Researching an Overland Build - Seeking Feedback

themeec

Member
TL;DR
Considering Stewart & Stevenson M1079. Have small shop, not big shop. Pros/Cons?

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Quick backstory:
Jointly owned and renovated a few sailboats over the years with my parents. Kept getting bigger and bigger until we had to rent rigs to tow the things. I needed a second vehicle with 4WD, plus it would be nice for it to pull dual-duty as the boat-hauler. Was disgusted with the price and fragility of current consumer trucks, so looked into industrial models. The more I looked, the more I realized your average F-450 utility truck, or what have you, could be easily re-purposed into a pre-packed, ready to go, outdoorsmobile (seriously, all the cargo space on those things). Thus begins the hunt, and the seeds of evil are planted.

Fast-forward quite a few years:
Parents split and me moving on to built another startup company, yada yada, have long laid the boats to rest. So with towing out of the picture, I started looking at other alternatives. A key one came up, as an old family friend who's Synchro Vanagon's transmission had given up the ghost, had gone with the decision to do a 4WD conversion. His preference of the 4WD swap was far and away in favor of it over the old original Synchro, plus he was very complementary of the price of the swap vs. trying to find a similar Synchro for a reasonable price. So I figured I had a clear route to take: Get a cheap Westy, throw in a Subie motor, do the 4WD conversion, and voila! A capable little offroad RV to tackle our largely road-free fair state of Idaho.

The primary issue I began to discover with this plan, was that I had failed to take in the financial factor in all this. My friend had the advantage of several things, I found. For one, he already had a Synchro as a donor for the swap (something I soon realized once looking up shops who will do the 4WD swap), and secondly, he had already done the motor swap some years earlier, saving him that expense as well. Thirdly, he guy that did the swap was a close buddy of his, so he definitely got a sweet deal on the whole affair. So in short, the omission of these details kind of resulted in this whole master plan turning up with a rather large up-front price tag for a vehicle ready to roll as intended.

Due to this I started researching other options. Looked back into the truck side of things, but the problems were consistent, in that most current consumer trucks are simply too fragile as stock in the Idaho backcountry, and overpriced to boot. The level of modification required to bring these grocery-getters up to snuff escalates really quickly, and in the end you wind up with a great truck, but no real living space, unless you're willing to drop a pretty penny on further mods, or if handy enough, fabricate yourself an RV box.

Enter the expedition vehicles. Came across a few builds, but $400k custom rigs were too rich for my blood, albeit nice. Dismissed it initially, until further drooling build posts resulted in my noticing the pattern of fairly simply utility trucks being the foundation for these. After a bit of sifting through some DIY threads, I landed on the Stewart and Stevenson LMTV. Relatively cheap, even for nice examples, and for the most part, simply built with commonly available parts. Some of the Caterpillar bits get spendy, but as a BMW owner, I'm more or less brainwashed at this point on parts pricing. It's key points of resistance for most builders, the low top speed, bad mileage, and mediocre paved-road experience weren't major concerns for me, since Idaho goes from 1-to-0-roads in 0.5 seconds. The CTIS and overall ruggedness of the vehicle, along with the upfront cost (even assuming most major repairs to said CTIS, air brakes, hoses, new engine, etc) were appealing to say the least.

One big problem, however. I have a lot of experience with RV renovation (Remember all those boats? Yeah, we bought the shitpiles no one else dared touch, and resurrected them with a lot of elbow grease and cash) so I wasn't concerned about the buildout of the finer things for the interior and general function of an off-grid living space, but there are some critical things I lack for anything further:
  • A big shop with a lift (engine/axles swaps, etc)
  • Fabrication skills (the kind one needs to build an RV box)
  • Tools for fabrication of said RV box
So after a bit of further research, I discovered the M1079 Van. Your basic 2 1/2 ton Stewart & Stevenson, but with a box already on the back! Albeit a small one, but quite serviceable, and looking around the web, seems like a popular choice with other DIYers looking for a quicker start. That being said, they are kind of scarce. I am willing to wait, however, as I find that the more I look into it, I am really looking for a vehicle that I can slowly invest in to build it up slowly, and while the M1079 is admittedly overkill for what I'll be doing initially, seems to be a good fit for polishing into a true adventure rig capable of taking on the backcountry of Idaho, or better yet, my home state of Alaska.

The more I look, the better the M1079 appeals to me. That being said, I haven't pulled the trigger on anything at this point. While I haven't seen any other alternatives that appeal to me (yet). I'd love to hear the community weigh in on this one. Looking forward to what you have to provide.
 
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Third

Member
The big issue with the M1079 is price. People bid too much on them, pay too much for them, and ask too much for them. As you noted, size is also somewhat limiting at only 12 foot.

Your three bullet points pretty much describe my situation (although I am going to gain access to a shop for a month to do my initial mount). IMO, an ambulance box conversion on an M1078 is an affordable way to go that offers more options. Ranging from 12 to 14 feet (with an occasional rare 16 footer out there) you can find the same (and more) floor plan space as the M1079 for a fraction of the cost. Ambo boxes are tough (see YouTube rollover tests).

The only potential downside of an ambo box is interior height. The M1079 is an 8' habitat and most ambos will be 5'6" to 6'. But the ambo box can also be placed lower on the frame (opposed to being 8' over the LMTV bed) which translates into a favorable COG when using the ambo box.

Given the cost of an M1079, you can purchase a clean M1078 and an abmo box (or even an entire ambulance) for less.
 

themeec

Member
The big issue with the M1079 is price. People bid too much on them, pay too much for them, and ask too much for them. As you noted, size is also somewhat limiting at only 12 foot.

Your three bullet points pretty much describe my situation (although I am going to gain access to a shop for a month to do my initial mount). IMO, an ambulance box conversion on an M1078 is an affordable way to go that offers more options. Ranging from 12 to 14 feet (with an occasional rare 16 footer out there) you can find the same (and more) floor plan space as the M1079 for a fraction of the cost. Ambo boxes are tough (see YouTube rollover tests).
The only potential downside of an ambo box is interior height. The M1079 is an 8' habitat and most ambos will be 5'6" to 6'. But the ambo box can also be placed lower on the frame (opposed to being 8' over the LMTV bed) which translates into a favorable COG when using the ambo box.

Given the cost of an M1079, you can purchase a clean M1078 and an abmo box (or even an entire ambulance) for less.

I'm glad you brought the M1078 up, as I had noticed they are definitely far easier to come by, usually in better shape, and definitely cheaper. I imagine the M1079's commanding a premium is likely due to people just like myself looking for an easier start. The 8' box definitely has appeal, despite the length, especially if one plans on spending much time living in one, but the added length would make things easier in terms of floor layout (although I did put together a fully-kitted Scamp complete with a toilet, so I guess anything's possible). I did also look and see if anyone was selling a separate AAR Van Shelter, but with no luck.

I'd be curious to know more if you have some more gory details around getting an ambo box on an M1078 (I spy that S&S Cargo in your profile pic) if possible?
 
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Have you looked at total composites boxes? They were initially build it yourself kits but they do have companies assembling them (and I think mounting them on a chassis you provide). https://totalcomposites.com/expedition-trucks-rvs/

If you're comfortable with interior fit out then it might be an option to get the body done and mounted and then go to town on the interior.
 

themeec

Member
Have you looked at total composites boxes? They were initially build it yourself kits but they do have companies assembling them (and I think mounting them on a chassis you provide). https://totalcomposites.com/expedition-trucks-rvs/

Good point, unless you know off the top of your head, I'll have to check with them and see what a shell would run. Would definitely be easier than hacking an old ambo box apart. Thanks for the link!

On a side note, I've seen pics of that HEMTT of your all over the web while researching builds ... bad-ass setup!
 
Good point, unless you know off the top of your head, I'll have to check with them and see what a shell would run. Would definitely be easier than hacking an old ambo box apart. Thanks for the link!

On a side note, I've seen pics of that HEMTT of your all over the web while researching builds ... bad-ass setup!

Thanks! It's a fun truck. Cost is dependent on size but it seemed very reasonable. If I recall something like $15k for a pretty decent size. If you have time you should get out to the Northwest Overland Rally outside Leavenworth. It's a pretty good time and the owner of Total Composites was there with his truck last year. He's also on Instagram under total composites. I looked at his truck in some detail and it seemed like it was great quality. He just started working with Acela trucks out of Montana (check them out if you haven't) which might be a good option for you too.
 

themeec

Member
Just wanted to follow up (cheers @Third for the truck reality check, and @kevindhamilton for the box source), as I got in contact with Total Composites, and the prices for a box, what they call their "Fuso" kit, are quite reasonable, less than $13k for the 14'. The build of one of these kits looks like something I could handle easily. I have quite a few tools for working with those sorts of materials, thanks to all the boat shenanigans in the past.

The cost of the truck donor is definitely less of a chore, switching over to the 1078 ... time to start hunting more seriously, methinks. Would still love to hear more input on the chassis donor though, if anyone has any opinions one way or the other regarding any vehicles similar in capacity/capabilities.
 

DzlToy

Explorer
Have to you spoken to people running the LMTV trucks as expedition, cross country or long distance travel vehicles? If not, you should visit an OvEx show and get some real world feed back. They are neither comfortable, nor economical to operate. They are military vehicles, intended to travel at 45-55 MPH in convoy and be continually maintained by the motorpool; read: unlimited labour and budget.
 

Coachgeo

Explorer
Have to you spoken to people running the LMTV trucks as expedition, cross country or long distance travel vehicles? If not, you should visit an OvEx show and get some real world feed back. They are neither comfortable, nor economical to operate. They are military vehicles, intended to travel at 45-55 MPH in convoy and be continually maintained by the motorpool; read: unlimited labour and budget.
ahhhhh yaaa...... NO.

The A1's with the C7 CAT with an axle ratio change after they are renewed do fine on highway and or no more complicated to maintain than any truck that is heavy electronic..... which is the case for any modern truck. Yes like any older truck if you get a used one you will need to renew it first... less you renew it... the more the risk you will be renewing it as you travel. (going half and half myself)... Or buy one already renewed.
 

Coachgeo

Explorer
...

The cost of the truck donor is definitely less of a chore, switching over to the 1078 ... time to start hunting more seriously, methinks. ...
you want one with a C7 CAT and also the axle ratio change or do it yourself...better yet the new cats meow upgrade would be an axle change with axles created by Bryce Wasielak (best of the available ratios and air lockers built in)
 

themeec

Member
you want one with a C7 CAT and also the axle ratio change or do it yourself...better yet the new cats meow upgrade would be an axle change with axles created by Bryce Wasielak (best of the available ratios and air lockers built in)

Coach, thanks for weighing in. However, after 15 grueling weeks I have an M1078 on it's way up this week. Was one of the rigs that was reset, so is looking pretty fresh for being a non-runner. Attached a couple auction pics. I'll send more when I have it. (Or you can find me over at Steel Soldiers, I've been soaking up info from that place like crazy!)
 

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