"Solar Generator"

kwill

Observer
Ollie, I appreciate your posts and your willingness to put up with the "experts" that rarely have anything positive to say. For every author or creator there are 1,000 critics, especially on the internet. We can all agree that the term "solar generator" is not strictly correct but I really don't get why people get so emotionally invested in the argument.
 

OllieChristopher

Well-known member
Ollie, I appreciate your posts and your willingness to put up with the "experts" that rarely have anything positive to say. For every author or creator there are 1,000 critics, especially on the internet. We can all agree that the term "solar generator" is not strictly correct but I really don't get why people get so emotionally invested in the argument.

I hear you there! I try not to be so uptight as to someone else's terminology. There are a lot of guys and gals that have some fantastic ideas and skills that go well beyond any expert in the field. We can all learn from each other.

An example is to just look at what RDinNHand AZ put together. It's not what I would do, but he made it custom and purpose built for himself. Who am I to put down a gentleman's effort and solution to get some portable power. He put in a lot of time and even laid out all the parts he used to share with this community.

I was taken aback by the tasteless 2nd post in his solar generator build thread correcting him. Heck man we all know the difference between a "solar generator" and "power pack". So why the lecture in engineering terms?
 

Dendy Jarrett

Expedition Portal Admin
Staff member
Fair warning. This thread has responses that are not in the spirit of Expedition Portal. The thread is being watched and monitored. I've had about a weeks worth of reported posts in a day because of this thread. If I get more, I'm shutting it down.

Thanks
DJ
 

67cj5

Man On a Mission
All I know is these Lithium Storage Units have made life so easy when it comes to collecting power from the Sun and transforming it in to useable energy in what would take us days to harvest using Our Deep Cycle Batteries with AGM being a lot better but not quite in the same league as Lithium.

Amother thing I have learned is for most of us who use smaller campers and 4x4's the Medium sized Lithium Packs in the region of 500Wh to 1000Wh ar the best option and are easier to Charge than the 1500wh to 2400Wh versions due to the amount of Solar Watts they require in order to charge them quickly, Based on that A 500Wh+ model is easier to Run and Gun than it's much larger Bretheren because needing 500 to 700w of Solar is going to take up a lot of Storage space but without them a person might as well go back to Lead Acid because the charge times are going to take just as long.

Some of you might disagree with me but in the past 2 years I have had to rethink all of the above, and my most effective for an easy life is using a Couple of 500Wh+ Lithium Packs and 2 Foldable 120w Solar Panels and with this setup I can Charge one in a couple of hours whilst still having one in reserve or I can Use one and charge it at the same time and still fully charge it,

Like many it is easy to get sucked in to the "WANT" rather than "NEED" situation and head straight for the biggest money can Buy, Not saying thats wrong but if you can't put back the charge that you used over night in 1 to 3 hours the next morning then you are going to waste a day or so parked in one spot every few days which is why 2 smaller packs are the better option not only that If you need power in 2 places at the same time then again using 2 smaller packs Wins again,

Those big 1500/2400wh packs are great for off grid living or with larger Vans where you have the roof space to to fit 500 to 800watts of solar and I know people do use them but for an easy life keeping the Lithium Packs between 500 and 1000Wh is the better way to go not to mention they the larger model weigh up to 40 or 60lbs Vs 15lbs each or less and take up more space.

with all my testing etc these are some of the things I have come up against in trying to get it right.
 

RDinNHand AZ

Active member
Don’t think that when I built the portable power pack I did it to replace or substitute for a solar power/storage system in a vehicular overland rig. In my van (now sold) I used flooded led acid golf cart batteries and mounted solar on the roof. Why? Because if you are not really concerned about size and even more unconcerned about weight then that sort of a system gives MUCH greater return for the money. I have documented elsewhere a $500 solar system and a $700 total electrical system. My WATTBOX portable is about 1/3 the capacity of my former van system and about the same price but about 1/10th the weight! That system had inputs for power from the alternator as well as a nice 1100 watt inverter.
 
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67cj5

Man On a Mission
I trained as a Mechanic but I hate Auto Electrics, So apart from adding a couple of big batteries and an inverter and a charge controller and some Solar I really don't like over complicating things, I would rather install it and get it up and running instead of turning it in to a hobby, which is why I like these fatory made Lithium packs, Plus they are not tied to the Vehicle and I can use it where ever power is needed be it in camp or in the boat or even in a power outage.

These Packs are the "Leatherman" of the portable power world,
 

228B

Observer
Stopped reading this thread after 10 replies or so due to the deteriorating discussion occurring at that time...

But I would like to add that the term "generator" is used over a wider range than in just the topic of electricity.

Take, for example, a white-gas camp lantern or stove... the part that passes liquid fuel between two glowing lantern mantles or across a blue flame of a stove burner has always been referred to by Coleman, anyway, as a generator. It generates hydrocarbon vapor from a hydrocarbon liquid. "Gas-o-line" has been around since long before it was ever used as a motor fuel... and for the purposes of light and heat. Through a generator.

?
 

67cj5

Man On a Mission
I know I'm not the only one here who is a little bit annoyed by this term that seems to have cropped up for the plethora of portable power packs out there. :rolleyes:

Nevertheless, there certainly seem to be a lot of them out there. Look at what shows up on my Amazon feed:

View attachment 605508

I'm assuming these battery packs are of varying quality, made in China or elsewhere. I could see them as a good option for those who don't have the time/work space/knowledge to do a dual-battery conversion.

Biggest worry I would have is that these are cobbled together from a multitude of components (battery, charger, sockets, inverter, LCD display, power supply, etc) and if just one of those sub-components fails, what you have is a very expensive paperweight.

However, as the market "matures" I expect to see some clear leaders emerge.

And I have to say I'm looking forward to it. I think it's great that there are portable power options out there that don't require a lot of wiring knowledge or money to be workable.
Martin, I think I have solved the puzzle that has been anoying you,

The Jackery on it's own they call a Portable power station,

And then they list their Solar Panels,

When the Two are a combined package they list them as a Solar Generator, The combination of the two items generate and store the power that has been collected,

See Here, https://www.jackery.com/pages/portable-power-products
 

altaboy

Observer
Well, a gasoline (propane, or?) generator is still a gasoline generator event w/o gasoline. "Grab the generator" has the fuel type assumed in it's context.
 

67cj5

Man On a Mission
Well, a gasoline (propane, or?) generator is still a gasoline generator event w/o gasoline. "Grab the generator" has the fuel type assumed in it's context.
I got an Awesome Gas powered Generator but I have never used it, My SoLaR GeNeRaToRs Charge by the 12v Cigar Socket, Or a folding Solar Panel.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
I hear you there! I try not to be so uptight as to someone else's terminology. There are a lot of guys and gals that have some fantastic ideas and skills that go well beyond any expert in the field. We can all learn from each other.
...
I was taken aback by the tasteless 2nd post in his solar generator build thread correcting him. Heck man we all know the difference between a "solar generator" and "power pack". So why the lecture in engineering terms?
But I would like to add that the term "generator" is used over a wider range than in just the topic of electricity.

Take, for example, a white-gas camp lantern or stove... the part that passes liquid fuel between two glowing lantern mantles or across a blue flame of a stove burner has always been referred to by Coleman, anyway, as a generator. It generates hydrocarbon vapor from a hydrocarbon liquid. "Gas-o-line" has been around since long before it was ever used as a motor fuel... and for the purposes of light and heat. Through a generator.
@OllieChristopher, it's the curse of STEM to be sticklers for terminology. If you have to keep starting at zero defining terms you never get anything done. Still, the beginning of a technical paper or book will contain a list of terms and abbreviations because, you know, can't ever be too explicit. But when you tell someone "you went to engineering school" that's an easy way to determine what base assumption you can make for a common technical language.

I prefer the term "generator" to mean using mechanical energy to generate electricity, e.g. liquid fuels, hydro, wind spinning an electromagnetic machine and "conversion" for solar since it's an electrochemical process. But the two terms are interchangeable for most practical purposes so there's no reason to get wound up about it, the basic idea is converting one physical thing into something else you can use.

In this vein there are commonly understood uses for the word and a well known one is in chemistry a "generator" is something that generates gases or vapors. Coleman is absolutely correct in calling it that over "liquid to gas changing tube to make a flame thingamajig." There are other math and science uses, like an algorithm "generating" an output or whatever.

In this case my original comment was that I don't think a big box with a battery in it is a "generator" simply because it shares a similar form factor to a Honda generator. The concepts of generating (e.g. converting something into your desired form of electricity) and storage should IMO be distinct. Storage has a significantly more immediate limitation based on how fast you consume it, conceptually "making vs spending." A jerry can of fuel isn't a generator after all.
 
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OllieChristopher

Well-known member
Dave, Where do you see Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics as a curse to using proper terminology? Every single person who reads this thread understands the meaning of Solar Generators. It honestly is not that big of a deal.

Engineers and humans the world over use different words and terminology in our vocabulary to describe the same thing. What your preference is for describing something is no different than mine.

Thread title is Solar Generator. Bagging on that term is a disservice to anyone who is looking into setting up a solar generator for their personal use. Just googling the term "solar generator" shows that it is in fact an actual product. Jackery describes it perfectly.

BTW, I am enjoying and using the heck out of my solar generator. It works just as described by generating electricity using solar energy from the sun rather than gasoline and internal combustion engine to do the same.
 

67cj5

Man On a Mission
Dave, Where do you see Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics as a curse to using proper terminology? Every single person who reads this thread understands the meaning of Solar Generators. It honestly is not that big of a deal.

Engineers and humans the world over use different words and terminology in our vocabulary to describe the same thing. What your preference is for describing something is no different than mine.

Thread title is Solar Generator. Bagging on that term is a disservice to anyone who is looking into setting up a solar generator for their personal use. Just googling the term "solar generator" shows that it is in fact an actual product. Jackery describes it perfectly.

BTW, I am enjoying and using the heck out of my solar generator. It works just as described by generating electricity using solar energy from the sun rather than gasoline and internal combustion engine to do the same.
Solar Generators are better than a fixed system, But saying that a fixed system still has loads of uses, its just that solar generators are so portable and charge so fast that a person can afford the scale down their power bank, I love em.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Dave, Where do you see Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics as a curse to using proper terminology? Every single person who reads this thread understands the meaning of Solar Generators. It honestly is not that big of a deal.

Engineers and humans the world over use different words and terminology in our vocabulary to describe the same thing. What your preference is for describing something is no different than mine.

Thread title is Solar Generator. Bagging on that term is a disservice to anyone who is looking into setting up a solar generator for their personal use. Just googling the term "solar generator" shows that it is in fact an actual product. Jackery describes it perfectly.

BTW, I am enjoying and using the heck out of my solar generator. It works just as described by generating electricity using solar energy from the sun rather than gasoline and internal combustion engine to do the same.
I meant it's a curse carried by us (some anyway) as a desire for correct terminology. We're not robots (yet) so each individual professional will of course have a different tolerance to a layperson using a term casually. And you're right about amateurs sometimes besting pros. Not having certain constraints, often economic, allows that. A hobby of mine is archeology and a lot of discoveries over the decades have been by very knowledge and dedicated amateurs, often people with financial means (like medical doctors) who can do what a professional cannot achieve due to the need to compete for grants to support.

Didn't I say in my response that there's right and then there's right? I said "there's no reason to get wound up about it, the basic idea is converting one physical thing into something else you can use." Generating power from the Sun using solar panels is the same thing as using gasoline or coal or water. I never said it wasn't and the field agrees in textbooks.

When things are discussed indiscriminately understanding the point is usually not a problem but as the issue grows in complexity so does the need for precision in language to prevent mistakes. But, yeah, the context and audience also dictates how important being a stickler is, too. I just don't think anyone is done a favor by not at least trying to be precise. I actually believe in some ways it's also dishonest on the part of marketing and sales departments who should know better but follow the "anything for a buck" philisophy.
 
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