(partially) new Tundra coming?

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Remember the "all new" Tacoma for '16? it was only "partially" new.
What carried over? The frame (sort of, for various reasons even a late 2nd gen Taco frame was quite a bit different than an early one), suspension and front axle. It was a new body, new interior, new engine, new transmission, new rear axle. In Toyota terms that is a pretty significant generation.

The 1995 mini truck still had a whole lot in common with a 1986 and even quite a lot with a 1979 truck. No one questions there was 3 generations of those trucks, the definition of them being almost completely cosmetic. Even the 1st gen Tacoma could use some parts from a 1979 mini truck and overseas a 1997 Hilux was an even smaller change.

Point is Toyota has always changed their vehicles slowly and I'd say that 3rd gen Tacoma, in fact being the first one with an American Chief Engineer, is a relatively large step.
 

bkg

Explorer
What carried over? The frame (sort of, for various reasons even a late 2nd gen Taco frame was quite a bit different than an early one), suspension and front axle. It was a new body, new interior, new engine, new transmission, new rear axle. In Toyota terms that is a pretty significant generation.

The 1995 mini truck still had a whole lot in common with a 1986 and even quite a lot with a 1979 truck. No one questions there was 3 generations of those trucks, the definition of them being almost completely cosmetic.

frame, cab, suspention were barely changed. IIRC, the only change in the rear axle was new elocker design.

I think you're confusing "generations" of vehicles with "all-new." Not the same thing. People argue the 2001-04 tacomas are second gen... and others argue the 2014-2021 tundra's are 3rd gen. That's all community labeling and doesn't really impact the all-new vs. partially-new discussion.

Which is also why I put "partially" in parenthesis in the title. :p
 

skrypj

Well-known member
Payload is 1575 on mine which is fine for a half ton truck for me. All I carry is one or two passengers, RTT and rack, typical camping gear. Soon to be replaced with a Super Pacific pop up topper. I'm probably at about 1200 or so on average.

Thats not bad.

Could it be a matter of expectations? What exactly is a reasonable payload for a mid size or 1/2 ton truck and at what point do you acknowledge you just need a bigger truck?

I ask somewhat rhetorically because of course I want more payload on my Tacoma but the GVWR hasn't changed hardly at all from 1979 to 2021 for a Toyota small truck.

Their curb weight has grown for various reasons, some to meet market demands, some regulation. Not much you can do about the gubermint mandating air bags or crash zones and all that. But there's a lot of weight tied up in superfluousness. Going to leather seats and infotainment adds weight over a bench seat and AM/FM radio, so complaining about lack of payload in one breath and in the next saying the next generation needs more tech sends mixed signals to manufacturers who have size and weight categories to meet for IIHS, DOT and FHWA. Do you (we) want a truck or not?

Trucks serve a totally different purpose these days. Its the family hauler/tow rig/business vehicle/offroader. It does fairly well at most of those but sacrifices must be made.

My dad had a 1984 F150 regular cab. The thing didnt get used for anything once I was born. It got used to plow the drive way and haul some mulch here and there, and was infested with mice.

You can get both though. At least if you expectation isnt that you have 2000 lbs of payload. A loaded F150 Platinum is in the 1500 lb ball park and I have personnally laid eyes on current 3.5 ecoboost STX package super crew 4x4 with 2100 lbs of payload. Thats pretty stout.

Its all about the GVWR though. My 2014 has a GVWR of 7700 lbs. When they came out with the 2015 F150, it lost 700 lbs in weight, but they also dropped the GVWR to 7050 lbs so payload was just about the same. They are on the same axles and springs as the 2014, but they were more concerned about the CAFE ratings I believe. And probably keep the F150 and F250 from overlapping. Can you imagine if they kept the 7700 lb GVWR and I could roll into a Ford dealer and pick up any Lariat supercrew with 2300 lbs of payload?

A lot of 1/2 ton trucks have crappy payload. My Tundra is ~1450. My buddies Ram 1500 is 8 years newer and only has 1000lbs payload. Most the F150s I looked at were within 100lbs of our Tundra. My solution is the sweet payload of the F250 at 3300lbs.

There is a lot of crap on new trucks. Personally I like to be comfortable doing 80 with the ac running. My 82 and 90 Toyotas didn't have a chance in those regards. My Tacomas do it ok. Tundra did it just fine. The heated seats feel awesome on my lower back. I'm guessing the new Tundra will have enough updates for the majority of the Toyota people. The enthusiasts will probably be disappointed. I doubt people cross shopping the big 3 will be interested.

The rams were legitimately bad until the 2019 model came out. I think their maximum payload was like 1500 lbs with the hemi and I test drove a Bighorn Ecodiesel that only had 1200 lbs.

A ford with 1450-1550 lbs of payload is a pretty loaded truck. My 2014 is a supercrew, long bed, fully pimped out Lariat with almost all of the factory add ons(bed liner, wheel well liners, etc, 20" wheels, sun roof, heated/cooled seats etc) and came in at 1560 lbs of payload. XLT's can typically be in the 1800-1900 lb range.

But yeah. If you want more than 2k payload with some options you need a 3/4 ton or special order an HD Payload Package F150. I have seen the HDPP F150's in crew cab 4x4 XLT trim with 2500 lbs payload.
 
Last edited:

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
frame, cab, suspention were barely changed. IIRC, the only change in the rear axle was new elocker design.

I think you're confusing "generations" of vehicles with "all-new." Not the same thing. People argue the 2001-04 tacomas are second gen... and others argue the 2014-2021 tundra's are 3rd gen. That's all community labeling and doesn't really impact the all-new vs. partially-new discussion.

Which is also why I put "partially" in parenthesis in the title. :p
Fair points. I'd then only argue that Toyota has never had an "all" new truck, for example the 20R being adapted from Corollas or whatever. Just seems like marketing semantics really. When you boil it down every engineer is just taking what is now and tweaking it.
 

bkg

Explorer
Fair points. I'd then only argue that Toyota has never had an "all" new truck, for example the 20R being adapted from Corollas or whatever. Just seems like marketing semantics really. When you boil it down every engineer is just taking what is now and tweaking it.

Dunno.... I'd argue that t100 was "all new" given the segment. 00 Tundra, 07 tundra. 95.5 Tacoma and 05 Tacoma would qualify... as would 3rd, 4th, 5th gen 4runners...

But yes, it's easy to split hairs.
 

Todd n Natalie

OverCamper
Dunno.... I'd argue that t100 was "all new" given the segment. 00 Tundra, 07 tundra. 95.5 Tacoma and 05 Tacoma would qualify... as would 3rd, 4th, 5th gen 4runners...

But yes, it's easy to split hairs.
The '07 Tundra was all new. I suspect this one won't carry much if anyting over from the current gen. Looks like the mules are now covering a new cab vs the old mules with the current gen cab.

I guess time will tell. See what it is when it's unveiled in 7 years.
 

tacollie

Glamper
A ford with 1450-1550 lbs of payload is a pretty loaded truck. My 2014 is a supercrew, long bed, fully pimped out Lariat with almost all of the factory add ons(bed liner, wheel well liners, etc, 20" wheels, sun roof, heated/cooled seats etc) and came in at 1560 lbs of payload. XLT's can typically be in the 1800-1900 lb range.
I honestly only looked at 11-14 F150s. Stx package with supercab. Bench seat trucks. Of the 5 I looked at none were over 1550. The newer ones are higher.
 

Dalko43

Explorer
frame, cab, suspention were barely changed. IIRC, the only change in the rear axle was new elocker design.

I think you're confusing "generations" of vehicles with "all-new." Not the same thing. People argue the 2001-04 tacomas are second gen... and others argue the 2014-2021 tundra's are 3rd gen. That's all community labeling and doesn't really impact the all-new vs. partially-new discussion.

Which is also why I put "partially" in parenthesis in the title. :p

You could argue that some of the major components (frame, cab) saw minor changes, but in there were enough changes (big & small) in the aggregate that I certainly consider the 3rd gen Tacoma to be truly different from the 2nd gen (though not necessarily an improvement in all regards). Toyota is known for making incremental and validated changes, even within a generation of vehicle...a lot of people dislike that, but it does contribute to the brand's reliability and overall reputation.

FWIW, a lot of 'generational' changes with the domestics are similar; major frame and chassis design carries over but there are many smaller incremental changes. As an example: How often do Ford, GM or Ram change the rear axle specs on their 1/2 tons?
 

Todd n Natalie

OverCamper
I think this could be good evidence that the next Tundra will feature the rumored 3.5L twin turbo V6 if the LC300 has it...

 

Regcabguy

Oil eater.
I think this could be good evidence that the next Tundra will feature the rumored 3.5L twin turbo V6 if the LC300 has it...

Maybe they'll be able to get some fuel economy with the new engine.
 

Todd n Natalie

OverCamper
Maybe they'll be able to get some fuel economy with the new engine.
Hopefully. Sounds like the LC300 may have a10 speed transmission. That should help as well.

Maybe by watching which features customers like in other OEM's they can integrate some into the next Tundra as well?

(On board generator, back up trailer assist, box storage, tailgate step, remote start, auto 4wd, locking diff etc, etc.....)
 

rruff

Explorer
I think this could be good evidence that the next Tundra will feature the rumored 3.5L twin turbo V6 if the LC300 has it...

Sounds likely. Doubtful that Toyota would invest in developing a new V8 for the Tundra only. The 10spd auto is more interesting as there was more of a question mark regarding that.

Maybe they'll be able to get some fuel economy with the new engine.

The Ford 3.5L Eco and the 5.0L V8 get the same MPG in the real world. The 2.7L is the best one IMO. But ya, Toyota will surely improve on the 5.7L by a hefty amount... easy enough to do.
 

rruff

Explorer
Definitely looks like a crew cab with at least a 6.5' bed, which would be new. My "super precise scaling" (assuming a 32" tire dia) gives a wheelbase of 154" vs the current 146" or the long 165"... bed length ~80".

Also rear coil springs, though I'm not sure if that photo is of a prototype Tundra or something else:
 

Forum statistics

Threads
185,797
Messages
2,878,283
Members
225,352
Latest member
ritabooke
Top