Production numbers

[Dan Grec]

Hi All,

I've been trying to find estimated production numbers for the Grenadier - does anyone have any confirmed numbers of how many they're aiming to build each year?

I think it will be a great platform, but if they're only going to build 5k a year I don't see the aftermarket going out out of their way to design products for them.

-Dan

 

[plainjaneFJC]

Hi All,

I've been trying to find estimated production numbers for the Grenadier - does anyone have any confirmed numbers of how many they're aiming to build each year?

I think it will be a great platform, but if they're only going to build 5k a year I don't see the aftermarket going out out of their way to design products for them.

-Dan

What type of aftermarket would be most in demand on one? I think it’s a vehicle most would leave alone.

 

[Beowulf]

I’m very interested. And completely sold if AluCab makes a conversion top for it

 

[Dan Grec]

What type of aftermarket would be most in demand on one? I think it’s a vehicle most would leave alone.

I'm just thinking about the needs of a long term overlander, a few things come to mind:

- The front dumper does not have radiator protection - I wouldn't drive around the world without it.

- A roof rack (is there a factory option?)

- Additional fuel and water tanks

- A dual tire carrier (I don't want one, but it will be a hard sell in Australia and Africa without it)

- More "bar work" on the outside to protect the fenders, etc. (Again, I don't want it, but for Aussies it's a must)

- I have no idea what the skid plate situation is

-Dan

 

[Beowulf]

There is a factory rack options.

 

[Beowulf]

I agree that lower radiator needs protection. In looking at the undercarriage, it’s going to be tight. I’d like to see an OEM tank replacement and an aux tank, but there will be challenges

 

[plainjaneFJC]

Does the gear shifter look totally out of place in that interior or is it just me? I think they should have that stayed with the aviation theme- a simple stick with a switch on it.

 

[billiebob]

Are you talking about Canada or ??

In North America I think this will be a fringe vehicle. Touted as a utilitarian worker I doubt it will sell well given our propensity to like leather and air. Yes it has upscale options but I cannot see it outselling the Mercedes option.

Who is selling it, is it thru the BMW dealerships, is this a brand new marquee ??
The BMW straight six makes me think good luck finding service.
There are plenty of similar 4x4s which have been sold forever.

Where are you planning to take it Dan?

 

[alanymarce]

Hi All,

I've been trying to find estimated production numbers for the Grenadier - does anyone have any confirmed numbers of how many they're aiming to build each year?

I think it will be a great platform, but if they're only going to build 5k a year I don't see the aftermarket going out out of their way to design products for them.

-Dan

www.carscoops.com notes "Ineos has said before that in order for the Grenadier to prove profitable, they’ll have to achieve between 25,000 and 35,000 units sold on an annual basis". Most businesses assume 5 year business plans so this would imply at least 125,000 units to achieve profitability in the first 5 years.

 

[Dan Grec]

Are you talking about Canada or ??

In North America I think this will be a fringe vehicle. Touted as a utilitarian worker I doubt it will sell well given our propensity to like leather and air. Yes it has upscale options but I cannot see it outselling the Mercedes option.

Who is selling it, is it thru the BMW dealerships, is this a brand new marquee ??
The BMW straight six makes me think good luck finding service.
There are plenty of similar 4x4s which have been sold forever.

Where are you planning to take it Dan?

I was thinking more global production numbers, just trying to get an idea of how many of these will be built, and therefore what the aftermarket support would be like.
Servicing is global through Bosch around the world, likely it will have more parts and service support globally than everything after the 70 series LC and the Defender.

As for thinking it's the same as 4x4s that have been sold forever, you need to look at the payload for starters.

I'm aiming to go everyhwere in the world I haven't been yet.

www.carscoops.com notes "Ineos has said before that in order for the Grenadier to prove profitable, they’ll have to achieve between 25,000 and 35,000 units sold on an annual basis". Most businesses assume 5 year business plans so this would imply at least 125,000 units to achieve profitability in the first 5 years.

Thanks, that's exactly what I was trying to find!

-Dan

 

[billiebob]

I'm aiming to go everyhwere in the world I haven't been yet.

So with the Americas, Australia and Africa off the list you are thinking Russia, China, Asia, India.... Europe ??

I think it has great potential but where does the financial backing come from? Beside the BMW engines I see no other marque behind it. Yes they need to build 25K a year to be profitable, but do they have that capability. If you look at Tesla, entering a market with zero competition the built 5K first year then 22K and 32K third year. The global competition for Grenadier is massive. I think they need a market like India or China, are they there? If you are going to India and China I'd say this is a great choice.... if Grenadier is building there.

$67K USD sound darn inexpensive.... hope they sell for that.

 

[billiebob]

INEOS is a massive chemical company with a CEO interested in delving into auto manufacturing but with zero experience.

Ineos Automotive Ltd. was formed in 2017 by Jim Ratcliffe in order to develop and manufacture an off-road utility vehicle, intended as a "spiritual successor" to the Land Rover Defender, under the codename Projekt Grenadier.[46] In September 2019, it was initially announced that vehicle, now officially named Ineos Grenadier, would be manufactured in two new factories in Estarreja, Portugal (chassis and body) and Bridgend, South Wales (final assembly), with powertrains supplied by BMW. The launch was planned for 2022.[47][48] In December 2020 Ineos announced the final assembly would take place in Hambach, France, instead of South Wales.

I don't see much stability nor any need for the venture to be successful as a stand alone manufacturer. Me, I'd wait 10 years. I'd want to see a huge used parts source in case Sir Ratcliffe pulls the plug. There is zero history of manufacturing anything. They are a chemical refinery. Even Standard Oil left Henry Ford alone.

For you Dan, you have enough history to get a factory sponsorship. INEOS, Grenadier NEEDS you. Why look at the after market if you can influence how it is built.

 

[86scotty]

Does the gear shifter look totally out of place in that interior or is it just me? I think they should have that stayed with the aviation theme- a simple stick with a switch on it.

Look at some modern BMW interiors and you'll see the same shifter. Probably too complex to easily make their own.

 

[Dan Grec]

So with the Americas, Australia and Africa off the list you are thinking Russia, China, Asia, India.... Europe ??

Oh there's all of that and a whole lot more. I'd love to do a lap around the Meditteraean, I'd love to drive North->South right down the middle of Africa (if it's possible one day), I've STILL never been to New Zealand, I missed the entire east coast of South America, and of course there is a life time of island hopping to be done... though for that I may just buy a crappy motorbike on each island so I don't have to deal with shipping.

For you Dan, you have enough history to get a factory sponsorship. INEOS, Grenadier NEEDS you. Why look at the after market if you can influence how it is built.

Everyone seems to think it must be easy to get sponsorship from an OEM, but from experience, I can tell you it simply does not work like that. Sponsorship is not just magically there because I've been at this for so long. Even with an enormous effort and pitch and years of lead time I've still never had any from an OEM.

But yeah, I think the Ineos is interesting, and I'm going to watch where it goes for sure.

-Dan

 

[plainjaneFJC]

Look at some modern BMW interiors and you'll see the same shifter. Probably too complex to easily make their own.

I assumed that what it was-just looks out of place.