With the high quality paper stock and glossy print, its a toss up.:ylsmoke:
Recovery how-not-to
- Thread starter Spikepretorius
- Start date
With the high quality paper stock and glossy print, its a toss up.:ylsmoke:
M
MuddyOval
Guest
I once used my dog's nylabone for that. Worked great.
Antichrist
Expedition Leader
Was the the Bourne Ultimatum where we saw the damage a rolled up magazine will do?
expoxj
Adventurer
craig333
Expedition Leader
If you're going to put yourself in places where recovery becomes a good possibility, you need good recover points. I my younger days (much much younger) I pulled the front bumper right off my brothers truck.
There are things I might do if was solo and stranded but I can't believe they actually recommended that.
There are things I might do if was solo and stranded but I can't believe they actually recommended that.
That is a huge can of worms and could have endless answers. Of course in off roading a good planned out point for attaching a strap is key for anything beyond a vehicle set up for the most basic of dirt roads. Its necessary as many Off Roaders have found out the hard way. I have done everything from running a strap across the back seat of a car and out both doors while pulling from the back to going with several points ( 4j-hooks) to distribute the weight evenly. This is worse with things like RVs that have a weak body that usually overhangs the frame, suspension or any real point for attachment. Take a look at www.awdirect.com for any idea of the endless products they sell for the recovery industry many of which are very helpful in off roading as well.
toyota_jon
Adventurer
This is a good post. We all learn more from mistakes than from our sucesses. Since this site has hardly any of the "hold my beer" types learning situations like this rarely come up. But this is a good chance for people to learn the way's to correctly do things, and more importantly the ways NOT to do things. recently I was out recovering a truck and had to secure two straps together. We didn't have an issue of OJ handy so we used a small tree branch. Not ideal but better than a d-shackle by far.
Antichrist
Expedition Leader
x2, I've never seen any that were better than grade 70.
I have thought about getting a set however because I'm always, it seems, pulling stalled cars off the highway and they'd be fine for that. I've ended up leaving a number of cars backing up traffic because they have nothing to hook to and no one else wants to stop to help push it out of traffic by hand.
TreeTopFlyer
Adventurer
Bonehead recovery
I'll provide a "hey watch this" recovery for you guys.
But it's a long story that needs background info besides just pics. Last weekend we had a BBQ down at the water. Lots of people. Our lake has been dropping at a staggering pace, but the upside is we often get great sandy beaches. But, that sand is unforgiving and will become quick sand in a heartbeat. You have to be careful driving on it. I have pulled out many people and seen many more not paying attention or know where to drive and hit a sink hole.
So, we have a bunch of people at the water, I leave on a boat to go watch the fireworks up river. When I get back it's dark, I can make out a truck close to the water, I say to a buddy, WTH is that truck doing so close to the water. When I get on land, it appears all hell had broken loose. No less than 4 trucks stuck at one time.
The story is one of the women there driving a lifted jeep decided to leave via going forward thru the water and around, instead of just backing up like a wise person would have done. She sinks a little and gets stuck. My dad said they were getting a chain out to hook up when the woman's son said to pull it out from the front. Conventional wisdom would have said come out the way you came in. Plus going from the front meant getting closer to the water. Sure enough, when the other jeep approached from the front to hook up, it sank. Now two cars stuck. Now, these are small light vehicles, get a normal truck to pull them out, they are stuck that bad. No, the guy with the 4wd diesel Megacab there pulls around to get the 2nd jeep out. He gets that one out, then goes for the first jeep and he sinks. Then some guy with a 4wd lifted dually tries to get the Megacab out, he gets stuck but does get the megacab out. Somehow the dually gets out but the megacab gets stuck again. Total CF going on.
This is about when I disembark off the boat. I look around and the scene is pretty indescribable. I call it cowboy chaos, where everyone wants to be a hero but nobody is actually thinking about the best approach. Everyone wants to play with the toys and isn't concerned with success in the recovery, they just want to try and pull the person out.
Most everyone had been drinking all day long it was now 11pm. I looked around and saw every single thing you shouldn't be doing in a recovery. I shook my head, got in my truck and left. I had everything in my truck to get them out but I wasn't about to step in that mess. They had torn up the beach pulling other trucks out, ruts everywhere. Luckily it was our property and not someone else's but still it frustrated me. It will be bladed with the tractor and smoothed out when the water drops another foot or so at the end of this week.
So with that said, here are the pics I took.
The first thing that comes to mind when I got off the boat and looking at everyone scrambling to get to use their toys, NOT ONE OF YOU HAS A SHOVEL? They spent time to go back to the shop and get a winch for my dads jeep, but no one is digging trying to get the dodge out. It's buried to the rails. Needs at least 3:1 to get out.
So they think they can pull it out with a 8K winch on the jeep, they did use a snatch block but that is only 16K. Note that the line is not even spooled out 20ft, they have some concoction going on at the chain, not sure if it's a comealong or what. NO dampener for if the line snaps. It gets better...
Since the jeep was not heavy enough, they decide to tie to a dodge quadcab...sideways hooked to either the step bars or the frame itself
The truck still slid sideways, so they hooked on another vehicle...drum roll, some nissan murano or something like that. I am telling you, everyone wanted in on this, everyone wanted to play johnny hero.:REOutShootinghunter
This is all I saw before leaving. Usually I help. But this was ridiculous. Everyone wanted to play with the toys, no one really cared about actually getting the guy out that was stuck. Maybe they did, but it didn't seem like they were thinking too hard about what the best approach was.
I came back the next day because I had to break down my camp I had set up. The carnage was pretty amazing to the beach.
Yes, that is a tractor that is stuck as well. This is where it gets better
See those blade marks in the sand? They thought they could scoop out sand in front of the truck, the tractor started sinking. They couldn't back up so they decided to pull forward, sunk. Luckily they stopped before the tires got buried. The other idea I heard going around was they were gonna take the bucket and lift up the front bumper....:Wow1: ******!!!
We finally had to bring in the heavy hitter, the backhoe.
At first he was pulling parallel with the ground, it wasn't gonna budge, he had to pull up high at and angle to get the truck up and out.
18hrs later it was out. I did have the guy that was stuck smooth out his ruts, but it's still gonna take some grading with the blade to get it back to looking normal. I also reprimanded my dad for letting such a bunch of dumbsh!t happen. They are really lucky no one got hurt.
So, wargame this, besides not being an idiot and driving heavy vehicles onto quicksand to get smaller ones out what would you have done to get the megacab out?
My thinking was, take 15mins after the truck got stuck and think for a while. Don't haul @ss to your tool box to get chains and start hooking up shackles.
Next, get some damn shovels and dig till you have blisters. Everyone just though, hell we can pull it out. The truck tires were stuck it bog, suction was a huge factor. dig and get some boards.
They had a good 30,000lbs of vehicle weight btwn my truck, the dually, and another. Daisy chain those together for an anchor, then try winching out. Spool the winch out all the way, use a dampener blanket over the line. I still don't think 16K would have got this truck out, it's a good 9,000lbs stuck to the axles.
If that doesn't work, call it a day and get the backhoe.
Or, don't get stuck.
I'll provide a "hey watch this" recovery for you guys.
But it's a long story that needs background info besides just pics. Last weekend we had a BBQ down at the water. Lots of people. Our lake has been dropping at a staggering pace, but the upside is we often get great sandy beaches. But, that sand is unforgiving and will become quick sand in a heartbeat. You have to be careful driving on it. I have pulled out many people and seen many more not paying attention or know where to drive and hit a sink hole.
So, we have a bunch of people at the water, I leave on a boat to go watch the fireworks up river. When I get back it's dark, I can make out a truck close to the water, I say to a buddy, WTH is that truck doing so close to the water. When I get on land, it appears all hell had broken loose. No less than 4 trucks stuck at one time.
The story is one of the women there driving a lifted jeep decided to leave via going forward thru the water and around, instead of just backing up like a wise person would have done. She sinks a little and gets stuck. My dad said they were getting a chain out to hook up when the woman's son said to pull it out from the front. Conventional wisdom would have said come out the way you came in. Plus going from the front meant getting closer to the water. Sure enough, when the other jeep approached from the front to hook up, it sank. Now two cars stuck. Now, these are small light vehicles, get a normal truck to pull them out, they are stuck that bad. No, the guy with the 4wd diesel Megacab there pulls around to get the 2nd jeep out. He gets that one out, then goes for the first jeep and he sinks. Then some guy with a 4wd lifted dually tries to get the Megacab out, he gets stuck but does get the megacab out. Somehow the dually gets out but the megacab gets stuck again. Total CF going on.
This is about when I disembark off the boat. I look around and the scene is pretty indescribable. I call it cowboy chaos, where everyone wants to be a hero but nobody is actually thinking about the best approach. Everyone wants to play with the toys and isn't concerned with success in the recovery, they just want to try and pull the person out.
Most everyone had been drinking all day long it was now 11pm. I looked around and saw every single thing you shouldn't be doing in a recovery. I shook my head, got in my truck and left. I had everything in my truck to get them out but I wasn't about to step in that mess. They had torn up the beach pulling other trucks out, ruts everywhere. Luckily it was our property and not someone else's but still it frustrated me. It will be bladed with the tractor and smoothed out when the water drops another foot or so at the end of this week.
So with that said, here are the pics I took.
The first thing that comes to mind when I got off the boat and looking at everyone scrambling to get to use their toys, NOT ONE OF YOU HAS A SHOVEL? They spent time to go back to the shop and get a winch for my dads jeep, but no one is digging trying to get the dodge out. It's buried to the rails. Needs at least 3:1 to get out.
So they think they can pull it out with a 8K winch on the jeep, they did use a snatch block but that is only 16K. Note that the line is not even spooled out 20ft, they have some concoction going on at the chain, not sure if it's a comealong or what. NO dampener for if the line snaps. It gets better...
Since the jeep was not heavy enough, they decide to tie to a dodge quadcab...sideways hooked to either the step bars or the frame itself
The truck still slid sideways, so they hooked on another vehicle...drum roll, some nissan murano or something like that. I am telling you, everyone wanted in on this, everyone wanted to play johnny hero.:REOutShootinghunter
This is all I saw before leaving. Usually I help. But this was ridiculous. Everyone wanted to play with the toys, no one really cared about actually getting the guy out that was stuck. Maybe they did, but it didn't seem like they were thinking too hard about what the best approach was.
I came back the next day because I had to break down my camp I had set up. The carnage was pretty amazing to the beach.
Yes, that is a tractor that is stuck as well. This is where it gets better
See those blade marks in the sand? They thought they could scoop out sand in front of the truck, the tractor started sinking. They couldn't back up so they decided to pull forward, sunk. Luckily they stopped before the tires got buried. The other idea I heard going around was they were gonna take the bucket and lift up the front bumper....:Wow1: ******!!!
We finally had to bring in the heavy hitter, the backhoe.
At first he was pulling parallel with the ground, it wasn't gonna budge, he had to pull up high at and angle to get the truck up and out.
18hrs later it was out. I did have the guy that was stuck smooth out his ruts, but it's still gonna take some grading with the blade to get it back to looking normal. I also reprimanded my dad for letting such a bunch of dumbsh!t happen. They are really lucky no one got hurt.
So, wargame this, besides not being an idiot and driving heavy vehicles onto quicksand to get smaller ones out what would you have done to get the megacab out?
My thinking was, take 15mins after the truck got stuck and think for a while. Don't haul @ss to your tool box to get chains and start hooking up shackles.
Next, get some damn shovels and dig till you have blisters. Everyone just though, hell we can pull it out. The truck tires were stuck it bog, suction was a huge factor. dig and get some boards.
They had a good 30,000lbs of vehicle weight btwn my truck, the dually, and another. Daisy chain those together for an anchor, then try winching out. Spool the winch out all the way, use a dampener blanket over the line. I still don't think 16K would have got this truck out, it's a good 9,000lbs stuck to the axles.
If that doesn't work, call it a day and get the backhoe.
Or, don't get stuck.
tdesanto
Expedition Leader
Wow, that's quite a scenario.
I'm curious if anyone thought to air down to 5-10 psi when they started to sink before digging themselves any deeper?
I think your mention of a shovel is on target. Helping to reduce the suction around the stuck tires should have helped a lot.
I've often thought that using a hi-lift with a base and a lift-mate, when necessary, to lift a tire out of a hole and then filling in the hole or placing something underneath would also help.
I'm curious if anyone thought to air down to 5-10 psi when they started to sink before digging themselves any deeper?
I think your mention of a shovel is on target. Helping to reduce the suction around the stuck tires should have helped a lot.
I've often thought that using a hi-lift with a base and a lift-mate, when necessary, to lift a tire out of a hole and then filling in the hole or placing something underneath would also help.
I Leak Oil
Expedition Leader
....or a clue.
Antichrist
Expedition Leader
I wonder if any of them had one of these in their kit?
Scott Brady
Founder
I still think we need to work through the transit cluster issue.
1. A Transit Cluster does not replace proper connection points. All vehicles should have frame mounted recovery points.
2. There are scenarios when a well equipped/prepared traveler comes across a disabled or stuck vehicle that needs to be moved. I have found that frequently these vehicles do not have proper connection points. One example was a mini van that slid off the road south of Prescott and I needed to pull them out.
3. Without proper connection points, you still need to move this vehicle, so what is the correct connection method?
Again, I come back to how do you make a safe connection? I am not saying the transit cluster is the best method, but I have not seen a better one. Wrapping a strap around suspension components or axles is not an appropriate connection point. Neither is wrapping a strap around most bumpers, primarily because your nice strap will probably be damaged due to cutting.
So many new vehicles do not have frames or anything but plastic bumpers. I just do not see an appropriate connection point for a mini-van or Chevy Traverse other than a transit cluster.
It would be critical to dampen the recovery line should the transit cluster fail. My transit cluster is made from 5/16" chain, grade 70. 4,700 lb WLL, 18,800 lb. MBS.
A transit cluster is only used if there are no other (safer) connection methods available. I have found on most new vehicles without recovery points, the transit cluster is most often the only safe method.
I look forward to additional comments on this.
1. A Transit Cluster does not replace proper connection points. All vehicles should have frame mounted recovery points.
2. There are scenarios when a well equipped/prepared traveler comes across a disabled or stuck vehicle that needs to be moved. I have found that frequently these vehicles do not have proper connection points. One example was a mini van that slid off the road south of Prescott and I needed to pull them out.
3. Without proper connection points, you still need to move this vehicle, so what is the correct connection method?
Again, I come back to how do you make a safe connection? I am not saying the transit cluster is the best method, but I have not seen a better one. Wrapping a strap around suspension components or axles is not an appropriate connection point. Neither is wrapping a strap around most bumpers, primarily because your nice strap will probably be damaged due to cutting.
So many new vehicles do not have frames or anything but plastic bumpers. I just do not see an appropriate connection point for a mini-van or Chevy Traverse other than a transit cluster.
It would be critical to dampen the recovery line should the transit cluster fail. My transit cluster is made from 5/16" chain, grade 70. 4,700 lb WLL, 18,800 lb. MBS.
A transit cluster is only used if there are no other (safer) connection methods available. I have found on most new vehicles without recovery points, the transit cluster is most often the only safe method.
I look forward to additional comments on this.
Antichrist
Expedition Leader
No arguments from me. That's the sort of scenario I was talking about. I would only add that I would never use one in a kinetic recovery.