Portable Power Pack

[Louisianarunner]

I have seen a lot on here about Goal Zero Yeti and Dometic aux power for fridges and such but has anybody had experience with the National Luna Portable Power Pack. It seems to have some great features and a full size battery box that acts as a dual battery seems like it would have more staying power . It will power aux lights and a Whynter 65 fridge /freezer and the other electronic items we take along ( also not into building my own, don't have the time or skill).
Let the debate begin!!!

 

[pluton]

I bought my NL-PPP, full kit with wiring to the vehicle included, in the spring of 2013. I selected it because I wanted to use a 12V. refrigerator on camping trips, and also I knew I'd be changing vehicles in the next year or so. I also got the dual battery controller wired remote. It has been trouble free. I keep it inside the house, and only put it in the vehicle when I'm getting ready to go on a camping trip. For the first 7 years (!), I used a Die Hard PLatinum (Odyssey) group 34 battery. It's got a larger group 27F battery in it now. I don't know if a group 31 would fit.
I use it to run an Engel MT45 fridge.

 

[john61ct]

Thanks so much not using that horrid fraudulent "generator" term for a "battery in a box with some electronics"

My issues with what I've seen so far

The profitability of this whole market segment is driven by people trying to avoid figuring out these electrickery details.

But real utility and value will only come after you do.

Have yet to come across one I think is good **value** compared to putting a custom system together from components selected for **your** use case's specific requirements.

The main function of these power packs is energy storage. Usually just getting the basic performance specs requires detective work.

Whether bought OTS or built DIY, key questions to answer are:

Actual Wh capacity of the batt inside?

The best battery value by far is Duracell (actually Deka/East Penn) FLA deep cycle golf cart batteries, 2x6V, around $200 per 200+AH @12V pair from BatteriesPlus or Sam's Club. NAPA relabels it here: https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NBP8144 Deka self-labeled also sold at Lowes.

So that's your baseline, ~$1 USD per Ah @12V, or $80/kWh, available locally.

Do the math and compare apples to apples!

______
How fast a Watts rate allowed flowing in charging, how much discharging out to loads?

Don't quote Ah capacity at a 3.7V no one actually uses! What is the capacity in watt-hours (likely needs IRL testing) Max amps rate at what termination voltage?

Bare minimum should be an easily identified internal battery, so when it's worn out (often in a year or two) it can be replaced at a reasonable price, even if the brand / maker have gone out of business.

Designing something costing hundreds to be quickly thrown away should be a crime; batteries are consumables, but their infrastructure should last for decades.

What chemistry?

If that allows for a full recharge in an hour, why does this product require a full overnight on shore power? (hint $$$)

The key to longevity - a good LFP pack is super safe, and can go 8-10,000 cycles in daily use

is buying Grade A cells from a top notch manufacturer via a trusted supplier.

Even with Battle Born, the buyer has no idea where the cells came from, nor if it's the same quality from one year to the next.

And if the cells are li-ion then inherently 1/10th the lifespan and 100x the fire risk.

I personally am adamant that LFP is the only non-lead chemistry suitable for House bank use within a confined space, especially mobile use cases.

Once you have good answers to these, you will have a clear idea of what sorts of loads you can power and for how long.

To the extent the unit is very portable, inherently small and light means low capacity,

you should really be avoiding devices designed for mains anyway, look for 12V versions, likely much lower overall consumption of watts.

Especially if the load device runs off DC internally or has its own battery, it's just silly to use an AC powered DC charger off an inverter powered by a DC source.

A suitable inverter may well only cost the price of one nice meal out, should really have little bearing which portable battery-in-a-box you buy.

But some people need a big one worth a grand, some need fast DC-DC charging off alternator on short drives, some need lots of solar others not at all

These generally are designed for small amp loads, and plugging into shore power overnight.

Basically, IMO the target market is ignorant noobs with money to burn, who think they can plug and play without learning the basics.

I hope one day exceptions emerge, but not holding my breath.

[/rant]

 

[RDinNHand AZ]

I’d say building mine wasn’t that hard nor time consuming really. Take a few hours on Amazon and order the parts, go to H-D or another store for a box, have some basic tools and put it all together in a long day. You can then have 1200 Wh with all the features for $800+- and weighing in at about 34 lbs with LiFePO4. It’s a lot of money but a lot of battery too. My 640 Wh unit could be done for less than $650 comparable to those crappy Li-Ion or AGM boxes. Solar adds a hundred bucks. If you know batteries and Alibaba you can save $300+ dollars ordering from China. I didn’t.
See: https://expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/diy-power-pack-lifepo4-wattbox.221586/#post-2884500

 

[OllieChristopher]

I have seen a lot on here about Goal Zero Yeti and Dometic aux power for fridges and such but has anybody had experience with the National Luna Portable Power Pack. It seems to have some great features and a full size battery box that acts as a dual battery seems like it would have more staying power . It will power aux lights and a Whynter 65 fridge /freezer and the other electronic items we take along ( also not into building my own, don't have the time or skill).
Let the debate begin!!!

Contrary to what some may lead you to believe, there is not much skill involved building a DIY solar generator/power pack. It's mostly labor, good tools and quality components that make it not cost effective.

I started off by doing a dual battery install on my truck with a usable 30 amp hours of deep cycling. I have a small garage fridge/freezer I will be doing some testing with.

Jackary makes some really nice units for one dollar per watt hour. I almost was going to get a gas inverter generator but decided on the Jackary instead. I'm starting out with the 300 watt and a Rockpals 100 watt solar suitcase.

The price and portability on these units is hard to beat. Not to mention easily serviceable after the warranty runs out. The Jackary units are especially attractive because they are very light and simple to use.

Thanks so much not using that horrid fraudulent "generator" term for a "battery in a box with some electronics"

Basically, IMO the target market is ignorant noobs with money to burn, who think they can plug and play without learning the basics.

The best battery value by far is Duracell (actually Deka/East Penn) FLA deep cycle golf cart batteries, 2x6V, around $200 per 200+AH @12V pair from BatteriesPlus or Sam's Club. NAPA relabels it here: https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NBP8144 Deka self-labeled also sold at Lowes.

I have done the math and building my own solar generator does not make sense at all when I can get a simple plug and play solar generator for a lot less. What a lot of people forget to factor in is the labor involved. While DIY solar generators are simple they are labor intrusive for someone who works full time.

I have yet to see any way to do a DIY solar generator/power pack with all the features and reliability of the Jackary 300 for under 300.00. And add the fact that it has a really reliable and safe BMS, MPPT charge controller, at only 7 lbs. It is going to be near impossible to beat that price point in a DIY unit with components that are reliable.

You also have to look at the weight and portability of the unit. A really nice 1000 watt Jackary solar generator with over 46 amp hours is weighing in at less than 23 lbs in a compact package.

If you are going to use the golf cart batteries you describe and looking to get 200 amp hours, then that is a different application than what the OP is describing. You are now not portable anymore and are lugging around a lot of weight.

 

[OllieChristopher]

I’d say building mine wasn’t that hard nor time consuming really. Take a few hours on Amazon and order the parts, go to H-D or another store for a box, have some basic tools and put it all together in a long day. You can then have 1200 Wh with all the features for $800+- and weighing in at about 34 lbs with LiFePO4. It’s a lot of money but a lot of battery too. My 640 Wh unit could be done for less than $650 comparable to those crappy Li-Ion or AGM boxes. Solar adds a hundred bucks. If you know batteries and Alibaba you can save $300+ dollars ordering from China. I didn’t.
See: https://expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/diy-power-pack-lifepo4-wattbox.221586/#post-2884500

To each his own. I spent some time researching and found that it was just not worthwhile nor worth my effort to have a heavy box to lug around. Nice unit you built though.

 

[jadmt]

for me weight and size is a big deal and for 2 or 3 days parked at most not sure you can beat some of the readily available choices. I for one do not want to lug around two golf cart batteries. I don't have money to burn and i might be ignorant and even stupid but I know what I like. ARB has a neat little battery pack that weights like 4lbs and is supposed to run a refrigerator for 18 hours. for someone only spending a night then moving again that would be pretty handy. my finger keeps twitching on the jackery 1000 but so far have held off but the force is strong lol.

 

[Martinjmpr]

When I started looking around at various options to keep power to my 12v fridge (after coming from a Suburban that had a dual battery) the "choke point" always seemed to be: How do you charge up the battery pack when you don't have a 120vAC source?

I think the drawback to the commercial units is that because they are intended for a "plug and play" customer (i.e. a customer who is not adept or comfortable at doing any kind of electrical work) they are stuck to using the really marginal 12v "cigarette lighter" type power port that has become the industry default. Of course, we all know the problem with the "12v power port" is that it was never designed to be anything other than a cigarette lighter and as a result, is really limited in terms of the number of amps it can safely conduct. Most are fused at 10A and a very few at 15A, although if you look at the tiny wiring that is attached to those power ports, IMO even 10A is risky for any length of time.

But, until and unless a better "industry standard power port" becomes common (maybe something like the "Powerlet" ports used on many modern adventure-type motorcycles) the power-box manufacturers are stuck with it. As a result, any "power box" is going to be very slow to charge when hooked up to a 12v DC source unless the user adds a DC-DC charger (which is ultimately what I did.)

 

[OllieChristopher]

ARB has a neat little battery pack that weights like 4lbs and is supposed to run a refrigerator for 18 hours.

That is a really nice one!! I almost got it myself. The recent (last few weeks) bidirectional upgrades to the Jackery units sold me on them. That and the fact you just don't hear of problems with the Jackery products. OTOH the ARB products are very well designed. Also another one to look at is the Dometic plb 40.

As a result, any "power box" is going to be very slow to charge when hooked up to a 12v DC source unless the user adds a DC-DC charger (which is ultimately what I did.)

Another option is to simply plug a small inverter into your vehicle. It will make the charge times a lot quicker. And if you find out the max charge input amps your solar charger/power pack can handle get an adjustable AC charger.

 

[john61ct]

The Powerlet (BMW/ Hella/ Merit / "Euro-style DIN" (ISO 4165) style is much more robust and secure connection than stock ciggie port

which is a true abortion of a design.

But not higher amps rating

Put in fat wire and Anderson plugs for high amps, straight through to the alt/starter circuit up front if you haven't got a House bank already set up.

With DIY you can ensure a 90min refill, 45min if you don't mind dropping some cycles.

But the OTS units, usually 4-6 hours is the fastest the circuitry between you and the cells will allow.

As to portability of course LFP is twice the density of lead

but anything under 30-40lbs is just not going to power very much, for very long

in a "weeks off grid" scenario, just inherent in the physics.

But DIY at least you can make it modular if you don't want it to be too heavy.

If you just need lights a fan and recharge phones for a weekend outing then back to shore power

then a small light unit will be fine.

 

[Louisianarunner]

When I started looking around at various options to keep power to my 12v fridge (after coming from a Suburban that had a dual battery) the "choke point" always seemed to be: How do you charge up the battery pack when you don't have a 120vAC source?

I think the drawback to the commercial units is that because they are intended for a "plug and play" customer (i.e. a customer who is not adept or comfortable at doing any kind of electrical work) they are stuck to using the really marginal 12v "cigarette lighter" type power port that has become the industry default. Of course, we all know the problem with the "12v power port" is that it was never designed to be anything other than a cigarette lighter and as a result, is really limited in terms of the number of amps it can safely conduct. Most are fused at 10A and a very few at 15A, although if you look at the tiny wiring that is attached to those power ports, IMO even 10A is risky for any length of time.

But, until and unless a better "industry standard power port" becomes common (maybe something like the "Powerlet" ports used on many modern adventure-type motorcycles) the power-box manufacturers are stuck with it. As a result, any "power box" is going to be very slow to charge when hooked up to a 12v DC source unless the user adds a DC-DC charger (which is ultimately what I did.)

I do not know alot about the electronics and such but the NL is connected directly to the main battery has all the splits/isolators and such and cane get a dual monitor to watch from the cab. But you have given me more to read , thanks

 

[Louisianarunner]

Thanks for the replies. I guess my main issue is I AM NOT GOING TO BUILD MY OWN BOX!!!. I am interested in knowledge of the proc and cons of the National Luna vs Jackery vs Dometic vs ARB vs ect... I'm not rich but not looking to build my own, want to buy PLUG AND PLAY. pros and cons of the ready to go units please.

 

[OllieChristopher]

Thanks for the replies. I guess my main issue is I AM NOT GOING TO BUILD MY OWN BOX!!!. I am interested in knowledge of the proc and cons of the National Luna vs Jackery vs Dometic vs ARB vs ect... I'm not rich but not looking to build my own, want to buy PLUG AND PLAY. pros and cons of the ready to go units please.

All those choices are good ones. you just need to match your power needs to the watts/amps you will be using. Your Whynter 65 fridge /freezer is rated for 75 watts AC and 4.5 amps DC. It is only going to run as needed to keep food cool. Typical times for a 60 watt fridge is around 20 hours on a 300 watt solar generator.

I'm with you on the plug and play. I would do a simple search and call a few of the solar generator manufacturers to see what they recommend. Right now the Jackery is the hot ticket for reliability and bang for the buck. If you go all in for the 1000 Jackery you will be able to really power up the items you noted with no worries to run out on a long weekend.

Jackery Explorer 1000 Portable Power Station

Jackery Explorer 1000, 1002Wh & rating 1000W portable power station is Jackery's biggest Explorer, a solar generator with MPPT built-in and 3 AC outlets.

www.jackery.com

Another trick not mentioned is you can absolutely run 2 of the solar generators in parallel for double the amp/watt output. You simply have to make your own pigtail to make it work. As far as I know I do not know of any solar generator manufacturer that has pigtails for doing this.

To make the pigtail you run a single wire into a Y connector for both positive and negative wires. This will give you one plug for you to plug into and the other end will have 2 plugs. One for each power unit. I recommend wire and plug rated for 30 amps for two 1000 watt units. Even at a full 2000 amp surge of one unit you will only draw about 16 amps out of a 110 volt socket. 10 AWG wire is more than good enough for a short pigtail to connect 1000 watt units in parallel.

I'll follow this thread. Let us know what you decide and don't get discouraged by the negative comments that some members use as their way to troll and start arguments within this community.

FWIW, Jackery has some nice charts for each of their units that show what they will power and for how long.

 

[pluton]

I got 7 years from the Die Hard Platinum AGM group 34 running the fridge Generally, it was tasked with running an Engel MT45 for 3 days in cool weather w/o operating the engine to recharge. Also, My vehicle (Toyota 4Runner) is all passenger compartment, and I'm not putting liquid sulfuric acid (FLA battery) inside the passenger compartment of my vehicle.

 

[OllieChristopher]

I got 7 years from the Die Hard Platinum AGM group 34 running the fridge Generally, it was tasked with running an Engel MT45 for 3 days in cool weather w/o operating the engine to recharge. Also, My vehicle (Toyota 4Runner) is all passenger compartment, and I'm not putting liquid sulfuric acid (FLA battery) inside the passenger compartment of my vehicle.

That is good to know. This morning I'll be running some experiments with my dual battery setup. It's a group 78/34 as well. I have a 300 watt pure sine inverter that my small garage fridge will plug into and I'll see how long it will run before my battery is down to 50% or so.

When my Jackery 300 solar generator gets here I'll do the same and see how long to discharge. Then test charging times using AC vs DC vs solar. When I saw that Jackery just released bi-directional charging in a very lightweight feature rich package I went for it.