Ram Powerwagon vs Chevy Colorado vs Jeep Wrangler Rubicon vs Suzuki Samurai for Snow?

nickw

Adventurer
As others have said, depends on snow....the (3) typical situation I've run into:

1) Hard-packed snow and Ice; need pressure to the ground, heavier weight and/or narrower winter tires or a combo work well.

2) 1-2' of softer snow with ability to form ruts; 4wd, ground clearance and narrow(ish) tires.....

3) 2'+ soft snow; need flotation, lighter weight and/or larger tires with lower pressure.

Add to that snow types, powder, wet PNW concrete....along with temperature, if there is a icy base or can dig down into dirt etc....there is no one size fits all.

Deep snow requires low PSI to the ground which is a factor of vehicle weight and tire contact patch - big rig, bigger tires....

I don't think putting 37's on a 4-door Jeep is going to make much of a difference and may make it worse, not big enough to float and will offer a lot of resistance trying to work through deep snow....but once you get up to 40's on a 2-door, you are probably getting close, obviously those Artic trucks are the extreme.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
I don't think putting 37's on a 4-door Jeep is going to make much of a difference and may make it worse, not big enough to float and will offer a lot of resistance trying to work through deep snow....but once you get up to 40's on a 2-door, you are probably getting close, obviously those Artic trucks are the extreme.

even just 37s, with proper tire pressure, will be night and day better than stock in those various conditions.
Need to be able to get into the low single digits for the magic to start happening.
 

nickw

Adventurer
even just 37s, with proper tire pressure, will be night and day better than stock in those various conditions.
Need to be able to get into the low single digits for the magic to start happening.
Depends on the conditions, in soft snow you still may sink and make matters worse.
 

nickw

Adventurer
Worse than what?
An aired down 37 is going to sink less than a stock tire.
In deep snow a 37 is not enough for most rigs...but again, vehicle matters...on a Samurai maybe, on a F250 Tremor, absolutely not.

My point was big tires work in a very limited range of conditions, they still sink in most conditions and most rigs are limited by axle or bumper plow....but the big tires wont work better in many of the other conditions you'll encounter.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
In deep snow a 37 is not enough for most rigs...but again, vehicle matters...on a Samurai maybe, on a F250 Tremor, absolutely not.

My point was big tires work in a very limited range of conditions, they still sink in most conditions and most rigs are limited by axle or bumper plow....but the big tires wont work better in many of the other conditions you'll encounter.

Of course vehicle matters. You mentioned 37s on a Jeep......37s on a jeep will get you further up the road in deep snow than stock tires.
There is always going to be somewhere you can't go. You just need to get further than everyone else.
I've never had a situation where my tires where too large ?‍♂️
 

nickw

Adventurer
Of course vehicle matters. You mentioned 37s on a Jeep......37s on a jeep will get you further up the road in deep snow than stock tires.
There is always going to be somewhere you can't go. You just need to get further than everyone else.
I've never had a situation where my tires where too large ?‍♂️
You Willy's is one thing, like I said...small Jeep big tires....but in my experience and many others, semi-large tires work in a very narrow range of conditions and generally don't work as well in all the other condition you are likely to experience like ice, slush, glazed pavement, ice under soft snow, hard packed snow, etc, etc....

Something else to consider, none of the 'big' tires are proper snow tires like some of the smaller narrower options. I'd much rather have proper winter 235/85's over 37" AT's in 95% of conditions I've ever been in. You also stand a much better chance fitting chains to smaller/narrower tires. So indirectly, they have some other advantages. I've seen it many times, relatively stock rig with 235/85's out driving all the rigs fancy Jeeps with big tires....
 
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Metcalf

Expedition Leader
You Willy's is one thing, like I said...small Jeep big tires....but in my experience and many others, semi-large tires work in a very narrow range of conditions and generally don't work as well in all the other condition you are likely to experience like ice, slush, glazed pavement, ice under soft snow, hard packed snow, etc, etc....

Something else to consider, none of the 'big' tires are proper snow tires like some of the smaller narrower options. I'd much rather have proper winter 235/85's over 37" AT's in 95% of conditions I've ever been in. You also stand a much better chance fitting chains to smaller/narrower tires. So indirectly, they have some other advantages. I've seen it many times, relatively stock rig with 235/85's out driving all the rigs fancy Jeeps with big tires....

I don't know.....

I daily drove my old Dodge on 39's through Colorado winters for about 10 years.
I pulled a LOT of cars and trucks on small tires out of ditches.
Never once had to put chains on it. Never had to get pulled out of the ditch by anyone.



I daily drove my LX45 project through our worst winter in a decade on 40s.
Generally the same experience. I never thought.....if only I had some proper snow pattern 235s and chains.....
Pulled lots of people out of the ditch.
Tried two different sets of 40s on that one too.



Now I daily my newer F350 on 285/70R18s, and even with good 'snow' pattern tires, it's underwhelming in comparison to my other vehicles.
If I didn't have a half dozen other projects....it would be on 37-42" tires.....and will probably be some day.

I will say the number one performance difference enhancement in snow, be it on roads or in deep snow playing around, is air pressure.
That is one thing I have always done different than most people, I am always adjusting air pressure for the conditions.
Even the little tires on my F350, the difference between 65-50psi and 30psi is amazing. Then the same thing from 30 to 20, 20 to 10, etc.
I find that most people don't even know what pressure is in their tires.....80 psi on a narrow load range E tire in a pickup is miserable.

If I could add CTIS to every vehicle I own, I would.
I think the number one improvement in rubber tired off-road vehicle performance.

I'd love to see some different tread patterns available in larger tires. I do agree there is limited options in larger tires.
With proper air pressure, I don't think it is THAT big of a issue though.

I'd love to try a dedicated set of 'winter' big floaty tires on was pinned for studs.
I've had my eye on these for a few years as a viable option for getting studs in tires that are not pinned for them.

In my opinion, chains are only good for ICE, the last thing I want in deep snow is chains.
Airing down the tires just doesn't work with chains in my opinion.
I think studs would provide a bit of margin on ice and highly compacted snow.

I've been wheeling big big tires in snow for over 25 years now. This isn't a new thing to me. This isn't something I just looked at or noticed.
I've personally tried it both ways....a lot. I currently own vehicles set up both ways.
Have you?
 

nickw

Adventurer
I don't know.....

I daily drove my old Dodge on 39's through Colorado winters for about 10 years.
I pulled a LOT of cars and trucks on small tires out of ditches.
Never once had to put chains on it. Never had to get pulled out of the ditch by anyone.



I daily drove my LX45 project through our worst winter in a decade on 40s.
Generally the same experience. I never thought.....if only I had some proper snow pattern 235s and chains.....
Pulled lots of people out of the ditch.
Tried two different sets of 40s on that one too.



Now I daily my newer F350 on 285/70R18s, and even with good 'snow' pattern tires, it's underwhelming in comparison to my other vehicles.
If I didn't have a half dozen other projects....it would be on 37-42" tires.....and will probably be some day.

I will say the number one performance difference enhancement in snow, be it on roads or in deep snow playing around, is air pressure.
That is one thing I have always done different than most people, I am always adjusting air pressure for the conditions.
Even the little tires on my F350, the difference between 65-50psi and 30psi is amazing. Then the same thing from 30 to 20, 20 to 10, etc.
I find that most people don't even know what pressure is in their tires.....80 psi on a narrow load range E tire in a pickup is miserable.

If I could add CTIS to every vehicle I own, I would.
I think the number one improvement in rubber tired off-road vehicle performance.

I'd love to see some different tread patterns available in larger tires. I do agree there is limited options in larger tires.
With proper air pressure, I don't think it is THAT big of a issue though.

I'd love to try a dedicated set of 'winter' big floaty tires on was pinned for studs.
I've had my eye on these for a few years as a viable option for getting studs in tires that are not pinned for them.

In my opinion, chains are only good for ICE, the last thing I want in deep snow is chains.
Airing down the tires just doesn't work with chains in my opinion.
I think studs would provide a bit of margin on ice and highly compacted snow.

I've been wheeling big big tires in snow for over 25 years now. This isn't a new thing to me. This isn't something I just looked at or noticed.
I've personally tried it both ways....a lot. I currently own vehicles set up both ways.
Have you?
I've never had a rig with massive tires, but been around them enough to know I didn't want or need to go down that path. I'll never forget in college when when went snow wheeling in the Sierras and had to pull this guy out of snow drifts multiple time in a old Bronco with big Boggers while I was running circles around him in my Z71 with 265/75 BFG AT's.

That big dodge with mud tires wouldn't make it out of my neighborhood on a moderately snowy / icy day and I wouldn't even attempt to get on the highway. Now deep snow is a different animal of course and to my point, "deep" has a different meaning to different people and specific conditions warrant different setups.

Pressure can help for sure and that LC on 40's is probably getting up there with the weight to tire size where it can make a difference in DEEP snow, but isn't legal to drive on roads here with those tires so it's a trailer rig which kind of negates the point of this whole conversation.

I have the same experience, pulled out a gal in an SUV, a delivery guy in a Transit and some dude in a jacked up F250 (with oversize AT's) with my 2016 Audi Allroad 3 years ago with Blizzaks, narrower than stock and a bit taller, piece of cake. Carnage on the roads, highways clogged w/people, people stuck in cars for hours, zero issues going anywhere.

So full circle back to OP, if we assume streetable rigs, no cut fenders or huge lifts, no monster Icelandic truck tires in general wheeling scenarios, any truck can work well with the right tires....which in my mind are tall, narrow and are designed for winter use.

Taking pressure out of tires can help...or hinder depending on the conditions, if there is some softer snow over ice or fresh snow over dirt, digging down can be a huge advantage.

Sounds like you fall into the experienced category, you can probably make anything work based on your experience.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
I've never had a rig with massive tires, but been around them enough to know I didn't want or need to go down that path. I'll never forget in college when when went snow wheeling in the Sierras and had to pull this guy out of snow drifts multiple time in a old Bronco with big Boggers while I was running circles around him in my Z71 with 265/75 BFG AT's.

That big dodge with mud tires wouldn't make it out of my neighborhood on a moderately snowy / icy day and I wouldn't even attempt to get on the highway. Now deep snow is a different animal of course and to my point, "deep" has a different meaning to different people and specific conditions warrant different setups.

Pressure can help for sure and that LC on 40's is probably getting up there with the weight to tire size where it can make a difference in DEEP snow, but isn't legal to drive on roads here with those tires so it's a trailer rig which kind of negates the point of this whole conversation.

I have the same experience, pulled out a gal in an SUV, a delivery guy in a Transit and some dude in a jacked up F250 (with oversize AT's) with my 2016 Audi Allroad 3 years ago with Blizzaks, narrower than stock and a bit taller, piece of cake. Carnage on the roads, highways clogged w/people, people stuck in cars for hours, zero issues going anywhere.

So full circle back to OP, if we assume streetable rigs, no cut fenders or huge lifts, no monster Icelandic truck tires in general wheeling scenarios, any truck can work well with the right tires....which in my mind are tall, narrow and are designed for winter use.

Taking pressure out of tires can help...or hinder depending on the conditions, if there is some softer snow over ice or fresh snow over dirt, digging down can be a huge advantage.

Sounds like you fall into the experienced category, you can probably make anything work based on your experience.

Ok.....so we are finally getting down to it.....you have never run large tires personally and you are basing most of your opinion around odd experiences.
Man I really get disappointed when people do that.

I've logged nearly 100k miles in my Dodge driving in and out of every kinda of 'driveway' that you can imagine. I live in SW Colorado in an area that gets feet and feet of snow.
I'm not being theoretical on this.....I put the time in behind the wheel in the exact conditions you are mentioning, I'm not guessing.

All these rigs are legal to drive on the road in my state (and the entire USA being non-commercial). These are not trailer only vehicles. I daily drove them for years in all seasons...
I'm sorry if where you live sucks for vehicles.

To the OPs question.
Larger tires will get you further up the trail in deep snow. Period. You only need to be experienced enough to select the proper tire pressure and driving technique.

There are a multitude of ways to get very large tires on most of the vehicles listed even for restrictive states if that is what you want.
AEV makes a fender package that allows a 40" tire for the Dodge Powerwagon with only a 2" lift.
Fitting up to 38-39" tires on a Jeep JLU these days is simple with a little fender flare trimming and a small lift.
etc. etc.

Tire pressure ALWAYS helps. Digging 'down' to traction only works in a VERY small number of mild circumstances and conditions. Airing down always helps.
If you can 'dig' down to traction with the tires aired up.....you can dig down to traction with the tires aired down. There is very little difference in those cases in practical application.
I would MUCH rather air down than try and 'dig'. Airing down burns a ton less fuel than trying to 'dig' or use chains.
Airing up and down takes about the same time as chains also if we want to make that comparison.

If you want to say that you like small tires because you don't 'need' big tires for what you do, that is just fine. This isn't for everyone.
That is why I specifically asked the OP what he was looking for....he said DEEP snow. ( not all the other typically stuff, where yes, small tires can work just fine )
Large tires aren't for everyone, but they can get you WAY back into places that most other people aren't going to get into.
You better have your skills and gear dialed in for when you do finally find the limits, because not many people are going to be able to come help you.

Cheers.
 

doug720

Expedition Leader
I'm not a snow expert, but have quite a bit of experience driving in it and moving it.

For fresh deep snow, I agree with tall and wide tires, and lower pressure helps a lot. But I also use chains. For paved roads in my truck, I have good 275/65-18 At tires, and just drove about 125 miles on all snow in 4H towing a small flatbed trailer and it was a great experience!

When I clear snow with my 4X4 tractor, at least any amount over a 8-10", chains are always on. They bite and keep me moving, which allows me to push a good pile of snow. If the the snow is packed or frozen...gotta have chains - Their like cheating! Chains work great in mud also.

For my trucks and 4X4's, with fresh snow on paved and gravel roads, good tires and low pressure work. Packed snow about the same, then come the chains. Off road, really depends on conditions, but chains allow impressive traction in snow and mud! BUT...Make sure one has the right size and type of chains, knows how to install them properly, and know their limits of speed and conditions.
 
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jadmt

ignore button user
Ok.....so we are finally getting down to it.....you have never run large tires personally and you are basing most of your opinion around odd experiences.
Man I really get disappointed when people do that.

I've logged nearly 100k miles in my Dodge driving in and out of every kinda of 'driveway' that you can imagine. I live in SW Colorado in an area that gets feet and feet of snow.
I'm not being theoretical on this.....I put the time in behind the wheel in the exact conditions you are mentioning, I'm not guessing.

All these rigs are legal to drive on the road in my state (and the entire USA being non-commercial). These are not trailer only vehicles. I daily drove them for years in all seasons...
I'm sorry if where you live sucks for vehicles.

To the OPs question.
Larger tires will get you further up the trail in deep snow. Period. You only need to be experienced enough to select the proper tire pressure and driving technique.

There are a multitude of ways to get very large tires on most of the vehicles listed even for restrictive states if that is what you want.
AEV makes a fender package that allows a 40" tire for the Dodge Powerwagon with only a 2" lift.
Fitting up to 38-39" tires on a Jeep JLU these days is simple with a little fender flare trimming and a small lift.
etc. etc.

Tire pressure ALWAYS helps. Digging 'down' to traction only works in a VERY small number of mild circumstances and conditions. Airing down always helps.
If you can 'dig' down to traction with the tires aired up.....you can dig down to traction with the tires aired down. There is very little difference in those cases in practical application.
I would MUCH rather air down than try and 'dig'. Airing down burns a ton less fuel than trying to 'dig' or use chains.
Airing up and down takes about the same time as chains also if we want to make that comparison.

If you want to say that you like small tires because you don't 'need' big tires for what you do, that is just fine. This isn't for everyone.
That is why I specifically asked the OP what he was looking for....he said DEEP snow. ( not all the other typically stuff, where yes, small tires can work just fine )
Large tires aren't for everyone, but they can get you WAY back into places that most other people aren't going to get into.
You better have your skills and gear dialed in for when you do finally find the limits, because not many people are going to be able to come help you.

Cheers.
you saved me a lot of typing..
 

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