Roof Rack Design Considerations

calicamper

Expedition Leader
My original statement is VERY reasonable....simple even.

It ( weight up high) is never the only option, it is just the compromise in design safety that some are willing to accept.

There are LOTS of other options out there for making vehicles, even 'short' ones, perform much better off-road. The best place to start is not making them have a high center of gravity. The best way to do that is not mounting things on the roof ( or even above the belt line of the body for that matter ). This isn't rocket science. The further the added weight is above the CoG the more effect it has on chassis dynamics. I'd much rather have some margin in the design, allowing the vehicle inspire driver confidence, than being a wallowing unpredictable dynamic mess.
Most drivers who think Jeeps are great. Also think wallowing crap driving dynamics are the norm. Not the exception. Heck the trend from sedans to SUVs makes 98% of all US vehicle buyers think wallowing crap handling is preferable to crisp well sorted handling lol
 

NatersXJ6

Explorer
Most drivers who think Jeeps are great. Also think wallowing crap driving dynamics are the norm. Not the exception. Heck the trend from sedans to SUVs makes 98% of all US vehicle buyers think wallowing crap handling is preferable to crisp well sorted handling lol

To be fair, most US sedans prior to the market transition also had “wallowing crap dynamics”. It might have even been a 1970s and 80s marketing goal. I remember people being excited when things would soak up bumps like a boat. ;)
 

R_Lefebvre

Expedition Leader
My original statement is VERY reasonable....simple even.

It ( weight up high) is never the only option, it is just the compromise in design safety that some are willing to accept.

There are LOTS of other options out there for making vehicles, even 'short' ones, perform much better off-road. The best place to start is not making them have a high center of gravity. The best way to do that is not mounting things on the roof ( or even above the belt line of the body for that matter ). This isn't rocket science. The further the added weight is above the CoG the more effect it has on chassis dynamics. I'd much rather have some margin in the design, allowing the vehicle inspire driver confidence, than being a wallowing unpredictable dynamic mess.

Ok, I'll play.

So what is your solution for storing a family of four worth of camping equipment, recovery gear, etc in a mid-size SUV where the rear seat is in use?
 

NatersXJ6

Explorer
While hauling some lumber last night I thought of another design consideration:

If you use tubing, keeping it to 1” or smaller means most ratchet strap hooks can hook to your rails easily. If you haul lots of variable stuff, this can be important.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
Ok, I'll play.

So what is your solution for storing a family of four worth of camping equipment, recovery gear, etc in a mid-size SUV where the rear seat is in use?

If people can camp out of a backpack, or off a motorcycle, you just aren't trying that hard. Take less stuff. Take smaller stuff. Take lighter stuff.

UA14.png

If I can do a 3000+ mile trip with two people over 13 days, with an 4WOR Ultimate Adventure trip in the middle, out of my 1940s flat fender Jeep, I think most people can get by with a full size SUV even if they take 4 people. The load-out in that picture included camping gear for a 4-5 day stretch, food, water, spare parts, tools, recovery gear, rain gear, and more. Nothing mounted on the back. As little as possible mounted up high.
 

thebmrust

Active member
Can we get back to discussing the OP question of design:

“considerations which would go toward a system allowing SOME carrying capacity, draining of water accumulation, and MINIMALIZING road noise.”
 

thebmrust

Active member
Rayra has a thread that goes into detail of his roof rack and variations along the way.

Minimizing road noise will be sort of trial & error. Your vehicle is unique with your rack. The simple solution is a front air dam. But the angle and height will be a factor in how much noise it creates. That noise will
Also change with load. Your vehicles insulation will also be a factor. So maybe adding noise abatement is part of your buildout.

I’m not sure what you mean by water accumulation. Inside the tubes/frame or inside the rack? Most racks are open, not solid wall tubs. You can cap the tubing with plastic or weld them closed.

Which brings up another option; manufactured pods (Thule, Yakima, Packasport). Those are fully enclosed. Capacity is limited to what fits when you’re close it.
 

Gnarwhal

New member
Truck2.jpg
Just throwing this in here.. I used an enclosed pod for a while, as referenced above. I actually really liked it because I didn't need to worry about what I put in there and weather, but I was pretty limiting on space.
 

irish44j

Well-known member
I like a flat-plate style side rail, which gives a lot of options for bolting things directly on without funky brackets or having to double-hole tubing. Plus you can put the lights right into the rail cutouts. Mine has square cross-tubes but flat sides and a metal fairing that helps with structure at the front. I also have an opening at the sunroof so I can just climb up easily through there with no need for the weight of a ladder (or I can climb up from the rear tire, no big deal). I don't carry much of there since this truck is huge anyhow, so it's usually empty (read: less wind noise/resistance/weight up high) other than the awning and water tank. But it's available if i need to throw something up there or whatever. So basically I use it for carrying stuff that needs to be up high (awning/water/lighting) and pretty much nothing else.

It has hidden tiedowns so less wind noise, and the composite chicken coop flooring really reduces wind noise over the bars and makes for a strong and lightweight platform.

Don't: Don't bolt it up there after one coat of paint if it's steel. Else you'll be chasing down little rust spots forever, which will inveitably drip down the sides of the vehicle. Paint it multiple coats with a good, thick, weatherproof paint. Things on the roof can get rusty and ratty-looking quick. Ask me how I know

Don't: Don't direct-wire everything. Have a junction box up there for lighting, etc. so you can disconnect things if the rack has to come off.

Do: if you use tubing with sealed ends, make sure you run a coat of seam sealer around ALL welds so water can't get into any little gaps in the welds, etc.

Do: keep it as low to the roof as possible. Just far enough so with a heavy load it wont' flex or touch the roof. At the roof peak in the center mine is about 1" clearance (more on the sides).

Don't: invest in high-dollar light bar or side lighting on the roof. I find that I rarely use mine (cheap ebay one) and when I do, I'm usually going slow offroad so the cheap ones are just fine. High-end ones with long-range optics are kind of pointless for slow-speed stuff (we use high-end ones for stage rally, but we're going 80mph in the woods at night and need the range). I totally don't get people who buy $500 light bars for the roof, unless they're desert-running or something. Just my opinion though. Maybe some people need them for some reason.

Do: if possible, take off your factory rack and build feet to bolt directly into the factory roof mounts. Secures it better and allows it to sit lower on the roof than mounting across factory crossbars or whatever.


Viq3fwJh.jpg


DBzZGPGh.jpg


--

on my "fun" rig I have a lighter-weight rack I built that basically holds a smaller awning, some lights, and a rifle case that I got to fit my traction boards since I prefer to have them stowed away out of sight but dont' want to put muddy stuff inside.

8QdKpDIh.jpg


the forward extensions are for branch risers, though admittedly the places I go I rarely attach them since it's not usually heavy scrub.

iGamGMeh.jpg
 
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pith helmet

Well-known member
I have considered the grating as well. Glad to know it helps. I agree with the rust drips advice. I finally took mine off and touched up all the spots with Excel silicon. Helped a lot but mine has a Slide out part and and water gets in that way. Oh well.
 

irish44j

Well-known member
I have considered the grating as well. Glad to know it helps. I agree with the rust drips advice. I finally took mine off and touched up all the spots with Excel silicon. Helped a lot but mine has a Slide out part and and water gets in that way. Oh well.

yeah, i'm up there every 6 months with some black silicone and a little brush to touch up spots because I was too impatient to do it right the first time and am too lazy to take it back down and re-do it lol.

Also added a couple other pics to my post of my other rack. The white chikcen coop flooring stays cooler, but I've heard it may break down in UV faster than the black stuff. TBD. Doing fine after a year. Also it's easy to take off if you want to clean the roof under the rack, etc.
 

Oscar Mike Gulf Yankee

Well-known member
I've had many racks before, on my 62 VW Bug I used a tractor innertube tied down with a 4x4 1/2 inch plywood deck tied on top, I could tie stuff on to that and when I got to the river it turned into my fishing/swim platform. Used the same system on my '72 Volvo 145S wagon that had the roof rack rails. In the 60's and 70's we weren't concerned about MPG and all radios were loud enough to drowned out the noises created. Miss that 145S.

My engineering has evolved over the ages, I'm now thinking of a sheet of expanded aluminum sheet setting in a 2" angle aluminum frame and 1 1/2 " aluminum flat stock running across tacked to the angle frame about every 12" under the expanded stock. I'm thinking of two sections, 42" X 36", one to use on the Jeep rails and both bolted together on the F-150. Out in the garage I have a broken wind deflector off my truck, I may be able to cut that down and attach it to the leading edge of the platform, it might work. I'd just spot weld the thing together.

Noise seems to resonate tubes and square stock on racks or baskets, with the holes being much smaller in that diamond shape of expended stock I'm hoping the pitch will be high enough only my dog will hear it. BTW, if you have holes in tubbing, you'll have a flute playing on your roof.

Anything you put on the roof will cause turbulence which will resonate at some speed, a solid wind deflector large enough to shield the load will also vibrate at some speed. Since you probably don't have a wind tunnel to play with you'll need to go by trial and error I'd say.

The reason for a rack, for me, is to put small bags of wet and dirty clothes or other soft bags out of the vehicle.
 

GBGCR4x4

Member
I like a flat-plate style side rail, which gives a lot of options for bolting things directly on without funky brackets or having to double-hole tubing. Plus you can put the lights right into the rail cutouts. Mine has square cross-tubes but flat sides and a metal fairing that helps with structure at the front. I also have an opening at the sunroof so I can just climb up easily through there with no need for the weight of a ladder (or I can climb up from the rear tire, no big deal). I don't carry much of there since this truck is huge anyhow, so it's usually empty (read: less wind noise/resistance/weight up high) other than the awning and water tank. But it's available if i need to throw something up there or whatever. So basically I use it for carrying stuff that needs to be up high (awning/water/lighting) and pretty much nothing else.

It has hidden tiedowns so less wind noise, and the composite chicken coop flooring really reduces wind noise over the bars and makes for a strong and lightweight platform.

Don't: Don't bolt it up there after one coat of paint if it's steel. Else you'll be chasing down little rust spots forever, which will inveitably drip down the sides of the vehicle. Paint it multiple coats with a good, thick, weatherproof paint. Things on the roof can get rusty and ratty-looking quick. Ask me how I know

Don't: Don't direct-wire everything. Have a junction box up there for lighting, etc. so you can disconnect things if the rack has to come off.

Do: if you use tubing with sealed ends, make sure you run a coat of seam sealer around ALL welds so water can't get into any little gaps in the welds, etc.

Do: keep it as low to the roof as possible. Just far enough so with a heavy load it wont' flex or touch the roof. At the roof peak in the center mine is about 1" clearance (more on the sides).

Don't: invest in high-dollar light bar or side lighting on the roof. I find that I rarely use mine (cheap ebay one) and when I do, I'm usually going slow offroad so the cheap ones are just fine. High-end ones with long-range optics are kind of pointless for slow-speed stuff (we use high-end ones for stage rally, but we're going 80mph in the woods at night and need the range). I totally don't get people who buy $500 light bars for the roof, unless they're desert-running or something. Just my opinion though. Maybe some people need them for some reason.

Do: if possible, take off your factory rack and build feet to bolt directly into the factory roof mounts. Secures it better and allows it to sit lower on the roof than mounting across factory crossbars or whatever.


Viq3fwJh.jpg


DBzZGPGh.jpg


--

on my "fun" rig I have a lighter-weight rack I built that basically holds a smaller awning, some lights, and a rifle case that I got to fit my traction boards since I prefer to have them stowed away out of sight but dont' want to put muddy stuff inside.

8QdKpDIh.jpg


the forward extensions are for branch risers, though admittedly the places I go I rarely attach them since it's not usually heavy scrub.

iGamGMeh.jpg
I really, really like the design of these racks, especially that on top of what seems to be a Land Cruiser!

I'm a big fan of having a bit of a taller rack. Despite the noise it makes wen driving, it allows me to reach beneath the rack to take off my tenta bit faster and easily.
 

irish44j

Well-known member
I really, really like the design of these racks, especially that on top of what seems to be a Land Cruiser!

I'm a big fan of having a bit of a taller rack. Despite the noise it makes wen driving, it allows me to reach beneath the rack to take off my tenta bit faster and easily.

Actually it's a Dodge Raider (aka Mitsubishi Montero/Pajero). But pretty similar in size and appearance (and with a V6)

uHFJrMQh.jpg


unless you meant the first one, which is a Sequoia (so a bit larger than a Land Cruiser)

e8y79yth.jpg
 

burningac1d

New member
Actually it's a Dodge Raider (aka Mitsubishi Montero/Pajero). But pretty similar in size and appearance (and with a V6)

uHFJrMQh.jpg


unless you meant the first one, which is a Sequoia (so a bit larger than a Land Cruiser)

e8y79yth.jpg
Great, thank you for sharing! It should be a lot of free space and opportunities here! But I'd prefer more standard racks like this in case then you're transport bikes
 
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