Rope for DIY soft shackles

MartinDWhite

New member
The only remaining time that I use a metal shackle is when I need to use a pulley block to change the direction of pull (because my pulley block has thin edges), or hook to someone else's attachment points that still have sharp edges. The pulley block situation will be resolved soon with the 7P style pulley blocks, but I will still carry hard shackles for other peoples attachment points.
 

outback97

Adventurer
Wesspur. Tree climbing CO. They sell mill ends under "Specials" then clearance rope.

Thanks for the suggestion. In looking through their available items, how does one know which would be suitable for a DIY soft shackle? Would you just need to google the specs of the different ropes they are selling?

Soft shackles for recovery applications?

I would think that UHMWPE (dyneema, spectra, etc.) is the only way to go. Easy to splice too.

Do any of the ones listed at Wesspur match these types?
 
please excuse my ignorance.i didn't know soft shackles were a thing.i honestly can't see why anyone would swap a rope shackle for a metal one.but,to each his own i guess.

Classic - a statement saying you know nothing about them.

Followed by an opinion on the matter.

This is the problem with the internet/forums/social media in a nutshell.

How about you do some research and then form an opinion then state your position; rather then just typing something up based on nothing


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MartinDWhite

New member
The round grooved thingy inside a block, Is it a pulley or a sheave ?
As a legitimate ’ExPo guy its the question to plague idle moments.

OMG, I didn't know the difference between a pulley and a sheave, in fact had never heard of a sheave. Thanks to google I do now. Soooo......as soon as I get some 7P style sheaves I will stop carrying the steel pulley blocks, and when needed on the trail I will build a pulley system from the sheaves and soft shackles.
 

highwest

Well-known member
Do any of the ones listed at Wesspur match these types?
Amsteel Blue.

My experience is from sailing, so I’ve only sourced it from marine supply places in the past - they have a few UHMWPE options, depending on need. Vehicle recovery soft shackles are the same as marine soft shackles, but usually a little bigger.
 

Low_Sky

Member
Thanks for the suggestion. In looking through their available items, how does one know which would be suitable for a DIY soft shackle? Would you just need to google the specs of the different ropes they are selling?



Do any of the ones listed at Wesspur match these types?

Amsteel Blue is the only rope I found on their website that is suitable for making off-road recovery gear for trucks and SUVs. Amsteel Blue is the “gold standard” brand name product for this type of rope and is priced accordingly. If you’re trying to stay cheap, the easiest and most cost effective way to do this is going to be to buy a cheap synthetic winch rope on Amazon and cut it up. A 100’ winch line will net you a 50’ extension and 3 soft shackles (maybe 4 if you’re economical with your excess/waste).


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greengreer

Adventurer
The issue with dyneema in this situation is the low melting point. When you have a rope on rope connection, even minimal movement under high loads can cause a ton of friction and melt the fibers. Technora or vectran are much more heat tolerant but self abrade.
For a snatch type situation I would stick to steel and try to engineer the textile (strap, rope, etc) to be the weakest link in your system.
 

Low_Sky

Member
The issue with dyneema in this situation is the low melting point. When you have a rope on rope connection, even minimal movement under high loads can cause a ton of friction and melt the fibers. Technora or vectran are much more heat tolerant but self abrade.
For a snatch type situation I would stick to steel and try to engineer the textile (strap, rope, etc) to be the weakest link in your system.

I can’t even look at mine too hard without melting them. (Sarcasm)

9b527d6a61466463cd4ca69d2e5665e8.jpg


Dyneema melts at about 144C. It’s rated up to 70C but brief exposure to higher temperatures is ok with no significant loss of performance. If you’re really worried about melting it with line settling during a pull, get it wet. Water doesn’t derate the breaking strength and it triples the rope-on-rope abrasion life.

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Low_Sky

Member
I want to make a couple of my own soft shackles, so I'm looking for a source for the proper kind of rope to start with.

Thanks

OP, since it sounds like you’re learning as you go here, I’ll give you another pointer.

http://l-36.com/high_strength_soft_shackle.php

This is the soft shackle I prefer to tie. It’s not the easiest to tie, but I think it’s the best for a couple reasons.

One, the knot at the end with the tails tucked back into the legs of the shackle WILL NOT pull out. UHMPE rope is extremely slippery and the simpler knots with tails hanging out can be pulled out if not seated well and monitored.

Two, the tails being tucked in doubles the OD of the shackle below the knot, that the eye cinches around. The eye is the weak point of the shackle, and the larger the bend radius you give it (the OD below the knot), the stronger the eye will be.

(EDIT: Excuse me, tucking the tails doubles the *cross sectional area* below the knot, increasing the *diameter* by 40%, not doubling it. Running low on sleep this week.)

The author over at L-36 mentions that just using bigger line is a better way of managing shackle strength than trying to optimize the design of the knots, but for 3/8”, 7/16”, 1/2” rope, going up a rope size can add significantly to the cost of the shackle (more expensive rope and you need more length), and makes the shackle fatter and harder to feed through small holes.


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hemifoot

Observer
Classic - a statement saying you know nothing about them.

Followed by an opinion on the matter.

This is the problem with the internet/forums/social media in a nutshell.

How about you do some research and then form an opinion then state your position; rather then just typing something up based on nothing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
get over yourself, hypocrite.your opinion is more valid than mine?don't think so.you're not above the rest of the internet trash when you come in at the end of the conversation and drop a ************ opinion and contribute nothing to the thread.classic troll move.look it up.
 
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Low_Sky

Member
How about soapy water ? Should reduce friction another triple.
Cant be a legitimate ’ExPo Guy without going to crazy extremes.

I carry dish soap for tire bead lube and general cleanliness, but I draw the line at soaping recovery gear.

I just included the point about the water because it was right there on the data sheet when I went looking for melting points, and we were getting stupidly academic about stuff that doesn’t really happen if you’re halfway careful about your rigging.


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OP, since it sounds like you’re learning as you go here, I’ll give you another pointer.

http://l-36.com/high_strength_soft_shackle.php

This is the soft shackle I prefer to tie. It’s not the easiest to tie, but I think it’s the best for a couple reasons.

One, the knot at the end with the tails tucked back into the legs of the shackle WILL NOT pull out. UHMPE rope is extremely slippery and the simpler knots with tails hanging out can be pulled out if not seated well and monitored.

Two, the tails being tucked in doubles the OD of the shackle below the knot, that the eye cinches around. The eye is the weak point of the shackle, and the larger the bend radius you give it (the OD below the knot), the stronger the eye will be.

(EDIT: Excuse me, tucking the tails doubles the *cross sectional area* below the knot, increasing the *diameter* by 40%, not doubling it. Running low on sleep this week.)

The author over at L-36 mentions that just using bigger line is a better way of managing shackle strength than trying to optimize the design of the knots, but for 3/8”, 7/16”, 1/2” rope, going up a rope size can add significantly to the cost of the shackle (more expensive rope and you need more length), and makes the shackle fatter and harder to feed through small holes.


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Great info! I have saved the link you posted to go over more in detail later!

Cheers!


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MOguy

Explorer
When you buy rope or cable it is probably rated for a straight pull. When you buy a steel shackle the shackle will be rated as a shackle (not sure about soft shackles). Do not assume that when you take cable or rope and bend it and tie it in a knots, or however the cable is held to make a loop, that it still can handle the same weight.
 

Low_Sky

Member
When you buy rope or cable it is probably rated for a straight pull. When you buy a steel shackle the shackle will be rated as a shackle (not sure about soft shackles). Do not assume that when you take cable or rope and bend it and tie it in a knots, or however the cable is held to make a loop, that it still can handle the same weight.

The rigging shop I buy rope from sells soft shackles made from the same rope and tied the same way I tie mine. They rate them at 1.5x the base rope tensile rating. They are not a hobby shop. They are an industrial rigging supply company with in-house test equipment.

Soft shackles aren’t the same as metal shackles, but they also aren’t the hokum some people like to believe they are. They’re another tool in the tool box, and every tool should be used for its intended purpose within its design limits.


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MOguy

Explorer
The rigging shop I buy rope from sells soft shackles made from the same rope and tied the same way I tie mine. They rate them at 1.5x the base rope tensile rating. They are not a hobby shop. They are an industrial rigging supply company with in-house test equipment.

Soft shackles aren’t the same as metal shackles, but they also aren’t the hokum some people like to believe they are. They’re another tool in the tool box, and every tool should be used for its intended purpose within its design limits.


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When you tie knots and make loops things change, depending on what you are doing this may or may not be an issue. How does your shop rate rope over what the manufacture states? I have no issue with soft shackles or using rope lines at all. Loops in cable and they way it is fastened also can change things.

Below are a few links from various sources that will explain things.

https://www.animatedknots.com/safety.php


https://www.rescueresponse.com/much-strength-rope-loose-tie-knot/

http://caves.org/section/vertical/nh/50/knotrope-hold.html
 
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