up the Cherokee too, and it lists the same part number, but says 0-1.5" for the front... That's probably more accurate for the TJ too, but it doesn't sell shocks. :)

I do think long arm lifts have their place... Anything over 4" on a TJ would be best in a long arm kit. Actually, I'd say most 4" TJ lifts would be better as long arm lifts too. The less "level" the control arms are, the more the front must "advance" as it rises over a bump. That adds to the harshness that you feel. On the both ends, it causes the axles to steer just a bit with body roll, and steer INTO the turn, which makes for a bit spooky handling if you have softer valved shocks. Particularly if you happen to have the sway bars disconnected... That's why I kept my suspension lift level low, and got better clearance with the center skid, MML, then larger tires, and a bit of body lift to make the tires work without limiting compression travel. :)

If it makes you feel better, the body lift and MML came at the same time, so I didn't have to limit travel to keep the tires from damaging the front fenders. As I said, not normally a body lift guy, but in this case, it actually works well to achieve the goal I had in mind.
 
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Chorky

Observer
I'm pretty sure that "0-2" lift shock is the same length as the factory shock, or pretty close to it. I need a shock actually designed for 2" of lift, or I only get 2" of droop travel, which is completely unacceptable. I'll find some length specs on it and see what I see though... I'd sure like to be able to do my own valving if they are a bit stiff out of the box.

<Edit> Yup. Extended length 20.8". That's actually just a tad shorter than the factory shock. :( I'd have 2" of droop travel on the front with those shocks. IIRC, the rear that they suggest is also 0-2" lift, and offers 1" LESS extended length than the factory shock. So you get about 1.5" of droop travel on the back if you have a 2" lift. Really Fox?? No thanks. For grins, I looked up the Cherokee too, and it lists the same part number, but says 0-1.5" for the front... That's probably more accurate for the TJ too, but it doesn't sell shocks. :)

I do think long arm lifts have their place... Anything over 4" on a TJ would be best in a long arm kit. Actually, I'd say most 4" TJ lifts would be better as long arm lifts too. The less "level" the control arms are, the more the front must "advance" as it rises over a bump. That adds to the harshness that you feel. On the both ends, it causes the axles to steer just a bit with body roll, and steer INTO the turn, which makes for a bit spooky handling if you have softer valved shocks. Particularly if you happen to have the sway bars disconnected... That's why I kept my suspension lift level low, and got better clearance with the center skid, MML, then larger tires, and a bit of body lift to make the tires work without limiting compression travel. :)

If it makes you feel better, the body lift and MML came at the same time, so I didn't have to limit travel to keep the tires from damaging the front fenders. As I said, not normally a body lift guy, but in this case, it actually works well to achieve the goal I had in mind.

hmm well thats frustrating if you can't even get a shock length appropriate for a true 2" lift. what about a 2.5 or 3"? if thats the case then I imagine wanting to stick to a 4" lift even if only on 31's. The whole point is for function not looks. So if you can't take advantage of more travel with a 2" then why bother? with that thought then it would seem to reason that a 4" long arm might be the 'standard' for TJ's? Or, just revert back to no lift - but that's no fun ha. My particular ride isn't necessarly harsh by any means, and is actually better than when it was stock. I always figured the harshness I have felt is the geometry as you mention, and also the JJ's not having any sort of bushing to soak up some vibrations. I'm just hoping to make it even softer for an aging back.
 

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