Small cross-over SUV functional for adventuring?

[dreadlocks]

The Touareg TDI has a Toyota Aisin transmission in em, and a borg warner transfer case.. its a normal truck style drivetrain w/separate front diff/driveshaft unlike most VW/Audi's, you can find some rare unicorns w/rear lockers but good luck.. and can tow 7700lbs

 

[Martinjmpr]

We have a 2016 CR-V (last year before the current model) and while it's a fine around-town and all-weather car, I wouldn't take it very far off the beaten path just because of poor clearance. IIRC the Honda has a CVT as well but we've never had any issues with either of the two we've owned (we previously had a 2010 CR-V.)

Reliability and MPG are good on the CR-V. Never had any issues with either of ours apart from a minor recall on the airbag. MPG is 23 - 26 around town and over 30 on the highway.

It's a noisy beast though. I find it annoying to drive on long trips because of the interior noise level. It's like Honda hasn't learned how to decrease interior noise since they made my buddy's Civic back in 1976.

 

[Buddha.]

I had a ‘17 forester with a manual trans. I had snow tires on it and in blizzards it stuck To the road like Velcro. I had skid plates on it and it would slide over snowbanks like a sled. It was great.
It burned about a quart of oil per thousand miles even though I bought it new and followed the break in procedure. That was super lame. I always drove beaters before that and non of them burned half as much oil.

 

[calicamper]

A true small SUV is near impossible to find right now. 99% of them are all small cars with tall roof lines and very basic AWD added and maybe a small bump in ground clearance with taller springs. Even Mid sized SUVs are very very limited now only a couple actually have low range and all the modern AWD vehicles share the same limitation of simply getting power to the wheels all of them come up short and will stop in their tracks before running out of traction.

 

[calicamper]

The Forester is a Tall boxy Impreza I always tell my friends shopping them if you don’t see a impreza working for you the Forester won’t either.
If you don’t see a Honda civic working for you a CRV likely won’t either.

The current RaV4 is a badly needed fix for the prior generation Tall corrolla that actually failed crash test standards before it was even released possibly one of the worst Toyota redesigns in the past 18yrs. The current version is a badly needed much better effort but still missed the mark on some levels like the long nose over hang etc.

 

[Battle]

Why not just keep the 4Runner and buy a small car for driving around town? The 4Runner is going to be more capable and reliable off the beaten path than any small car-based crossover - especially if it's new. What does it get, like 16 mpg? The money you would spend on a new vehicle that's no where near as capable as the 4Runner could just go to gas for the 4Runner.

Personally, I think you're downgrading thinking you're upgrading.

 

[Martinjmpr]

I know I've said this before but the whole "CUV as a light-duty off-roader" idea is one that works a lot better in theory than it does in real life.

In theory it offers the promise of a vehicle that will go 90% of the places most people take their "off road" vehicles anyway, with the bonus of offering a significant improvement in fuel economy and lower fuel and maintenance costs (because smaller, lighter, smaller engine, etc.)

In real life, though, by the time you add bigger, beefier tires, any kind of skid plate or armor, a real spare tire and a reasonable amount of camping or off-road gear, MPG drops back to being about the same as the likes of a 4runner or similar, i.e. 15- 17 in the city and 20-21 on the highway.

I would call that "building yourself right back into the same box you just got out of."

Even worse, you've lost the high ground clearance and low range that the SUV or truck offered, not to mention the fact that the generally lighter and weaker components of the CUV are more prone to breaking and needing replacement than the generally heavier, beefier components in a truck-based SUV or small pickup.

IMO the only way to make this "work" is to make no changes to the tires, suspension, or anything else. Throw your gear in the back and run it like it came from the factory, and accept the limitations of that. Millions of people do it every year.

Here in CO every hiking or MTB trail parking lot is filled wall-to-wall with Subarus, Volvo station wagons, CR-Vs and RAV-4s.

 

[calicamper]

My Outback in winter did 20-21mpg around town and 26ish mpg road trips with out bikes or our 4x6 trailer. Just 4 people and gear packed fairly full. I did find the BFG Advantage T/A sports to be the best tire I’ve ever ran on the subarus regarding durability, good performance in dirt and snow with no obvious hit to mileage. I liked the tire so much I put them on my 07 Sequoia and they have been great. I recently sold the Sequoia after 8 yrs of ownership to my dad. Sold my Subaru to a young teacher needing a decent car and bought a 2019 Ford Expedition. The Expedition on road trips matches the Subaru even does better MPG averages than the Outback did with our bikes and 4x6 trailer!!
So from a fuel use stand point the big Expedition actually is out performing my Outback in my use of the two vehicles used the same way. Only now I have seats for 8 and 400hp and true 4x4 with locking rear diff.
My Sequoia was 12-14mpg in town and 15-16mpg road trips. Great truck we enjoyed it but my dad needed a reliable vehicle and I sold two vehicles and replaced it with one.

The 4runner I had one many yrs ago the worst vehicle I’ve ever owned regarding, passenger comfort, on road handling and I had the lousy 3L v6 with the bad block / head design. I replaced it with a Subaru which was a 5spd Manual fantastic car sold it to a local kid 100% working at 180,000 he replaced it after his first yr of career job work at 240,000. I bought a 93 Landcruiser to do the stuff the Subaru couldn’t it was fun light yrs better than the 4runner but 11-12mpg it was a lousy long distance vehicle. Sold it after 8 yrs again in mint condition for exactly what I paid for it 8 yrs earlier minus the thousands I spent in maintenance, it was expensive to keep up.
My last Subaru was the CTV Outback I missed all the faulty part issues by pure luck had a good one zero issues. The cvt simply isn’t designed to handle situations where from a stop a tire or tires won’t spin easily and reverts to self preservation mode chopping power and basically leaving you stuck while the FWD mini van next to you spins tires and pulls out. Etc. Once moving the Subaru AWD is good but even Toyotas lousy AWD has improved enough that the gap between systems is pretty small now. CRV awd is still lousy though.

 

[billiebob]

i'm in the dark here.

we all are, sometimes you have to ignore the haters

 

[tdferrero]

Have you considered a Renegade Trailhawk? I know there are a few different people on the forum that are building them. They seem rather capable for what they are.

 

[al_burpe]

I know I've said this before but the whole "CUV as a light-duty off-roader" idea is one that works a lot better in theory than it does in real life.

In theory it offers the promise of a vehicle that will go 90% of the places most people take their "off road" vehicles anyway, with the bonus of offering a significant improvement in fuel economy and lower fuel and maintenance costs (because smaller, lighter, smaller engine, etc.)

In real life, though, by the time you add bigger, beefier tires, any kind of skid plate or armor, a real spare tire and a reasonable amount of camping or off-road gear, MPG drops back to being about the same as the likes of a 4runner or similar, i.e. 15- 17 in the city and 20-21 on the highway.

I would call that "building yourself right back into the same box you just got out of."

Even worse, you've lost the high ground clearance and low range that the SUV or truck offered, not to mention the fact that the generally lighter and weaker components of the CUV are more prone to breaking and needing replacement than the generally heavier, beefier components in a truck-based SUV or small pickup.

IMO the only way to make this "work" is to make no changes to the tires, suspension, or anything else. Throw your gear in the back and run it like it came from the factory, and accept the limitations of that. Millions of people do it every year.

Here in CO every hiking or MTB trail parking lot is filled wall-to-wall with Subarus, Volvo station wagons, CR-Vs and RAV-4s.

I have been contemplating getting a AWD Sienna and discovered that you can get a lift kit for them. I started looking at builds people did to add bigger tires and better suspension. Then it occurred to me that they were spending the money to turn their Sienna into a Sequoia when they could have just bought a Sequoia to begin with. All the changes were just taking away all of the advantages of a minivan such as low entry for kids, better gas mileage, and easier to drive. Anyway, I think you summed up drawbacks to getting a CUV and trying to turn it into more of an off road vehicle. I would only disagree with leaving the original tires on it as they often come with terrible tires that are not great in any condition. You can upgrade those but leave the size the same without changing the overall characteristics of the vehicle.

 

[calicamper]

I have been contemplating getting a AWD Sienna and discovered that you can get a lift kit for them. I started looking at builds people did to add bigger tires and better suspension. Then it occurred to me that they were spending the money to turn their Sienna into a Sequoia when they could have just bought a Sequoia to begin with. All the changes were just taking away all of the advantages of a minivan such as low entry for kids, better gas mileage, and easier to drive. Anyway, I think you summed up drawbacks to getting a CUV and trying to turn it into more of an off road vehicle. I would only disagree with leaving the original tires on it as they often come with terrible tires that are not great in any condition. You can upgrade those but leave the size the same without changing the overall characteristics of the vehicle.

My Sequoia seats were almost identical to my buddies Sienna. First time he rode with me he was like umm this is a truck right? Because I swear it’s identical seating as my Sienna. My response was yes its a V8 4x4 with full sized spare tire Sienna. His sienna averaged about 2mpg better than my Sequoia. Its generally an easy decision to make if you ever need a spare tire or drive on anything but dry or wet pavement. ?

 

[s.e.charles]

i think there should be a dedicated section for this type of vehicle.

there are ideas in this system which might be worth borrowing:

 

[94toy22re]

Greetings all, I am new to this forum.

My question is this. I would like to buy a practical functional small cross-over SUV to take off-road for the purpose of making it safely to adventure destinations. (so while rock-crawling and all that could be an obstacle to arrive at some destinations that is not the point of the vehicle). I took a RAV4 on a 4 wheel drive road to make it to this point in Iceland and thought it did pretty well (https://www.extremeiceland.is/en/attractions/landmannalaugar-information) .

Main points of concern would be reliability (I dont want a car that breaks down a lot), gas mileage, functionality and safety off-road, value. I currently have an old 4 runner sport, which is bad-ass off road but a lunk to drive around the city day to day, and gives appallingly bad gas mileage. I don't care about bells and whistles unless they clearly boost the functionality or safety of the car. I live in S. Cal so a lot of trips would be desert, but mountain adventures as well.

I am looking at Rav4 AWD, RAV 4 Hybrid, Subaru Outback, Forester or CrossTrek. I got caught up in the technicalities of X-Mode, Dual Function X-Mode, the downsides of CVT, and whatever they call the AWD system on a Rav4 Adventure. I have looked online to the point that I am spinning my wheels (pun sort of intended). I would be so grateful for any input. Thank you so much.

I was in similar situation, I have a V8 4Runner and decided I wanted to get a Crosstrek for a DD and something that could get to remote areas while using less gas. It was basically instant regret so much that I just sold the crosstrek back to the dealer 14 months and 18k later! It was good car but the lack of power, the terrible A/C, clutch chatter and eating a wheel bearing in under 15k miles made the decision very easy.

 

[bouncer]

Then it occurred to me that they were spending the money to turn their Sienna into a Sequoia when they could have just bought a Sequoia to begin with. All the changes were just taking away all of the advantages of a minivan such as low entry for kids, better gas mileage, and easier to drive.

on a side note - the Sienna i have found has a very very significant differentiator to the sequioa and to other minivans of it's class in general :
the second row seats can be moved fore and aft.
this is crucial to tall people especially with kids in the back with the front seats all the way back.

with the second row seats also moved all the way back the distance between front row seats and second row seats is unmatched as far as i know.
this includes such behemoth vehicles as the Lincoln Navigator L version etc etc.

background info from car and driver
Sequioa Second Row Leg Room (inches) 40.9
Navigator L Second Row Leg Room (inches) 42.6 (longest distance listed on C&D i believe)
sienna listed as 37.6 but only because they do not list the min and max when seats are moved...
if anyone knows of any other vehicles with this particular hidden trait let me know.
i had to testsit and fit car seats in A LOT of vehicles to find out this info.