Scott Brady
Founder
Since these posts seem to be degrading into semantics, I am going to summarize my opinion on this subject here. Take my thoughts for what they are worth and form your own opinion. These are only suggestions based on my experiences.
1. Use the correct vehicle: Purchase a vehicle appropriate to your number of occupants and expected equipment. The Discovery I really is a small truck, and would be hard to load for four people on a long trip. Consider a larger vehicle like a RRC LWB, Defender 110, Land Cruiser 80/100, etc.
2. Pack lightweight and compact: Consider using products that nest well together and pack into systems. Snow Peak stuff is great for that, as is GSI. Use bedding that can compress like down sleeping bags and pillows. Use inflatable pads. Remove packaging if possible. Consolidate tools into tool rolls, etc. Think like a backpacker and it is amazing how small the kit ends up being. Remember, people ride around the world with the contents that can fit in the panniers of a motorcycle.
3. Get the weight down low: Work hard to get the heavy items down low. Install fuel tanks and water tanks at the frame level. Consider a footwell water tank, like the one from FrontRunner, which fits in the rear passenger footwell, getting the weight forward and low. Pack tools and recovery gear low. Put tools in tool rolls under the front seats if possible.
If at that point, you still have items that do not fit in the vehicle, a roof rack or trailer may be necessary.
Just the roof rack: I have always been pretty resistant to installing roof racks, but a few very valid arguments were made to me to the contrary. These are not my ideas, but I consider them compelling.
1. Photography/observation platform (Sinuhe)
2. Reserve capacity (John): Space and lashing point for the contents of another vehicle or for storing firewood or short-term loads.
3. Roof slider (Jack): Protect the expensive roof sheet metal with a replaceable or repairable rack. Solid idea.
So, I am all behind the idea of having an empty roof rack on the vehicle and will probably consider it for some of my vehicles. The weight can be limited with lightweight units and by putting other weight down low, below the pre-rack COG.
Trailer: I prefer using a trailer if I need a lot of additional space or several hundred pounds of additional equipment for a larger team or with a small vehicle. We needed to do that in the Arctic, to carry all of the required spares, safety equipment and filming/photography equipment. It takes weight off the tow vehicle and keeps the COG low. You can drop and then winch the trailer if needed. With trailer brakes, you can manage any "pushing" effect of the trailer. Of course, the trailer becomes a compromise on loose, technical climbs, as the wheels of the trailer do not drive. The trailer also allows use of a RTT (which are an advantage in comfort and convenience), all while keeping the COG low and staying under GVWR. Sometimes a trailer is the only solution available to a family of 4-5.
Rack with a load: If you must put a load on the roof (and all the options above are exhausted) go with light, bulky items and position them as far forward as possible. On a vehicle with long-travel coil suspension and a narrow track (like a Disco 1), keep the weight conservative. I have found roof loads of 100-120lbs. to be manageable with an experienced driver. On wider/more stable vehicles, this weight can increase slightly to the 150 range. Again, go with your gut. That heavy roof load is going to start to feel wrong on the road and trail and require much more driver input and slower speeds. Use this as your gauge and think about what might happen if you need to swerve to avoid a child somewhere in Uganda - yard sale.
Roof Tent: If you install a roof tent, consider doing so with the most simple and lightweight rack configuration possible and avoid additional items. Try to go with the smallest size and lightest weight RTT possible.
Variables and additional thoughts:
1. Driver Experience: The more experience the driver has, the better that person can manage a vehicle with a higher COG and anticipate and respond to hazards. This applies both to the trail and an emergency lane change on the highway. Be honest about your experience as a driver. The less experience, the more you should be conservative about roof load.
2. Greg brought up an interesting and valid point. Try to make sure your roof load is removable, if possible. This would allow emptying the roof at some odd crux in a road or trail, where you can carry the heavy items past the crux and then reload on the other side.
3. Understand that the additional weight will compromise stability on the trail on cambered slopes and when climbing ledges at an angle or when cross-axle. Avoid or scout technical, abandoned or heavily eroded routes. It just means that when you have a heavy roof load, your road speeds should go down, you should be more conservative in traffic and give lots of space to other vehicles when on highways. Think about what would happen if you needed to swerve suddenly, or dropped a tire off of MEX1 at 55 mph.
The reality is that when the route is conservative, people rarely have an issue with a heavy roof load. If you read the "flop" stories in this thread, they are all on more technical routes or on slippery/eroded terrain.
I prefer to avoid a heavy roof load because of my travel priorities, driving style and the fact that many of the routes I travel are completely unknown and often abandoned. And in all fairness, I am often traveling alone or with just Stephanie, so we have a lot more room available in our vehicles than a family of four.
Like I have said from the beginning - it is all a compromise. :smiley_drive:
1. Use the correct vehicle: Purchase a vehicle appropriate to your number of occupants and expected equipment. The Discovery I really is a small truck, and would be hard to load for four people on a long trip. Consider a larger vehicle like a RRC LWB, Defender 110, Land Cruiser 80/100, etc.
2. Pack lightweight and compact: Consider using products that nest well together and pack into systems. Snow Peak stuff is great for that, as is GSI. Use bedding that can compress like down sleeping bags and pillows. Use inflatable pads. Remove packaging if possible. Consolidate tools into tool rolls, etc. Think like a backpacker and it is amazing how small the kit ends up being. Remember, people ride around the world with the contents that can fit in the panniers of a motorcycle.
3. Get the weight down low: Work hard to get the heavy items down low. Install fuel tanks and water tanks at the frame level. Consider a footwell water tank, like the one from FrontRunner, which fits in the rear passenger footwell, getting the weight forward and low. Pack tools and recovery gear low. Put tools in tool rolls under the front seats if possible.
If at that point, you still have items that do not fit in the vehicle, a roof rack or trailer may be necessary.
Just the roof rack: I have always been pretty resistant to installing roof racks, but a few very valid arguments were made to me to the contrary. These are not my ideas, but I consider them compelling.
1. Photography/observation platform (Sinuhe)
2. Reserve capacity (John): Space and lashing point for the contents of another vehicle or for storing firewood or short-term loads.
3. Roof slider (Jack): Protect the expensive roof sheet metal with a replaceable or repairable rack. Solid idea.
So, I am all behind the idea of having an empty roof rack on the vehicle and will probably consider it for some of my vehicles. The weight can be limited with lightweight units and by putting other weight down low, below the pre-rack COG.
Trailer: I prefer using a trailer if I need a lot of additional space or several hundred pounds of additional equipment for a larger team or with a small vehicle. We needed to do that in the Arctic, to carry all of the required spares, safety equipment and filming/photography equipment. It takes weight off the tow vehicle and keeps the COG low. You can drop and then winch the trailer if needed. With trailer brakes, you can manage any "pushing" effect of the trailer. Of course, the trailer becomes a compromise on loose, technical climbs, as the wheels of the trailer do not drive. The trailer also allows use of a RTT (which are an advantage in comfort and convenience), all while keeping the COG low and staying under GVWR. Sometimes a trailer is the only solution available to a family of 4-5.
Rack with a load: If you must put a load on the roof (and all the options above are exhausted) go with light, bulky items and position them as far forward as possible. On a vehicle with long-travel coil suspension and a narrow track (like a Disco 1), keep the weight conservative. I have found roof loads of 100-120lbs. to be manageable with an experienced driver. On wider/more stable vehicles, this weight can increase slightly to the 150 range. Again, go with your gut. That heavy roof load is going to start to feel wrong on the road and trail and require much more driver input and slower speeds. Use this as your gauge and think about what might happen if you need to swerve to avoid a child somewhere in Uganda - yard sale.
Roof Tent: If you install a roof tent, consider doing so with the most simple and lightweight rack configuration possible and avoid additional items. Try to go with the smallest size and lightest weight RTT possible.
Variables and additional thoughts:
1. Driver Experience: The more experience the driver has, the better that person can manage a vehicle with a higher COG and anticipate and respond to hazards. This applies both to the trail and an emergency lane change on the highway. Be honest about your experience as a driver. The less experience, the more you should be conservative about roof load.
2. Greg brought up an interesting and valid point. Try to make sure your roof load is removable, if possible. This would allow emptying the roof at some odd crux in a road or trail, where you can carry the heavy items past the crux and then reload on the other side.
3. Understand that the additional weight will compromise stability on the trail on cambered slopes and when climbing ledges at an angle or when cross-axle. Avoid or scout technical, abandoned or heavily eroded routes. It just means that when you have a heavy roof load, your road speeds should go down, you should be more conservative in traffic and give lots of space to other vehicles when on highways. Think about what would happen if you needed to swerve suddenly, or dropped a tire off of MEX1 at 55 mph.
The reality is that when the route is conservative, people rarely have an issue with a heavy roof load. If you read the "flop" stories in this thread, they are all on more technical routes or on slippery/eroded terrain.
I prefer to avoid a heavy roof load because of my travel priorities, driving style and the fact that many of the routes I travel are completely unknown and often abandoned. And in all fairness, I am often traveling alone or with just Stephanie, so we have a lot more room available in our vehicles than a family of four.
Like I have said from the beginning - it is all a compromise. :smiley_drive:
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