portal axles
- Thread starter haven
- Start date
michaelgroves
Explorer
Ron B said:
Yes, maybe. But if so, I don't think it fairly applies to portal axles in general. All that means is that if a particular vehicle happens to have something other than the diff that hangs really low, (an exhaust, a towbar, an A-arm or whatever), then a portal axle won't lift it up higher. But no-one's going to retrofit a Portal-tek axle to an IFS vehicle and keep the A-arms etc.!
michaelgroves
Explorer
KevinNY said:
All Unimogs are tippy - except that one! Wow, that is impressive!
Antichrist
Expedition Leader
It's hard to tell for sure due to the angle of the photo, but it doesn't look like the diff is the lowest point in this case.
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=237371&postcount=12
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying portals are a bad thing, I just don't like generalizations or vague data about things like this.
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=237371&postcount=12
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying portals are a bad thing, I just don't like generalizations or vague data about things like this.
rickc
Adventurer
Hi all:
Stating the obvious; when discussing COG it's entirely vehicle specific. The Hummer/HMMWV has a relatively low COG despite high clearance afforded by portal hubs because the body is about a foot wider than most trucks and it is more squat - my roof line with stock 37" tires is only about 73". Most stock trucks are about the same or higher.
This has been a great discussion - I have learned a lot. Many thanks to all contributors.
Stating the obvious; when discussing COG it's entirely vehicle specific. The Hummer/HMMWV has a relatively low COG despite high clearance afforded by portal hubs because the body is about a foot wider than most trucks and it is more squat - my roof line with stock 37" tires is only about 73". Most stock trucks are about the same or higher.
This has been a great discussion - I have learned a lot. Many thanks to all contributors.
dieselcruiserhead
16 Years on ExPo. Whoa!!
Somehow I missed this thread. Jim from Portal Tek, nice to meet you. I don't know you but I know all the other gentleman that have been associated with your company and I even bought some axles from I think it was Russ once upon a time. I have also evaluated the Portal Tek axles in person and they look pretty good and I really like the design.
I spent some time in this FJ55 that had Volvo C303 axles in it. Fit great, sprung under with no or a moderate lift. This truck belonged to my good friend Brian Steen who is in the Peace Corps in Kygistan currently, really good guy, hell of a cruiser head. Once he built it up he took the ultimate cruiser trip through the desert in early winter if I remeber correctly, hundreds of miles. Unfortunately the gearing situation was a little off and something you very much have to compensate for. Too low, not too high. I drove his 55 all over the place, it was a hell of a truck but top speed was 55. Again, this gets real old real quick. In the end he went back to a FJ55 sprung under 2-3" lift and about 33's or 34's, more of a typical setup. Brian is also a real expeditioner, not a lot of unneccessary gadgets, epic traveller, down to earth and basic, heck of a guy. This was nice but was too "big" for him. If he had a 5 speed and the overdrive unit he had I think he might have done a little better, I dunno. The Portal Tek setup is nice because you can choose your gearing and use really fast Ford car gearing so you can still get reasonable street gearing. I like the Portal concept a lot, the axle nice and high, 4" lift is actually great IMO, and you can drive right over a 5 gallon bucket.
I also drove Unimogs quite a bit when I worked for a company in '02 that sold them, mostly 406/416 diesel models with the 6 speed. Contrary to popular belief, they are not tippy and designed to not be tippy with low engines and low weight (and a lot of it). We tested the tippyness of them repeatedly and never managed to put one over but came close, so we know their limites. Same deal though, 55 mph and engine screaming unless you purchase fast axles.
Hope it helps. When the site's photo database is back up and running I'll post up pics again.
I spent some time in this FJ55 that had Volvo C303 axles in it. Fit great, sprung under with no or a moderate lift. This truck belonged to my good friend Brian Steen who is in the Peace Corps in Kygistan currently, really good guy, hell of a cruiser head. Once he built it up he took the ultimate cruiser trip through the desert in early winter if I remeber correctly, hundreds of miles. Unfortunately the gearing situation was a little off and something you very much have to compensate for. Too low, not too high. I drove his 55 all over the place, it was a hell of a truck but top speed was 55. Again, this gets real old real quick. In the end he went back to a FJ55 sprung under 2-3" lift and about 33's or 34's, more of a typical setup. Brian is also a real expeditioner, not a lot of unneccessary gadgets, epic traveller, down to earth and basic, heck of a guy. This was nice but was too "big" for him. If he had a 5 speed and the overdrive unit he had I think he might have done a little better, I dunno. The Portal Tek setup is nice because you can choose your gearing and use really fast Ford car gearing so you can still get reasonable street gearing. I like the Portal concept a lot, the axle nice and high, 4" lift is actually great IMO, and you can drive right over a 5 gallon bucket.
I also drove Unimogs quite a bit when I worked for a company in '02 that sold them, mostly 406/416 diesel models with the 6 speed. Contrary to popular belief, they are not tippy and designed to not be tippy with low engines and low weight (and a lot of it). We tested the tippyness of them repeatedly and never managed to put one over but came close, so we know their limites. Same deal though, 55 mph and engine screaming unless you purchase fast axles.
Hope it helps. When the site's photo database is back up and running I'll post up pics again.
Portal-Tek Axles
New member
dieselcruiserhead said:
Andre,
It's nice to bump in to you. You actually have met me before. I took you and Kurt to dinner at Goodwood BBQ in Sandy. I think that had to be a couple of years ago by now. We were talking about roof racks. I was not with Portal-Tek at the time. Thanks for posting on this thread. It is neat to hear input from someone who has had seat time on a vehicle equipped with portal axles. It really is amazing how stable Unimogs really are. You and Kurt have always been great for objective feedback. Feel free to swing by the shop and check out some of the projects that we are working on. One of the projects that we are working on now is the build of two late model FJ40 Land Cruisers. Both of these vehicles will see a lot mini-expedition trips in the upcoming year. One will be built with Portal-Tek G3 axles (sprung-under) and the other will be sprung-over on FJ60 axles similar to Kurt's at Cruiser Outfitters. We will be using them for side by side axle comparison testing. We are really looking for an 'apples to apples' type of vehicle comparison. It would be great to have you come along for some of the test runs. That invitation is also extended to Kurt. I would be great to have some unbiased opinion that would be willing to report on the outcome of the tests that we are planning. We really want to run a large gamut of testing. Freeway, dirt roads, mud, rock crawling, etc. This will probably take place in late winter or early spring. Let me know if you are interested. I am open to suggestions as I would like this to have a scientific basis. That invitation goes for anyone that is nearby or willing to travel to Utah.
Jim
Here is a link to some video that was short last year at the KOH event in Johnson Valley, CA. This was our Portal-Tek sponsored race truck. Look at time 1:35 to 2:20. That would be Number 127, on G3 Axles. Front and rear steer, 600+hp. 104 mph tops speed in the desert. Running on 42" Interco Irok tires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2Bva3XlEno
Antichrist
Expedition Leader
I never realized people thought they were tippy, but I knew they weren't so I guess I didn't really think about it. (sorta like people assuming Series Land Rovers are tippy).dieselcruiserhead said:
I fell in love with Unimogs when I used to spend a lot of time at the local Mercedes dealer in the late 60's.
To this day I still kick myself for not buying a "cheap" pristine 406 with the cascade 20 speed gearing and full PTO and hydraulics and dump bed, back in '79. It looked showroom new and the guy used it to haul new tires from his warehouse a couple times a month so some insanely low mileage that I forget.
michaelgroves
Explorer
Tippy is a relative term, of course. Actually a Unimog does badly in roll-over angle tests compared to other trucks of similar size and track width. Firstly, it does have a high COG - big diameter wheels and portals make for a high chassis and load platform, and also, the engine is mounted high partly because of the portal axles. Secondly, it has long-travel coil springs and lots of axle articulation, so the whole weight of vehicle and payload can lean over a long way. (Anyone who has driven a fully laden Unimog will attest to how even slow negotiation of an uneven side slope will get the whole body rocking quite alarmly!).
Here's a set of Unimog 404 portal axles,
reconditioned by the Swiss army, $2950
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Unimog-404-Axles-Reconditioned-by-the-Swiss-Army_W0QQitemZ260283949883QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item260283949883&_trkparms=39%3A1|65%3A1|240%3A1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245
Or buy a set of used 404 portal axles for $1900
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...go=DR&its=S%2BI%2BSS&itu=ISS%2BUCI%2BSI&otn=4
reconditioned by the Swiss army, $2950
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Unimog-404-Axles-Reconditioned-by-the-Swiss-Army_W0QQitemZ260283949883QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item260283949883&_trkparms=39%3A1|65%3A1|240%3A1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245
Or buy a set of used 404 portal axles for $1900
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...go=DR&its=S%2BI%2BSS&itu=ISS%2BUCI%2BSI&otn=4
4Rescue
Expedition Leader
There are some pretty amazing vids floating about of him schooling a whole bunch of "built" jeeps in the rocks. He's "Tirediron" over on Yota-tech and I belive he's a member here as well. I LOVE THAT TRUCK!!!haven said:The fellow who modified the Volvo C303 axles to work on his 80 series Cruiser posted recently that he can provide a similar set for $4,000. That's before the modifications needed to make them work with the Cruiser. Upgrading the brakes to more powerful discs costs around $1500 per axle. The tires are 38.5" Interco TSL Boggers, 4 for $900. Add OME 2" Heavy springs and shocks, $800.
So for a mere $8700 plus several days labor, you can have a portal axle Cruiser, too.
The result, however, is stunning: 17" of ground clearance under the front axle, and 41 degree approach angle.
Cheers
Dave
EDIT: DUH!!! He's posted in this thread, guess I should read all the way through.
toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
WWWHHOOOAA there little buddy, where do you get the idea that unimogs are tippy? Im in the Ary guard and I guarantee my mog could sidehill as well as a hmmwv.michaelgroves said:
Ron B
Explorer
flighht2k5 said:
I don't know too much about Mogs (except that I love them) but the seemingly unimpressive factory specs of a hummvee (60% incline, 40% sideslope) is at continuous operation at full gvw without oil starvation in any gear box, and without fuel starvation or overheating.
Curiosity just got the best of an HML member in Germany and he put his hummer on a sideways lift. It's too bad the truck wasn't stock (it was a standard 4dr hard top, but with a 3" body lift and 42" Irok tires). It started lifting a rear tire at 41 and would've gone over at 45. I know a flat surface is nothing like a trail but it's still interesting. A stock humvee is theoretically supposed to roll somewhere in the 'hood of 53 degrees in a controlled environment such as this guy used.
charlieaarons
Explorer
U500 side angle
My "Unimog Resources CD" gives a side angle rating of 35 degrees for the U500. That's with the pickup bed installed; I don't know whether it is with the bed loaded to a GVW of 26000 lb or not. They give a hill angle rating of only 38.66 degrees; obviously if has traction it has power to go up 90 degrees so that might be a continous no oil starvation rating.
Charlie
My "Unimog Resources CD" gives a side angle rating of 35 degrees for the U500. That's with the pickup bed installed; I don't know whether it is with the bed loaded to a GVW of 26000 lb or not. They give a hill angle rating of only 38.66 degrees; obviously if has traction it has power to go up 90 degrees so that might be a continous no oil starvation rating.
Charlie