Super Loaded LR3 Control Arm Questions

#1
So please bear with me as I lay out my 42 part (exaggerating, I hope) question.
Okay, so just rolled over 60k in the LR3 and I can definitely feel and hear that it is time to do the LCAs on all corners. I posted a related question a while back, HERE, and believe that it is the Sway Bar Bushing and maybe the Knuckle Bushings, so those will probably be added to the list.
Now here in lies my question(s), upon doing a fair amount of research/video watching/pricing my options, it seems as though I have four options to choose from with regards to doing the LCAs.
  • Replace the entire assembly on all 4 corners
  • Replace just the bushings/balljoints/maybe even knuckle bushings on respective corners
  • Replace with Poly Bushings (Orange) w/ grease on them and ball joints/maybe knuckle bushings
  • Go with ADVsuspensions new beefier LCAs (most expensive route) on all 4 corners
Now here is where things get trickier and others experience matter greatly. I am not looking for the cheapest solution nor the most expensive, rather I am looking for what will last the longest vs the money/time spent. 1st and 4th options are the easiest obviously, but they are the most expensive too. I am not really considering option 2, but it is in there nonetheless. Option 3 is the most intriguing to me, but have heard endless amounts of mixed reviews on the Poly Bushes. Note Poly Bushes would be the Orange (Standard Stiffness) ones with some version of grease on them to aid with movement and install. Everything will be diy(barring any royal screw-ups) at my old mechanics shop(hopefully) or my house, no press however.

So what is everyone's thoughts and what kind of distance/life have you been getting out of the various options listed above? Have I missed any other options? :coffee:

Now the other factor to weigh in is this press, HERE , in which I would really consider purchasing (in the case of option 2 or 3) if I could offset the costs some. It seems like the kit and press will be around $400-500 I think(email into the comapany), but it'd really speed up the process. So my next question is, if I got it, would anyone be interested in renting it from me? Say for like 20-30 bucks? That way it helps more than just me and I can recoup (albeit slowly) some of the tool costs. (If this is an inappropriate question to ask or just rude, tell me and I'll edit this post)

And thus ends my 42 part question, in which I thank you all for making it this far and would HUGELY appreciate comments (or anything else that seems funny) below. :lurk:

Thank you again,
Tyler
 
#2
Tyler,

From what I have seen the LCA's go bad first on the front axle. My rear LCA's are original as far as I know. That could save you some trouble. My vote is go OEM, it appears to me that a few (not all) people that put the polybushes in are stressing their control arms more (the rubber is designed to take more of the stress?), and the Polybushes transfer more energy to the arms. Others with more experience will chime in no doubt.

Zelatore had an upper arm failure he attributes to the poly for that reason (I think).

I had my LCA's replaced entirely last year because the truck lived in virginia (salt their roads) and the arms/bolts were rusted like crazy and were not replaceable at home. Next time around I want to find either the OEM bushings to press in, or the RRS bushings they use on the sentinel models.
 
#3
I'd vote #1 unless you really have a compelling need to go #4. To me the cost is worth the facilitation of getting it done without losing your mind.
r-
R
 
#4
Has anyone seen those ADV LCA's - they look like a britpart LCA with a different bearing and a plate welded to them....

i'm just trying to figure out what the advantage is over say a britpart one @ $70 usd , granted they take a little while to swap out but not that long.

If you going OEM control Arms - they are $255/each which makes these (if better designed) worth the extra $50


be interested to know how they do, i'm going to need to do the LR3 soon
 

cmb6s

Adventurer
#5
I still toy with the idea of trying to press out the bushings and install new OEM ones myself, but every time I think about it, I read a story or warning that discourages me. I think when it comes time for me, I will be going with the RRS LCAs. I do not trust poly bushings and would be insanely irritated if I went through all the time and effort of replacing them only to have them squeak or, worse yet, have a CA fail due to the stiffness of the bushings.

My vote is to use OEM RRS parts to the greatest extent possible and then use OEM LR3 parts for the rest.
 
#6
There is not much to the LCA's - are the rrs ones different ? If so how? The bearing I can't see being different, the bushings, probably but that's not the wear part in there. I don't see a point in doing poly bushings because of the bearing and I'd rather have softer bushings given the service life of the oem bearing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#7
I've played this game.

Initially I replaced all bushings with poly. The change did slightly firm up the on-road handling of the truck, though it's not like it'll ever be king of the twisties so don't expect much of an improvement. There's only so much bushings can do to help a tall, heavy truck.

On washboard or other small/sharp bumps like embedded rock in hard pack, the ride was noticeably more harsh. With a traditional rig airing down more would help with this but with our short sidewalls there's just not much tire to soften the ride.

On the rear uppers, the forward eye is not gusseted. I have broken both sides right at the eye while running polys. While I do run my truck pretty hard (the last one broke on the Rubicon) I'm not abusive. I attribute the breakage to the stiffer bushing transferring more load to the eye. Of note, the rear eye on these arms does have a gusset and I have not seen a failure there.

After the second break within a year I decided it was time to ditch the polys in the rears. I am currently running RRS control arms. The arms themselves are the same but (I believe but have not independently verified) the bushing rubber is slightly firmer. So call it 'in between' stock and poly. I installed these in June and haven't had an issue since but that's not much time/miles so not a serious endorsement.

I do not know if the front RRS control arms will fit the LR3; I have only done the rears (still running poly in front)

When the time comes to re-do things I do not yet know what route I will take. I still have a set of stock rear arms - I may try gusseting them and use polys. Or I may stay with the RRS if I get decent life out of them. On the front my current thinking is to try the RRS if they will fit in order to soften the ride on washboard just that tiny bit but I have not had any problems with my poly.

As for installation, replacing the complete arm is pretty fast and easy. You will hear plenty of stories of corroded bolts and hardware that need to be cut off but in the west it's simply not an issue. Everything has come off easily on the trucks I've worked on here in California. If you live in the east or south you might need to worry about corrosion but not in the west. I replaced my bushings with just standard tools. A press, sawzall, drill, etc. The hard part is trying to line up the press and arm to actually push the bushings out. It's not easy and will need at least 2 people. I found it easier to drill many holes around the perimeter of the rubber bush then press/rip the center out of it, then use a sawzall to carefully cut the outer steel so it could be easily knocked out with a hammer and chisel. Trying to get a good alignment with the press to put any real pressure on some of them is almost impossible. The kit you linked to might solve this problem, but as noted it's not cheap for a one or two time use for the average Joe.

A friend just mentioned he's going to need to do bushings on his LR3 today. I'm probably going to suggest he go with RRS or stock and do the whole arm depending on his budget and if he's doing just fronts or all 4 corners.
 
#8
DiscoDavis - Thanks for the input. See I really think the rears need it as well. I have the clunk, squeak, out of alignment, and wobble in the front and the backs have a slight knock along with a suspension squeak, like when you come off a speed bump kind fast. So my question back to you is, did you get LR Genuine Arms or just OEM (non-LR ones). As far as the poly bushes taking more stress, you are correct there. The transfer of stress from the bushes is due to them being stiffer and not damping out as well OEM ones therefore allowing more load to transfer to the weak point of the arms. Just my half a cent of engineering knowledge.

Ray_G - Appreciate the thoughts. So with the ARB bumper on front, a TR Rear Bumper in the near future, a hitch for pulling a boat, and knowing that she ain't getting any lighter, do you still standby just OEM over the beefed up ones? I guess the real issue is that the ADV arms are pretty new and people don't have enough time on them to truly show if they are worth the investment.

rlynch356 - Got the same thoughts as you do...

cmb6s - Yeah, I tend to bite off just a little bit more than I can chew, but I think it would be doable. Does anyone know if the RRS Front LCA's will work on the LR3? All I have heard is that the rears work. I have not seen anyone confirm that fronts will work or if there is even any reliability increase.

zelatore - Damn dude. Well done on wheeling your vehicle hard enough to find it's true weaknesses and limits. ARB or equivalent compressor is on my list, I am running 275/65s so I have a decent amount of sidewall to air down. To be clear, is that RRS Upper or Lower Arms in the rear, upper if I am following correctly? Well the vehicle lived in Seattle for 30-40k or so and then sat in a hanger in FL up to 55k when I bought it a few months back. So, the bolts are anyones guess, probably seized though. It can't go completely easy right...? Yeah, the kit looks awesome, but there is no sense in buying it unless I can recoup the costs some how or other.

So, of the replies so far it seems everyone believes replacing the entire lower is the best option and the cost outweighs the headache that comes with pressing the bushes out. The big questions now I guess would be, are the RRS Arms worth it and which ones are actually compatible. Has anyone purchased the ADV sus arms? What are people's thoughts on replacing the sway bar bushes and which ones have people purchased? Umm... Any other 60k maintenance I am missing?

Seriously, thank yall. You guys are a huge help.

Tyler
 

cmb6s

Adventurer
#9
You can look up the part numbers to verify, but the RRS front LCAs are the same as the front LCAs on the armored version of the LR3. Hence the reason that people assume the RRS bushings are beefier and designed to handle more load and last longer. There's quite a bit of info out there on the subject and I'm pretty sure I have a post or response on this board somewhere that actually lists the manufacturer and part numbers for the OEM bushings (exact ones that LR uses without the markup). Lemforder I believe... you can view their catalog online and cross reference bushing part numbers between the standard LR3, the armored LR3 and the RRS.
 
#10
FYI agree with Don on the west trucks having no rust. IF however you have a truck that didn't spend its life dry... you get something like mine had:



My dealer gave these to me as souvenirs after a tech spent several hours with a sledgehammer on my control arms. The right one was a new bolt that they marred trying to fit one of my old washers onto.
 
#11
So my question back to you is, did you get LR Genuine Arms or just OEM (non-LR ones).

So with the ARB bumper on front, a TR Rear Bumper in the near future...

Well the vehicle lived in Seattle for 30-40k or so and then sat in a hanger in FL up to 55k when I bought it a few months back. So, the bolts are anyones guess, probably seized though.

So, of the replies so far it seems everyone believes replacing the entire lower is the best option and the cost outweighs the headache that comes with pressing the bushes out... What are people's thoughts on replacing the sway bar bushes and which ones have people purchased? Umm... Any other 60k maintenance I am missing?
Tyler,

For the LCAs up front, I had them done at a dealer with factory LR3 parts they ordered.

As for the ARB front and TR rear. I have both and watch out for ARB. Either have a fab shop ready to perfectly center your shock absorbers, OR pray yours lines up. Mine is crooked, Don's WAS crooked before he cut and welded his, others have gotten lucky. Nice bumper though. TR rear is great however. Mine required some existing bumper modification to fit.

Since I see it wasn't always dry... see the photo in previous post. That was one of my Front LCA bolts after 8 years in Virginia. To be fair a lot of that was salt AND humidity but moisture is a big part. If it's any question either get access to a lift and a huge sledgehammer, OR just have a dealer do it. $$$ I know...

Front sway bar bushings are cheap, fairly straightforward. One at the front is hard because you need to get the top nut for the bracket from the engine bay, not from the bottom of the vehicle, because the diff is in the way. I think rears are super easy to access if you lift the vehicle up.

75k service is change both diff fluids, change transfer case fluid. ZF (tranny manufacturer) also says to change tranny fluid at this time. Check the quality of your coolant, check all coolant hoses. How are your accessory belts looking? They could be changed.

Definitely change the bleeder valve right on top of the throttle body, it will disintegrate after a few years. Can be replaced with brass.
 
#12
I also did poly sway bar bushing at the same time I did the control arms. I don't remember any of them being particularly difficult. It's been a couple years but it seems like I had to drop the front diff mount a little for access? Just three bolts (or on mine 2 as one has gone awol). I did them all from below, I know that much. I was working on a lift, so access was easier than doing it in the driveway though I've had all the control arms on/off in the drive so it's not like it's the end of the world.

I have upper and lower rear RRS in the truck currently. Stock fronts w/poly.

A bit of a LOL on the 275/65s having plenty of sidewall. That's the size I used to run. I'm currently running 275/70s and still consider it pretty short in the sidewall department. I'd much rather have 75s but I'm not ready for that much body cutting. :) Of course compared to the stock size it IS a lot of sidewall; just not compared to a traditional wheeling rig.

On compressors, I'm a big fan of the Viair dual 400P. Much cheaper than anything else that puts out that much air and you can pretty easily fit them under the cover by the master cylinder if you're not running a dual battery. I run mine with an ARB quick connect kit I won in a raffle, but you could build your own quick connect setup pretty easily from standard air fittings. I know the Viair system isn't rated 100% duty cycle, but I've aired up 8 to 10 32-35" tires in a row before one of the compressors went into thermal shutdown. I cooled it off with a little water and it kept chugging along. I plan to install the same system in my RRC next.

On bumpers...DD already mentioned the ARB fitting fun. It has a few other drawbacks, like approach angle, winch access, and headlight access. It does look pretty nice and is generally well made. I regard it more as a touring bumper than a rock crawling bumper. For hard core wheeling I'd look at other options. Tactical for starters. I'd also look at the unit Lucky8 is selling for the LR3 now. I haven't seen it in person but it seems worth a look.
 
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#13
You can look up the part numbers to verify, but the RRS front LCAs are the same as the front LCAs on the armored version of the LR3. Hence the reason that people assume the RRS bushings are beefier and designed to handle more load and last longer. There's quite a bit of info out there on the subject and I'm pretty sure I have a post or response on this board somewhere that actually lists the manufacturer and part numbers for the OEM bushings (exact ones that LR uses without the markup). Lemforder I believe... you can view their catalog online and cross reference bushing part numbers between the standard LR3, the armored LR3 and the RRS.
I dug through and found the threads you were mentioning and have bookmarked them. Hope to get through them this evening. I was slightly preoccupied by Game 7 of the World Series last night to absorb a lot of info.

Tyler,

For the LCAs up front, I had them done at a dealer with factory LR3 parts they ordered.

As for the ARB front and TR rear. I have both and watch out for ARB. ... TR rear is great however. Mine required some existing bumper modification to fit.

Since I see it wasn't always dry... see the photo in previous post. That was one of my Front LCA bolts after 8 years in Virginia.

Front sway bar bushings are cheap, fairly straightforward. ... I think rears are super easy to access if you lift the vehicle up.

75k service is change both diff fluids, change transfer case fluid. ZF (tranny manufacturer) also says to change tranny fluid at this time. Check the quality of your coolant, check all coolant hoses. How are your accessory belts looking? They could be changed.

Definitely change the bleeder valve right on top of the throttle body, it will disintegrate after a few years. Can be replaced with brass.
Thankfully the ARB is already on there and of no issues currently. The previous owner had it professionally done at a shop in Seattle, though he did mention that they had a heck of a time with it. As far as the TR, I am hoping to have one later next year.

I am already accepting the fact mine will be seized and "trying" to plan accordingly (looks for 4' cheater and sledge hammers).

Glad to hear sway bushings are easier.

Awesome, thank you. I'll add what I don't have to my maintenance list. Got the bleeder on the list.

I have upper and lower rear RRS in the truck currently. Stock fronts w/poly.

A bit of a LOL on the 275/65s having plenty of sidewall. That's the size I used to run. I'm currently running 275/70s and still consider it pretty short...

On compressors, I'm a big fan of the Viair dual 400P. Much cheaper than anything else that puts out that much air...

On bumpers...DD already mentioned the ARB fitting fun. It has a few other drawbacks, like approach angle, winch access, and headlight access. ... I regard it more as a touring bumper than a rock crawling bumper...
Good to know.

I know, they are not massive tires by any means but it is the best I can do without lift rods. I am not planning on any hardcore wheeling yet (would like to build up to it), but I hunt/fish/mtb in plenty of areas that would benefit from airing down a little.

Yeah, it is a nice bumper and sad that fitment is so hit and miss. Next on my list of to-do's is to get to the winch if possible and diagnose it. It works sporadically, but mainly just gives the solenoid "click" when trying to operate it. So, that'll be the next investigation. I had wondered about access (or lack thereof) to the headlights. I'm just going to hope they won't require any attention for a while.

Thanks everyone
 
#14
Winch issue sounds like poor connections of the battery cables either at the solenoid, winch motor, or battery itself. At least that would be my first place to look. If you get the 'click' you know the low power side is working because the solenoid is what makes that click as it engages.
 

KMET

Adventurer
#15
I've done your option #3 for the front, @ 130k rear arm/bush are original.
Replace with Poly Bushings (Orange) w/ grease on them and ball joints/maybe knuckle bushings

It's a lot easier to replace Polys over stock bushings once they fail.
 
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