Opinions NEeded: Low Temp Thermostat

Stryder106

Explorer
Seeking opinions on whether or not it's a worthwhile Upgrade (change) to go from stock 195 degree thermostat to something lower - either 180 or 170(not sure how low to consider). My rig is 02 Avalanche with 5.3L gas, 4WD and we are in SoCal so we deal with warmer weather and steep grades to go anywhere (towing popup or fully loaded for truck camp).

When my truck kicks down on the grades, I notice my temp can rise to 210 or even more if I don't start managing it (which I do).

I have already put in a transcooler and routed the lines to NOT go through the radiator (stock config), but still am thinking it might be best to run it down some.

Advice sorely needed. Thanks
 

WOODY2

Adventurer
There was a thread on another forum by a GM service advisor that said the trans needs fluid thats not to cool to operate properly Think'n it was BOBYJ91 on AAV?
 

Rot Box

Explorer
I'd look into upgrading the radiator. If it has a single row oftentimes you can drop in a dual row (oem style replacement) with little modification. Depending on the age/mileage it may be due for a new one anyway.
 

Korben

Adventurer
No, not a good idea, it's even a bad idea. A lower temp thermostat won't prevent overheating but will drastically lower MPG and could really effect other temp sensitive, computer controlled, and emissions items.
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To prevent overheating you need to increase the efficiency of your cooling system, several things can be done. By far the easiest is tweaking the coolant, if you are running 50/50 anti-freeze, don't. Water is a much better coolant then the anti-freeze additive. You only need enough additive in your coolant for two things, to prevent corrosion, and to prevent freezing in the temps you actually experience. It's very unlikely you'll experience -30F in California, so why give up cooling efficiency for that level of protection. Next would be some form of SCA(super coolant additive), we IDI and other diesel owners should be very familiar with SCAs in one form or another, there are many forms/products, I'm not the be all end all off experts on the subject yet. But for you some of the products like the Water Wetter from Redline and others easily and cheaply offer both an increase in coolant efficiency and some anti corrosion properties. They help the cooling system by helping with the transfer of heat between the metal and water, they do this IIRC in part by creating a heat transfer coating and in part by breaking down the surface tension of water so it makes better contact with the metal. An interesting note is that some used soap for this back in the day.
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(addition) It's been a while but the last gas powered vehicle I had that had overheating issues I ran a combination of distilled water, 20% anti-freeze, and a bottle of water wetter. Made a real difference, and I only ran so much anti-freeze cause I'm in the Seattle area, likely less would be needed if you stay in SoCal.
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Personally I'd hook the transmission cooler back to the radiator, constant ATF temps are as important as temps that aren't too hot. So maybe have it run from tranny, to aftermarket cooler, to radiator cooler, to tranny.
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Not an expert on your rig, does it have an engine oil cooler? Some have a radiator cooler, and many GMs have an oil water heat exchanger mounted with the oil filter, if you don't I'd consider it, cool gizmo.
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Next would be a bigger radiator, then more air flow, etc.
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Edit, one more, increasing the timing on your engine may help a lot. An engine with more timing to a point not only runs cooler but get's more MPG and makes more power. But cause it's to a point where going too far can cause damage the stock settings are generally very conservative. On most engines, in particular domestic V8s, a bump of 2-6 degrees can really make a difference.
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OK one more edit, that the increase in coolant temps coincides with an increase in RPM may be a sign of a water pump issue. At high RPM the coolant in the water pump may be cavitating, several things can cause this and several options are available. Does it ever over heat going slow, or does it lose coolant?
 
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rayra

Expedition Leader
Don't think it's a good idea to alter the thermostat on modern heavily computerized engines. Emissions and peformance programs etc are predicated on the warmer running temps.
Things have changed since the days of old carburated non-computerized engines. You can't just alter a single parameter without complications. And that goes for removing the trans cooling line from the radiator tank, too.

As anecdotal info, the temps the OP seems to be trying to 'correct' are normal for these drivetrains. The secondary electrical cooling fan doesn't even come on until the radiator hits 230F. These motors run hotter than older SBCs. And they run better doing it. 165k mi on our '05 Tahoe, same region (and we live near the Grapevine and travel over it and into the Sierras often). We normally get 205-210F temps. And warmer if we flog it around and then sit in a drive-thru line somewhere.

I too had a hard time accepting the higher operating temps. I drove a lot of old iron most of the time. But we had a '99 Tahoe, then our '05 and I bought my '02 Sub 18mos ago, they all run warmer. Combined mileage of the three is 350k mi. I would say the temps are 'normal'.
 
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Korben

Adventurer
Don' tthink it's a good idea to alter the thermostat on modern heavily computerized engines. Emissions etc are predicated on the warmer running temps.
Things have changed since the days of old carburated non-computerized engines. You can't just alter a single parameter without complications.

As anecdotal info, the temps the OP seems to be trying to 'correct' are normal for these drivetrains. The secondary electrical cooling fan doesn't even come on until the radiator hits 230F. These motors run hotter than older SBCs. And they run better doing it.
Truth^^^
 

kraven

Hegelian Scum
What Korben said.
Managing the heat rise is what you're worried about, but that means maybe you need more airflow (fans) past the rad at highway speeds. Managed with an electric t-stat to switch on at 210F+.

There's also some fluctuation in temps that is natural with loading, and you can kind of ignore some of it. 210 or 220 isn't really out of the realm of what that engine is designed to do. The LS is engineered around emissions compliance and hotter lean burn factors to accomplish that. I wouldn't sweat it. You'll get some heat soak in the rings and maybe lose some tension and compression over time, but the LS is pretty tough.

Right now you're doing what you can do. Manage the throttle position and powertrain demands under load so heat doesn't aggregate to a damaging level. You can always turn the heater on full blast to augment or assist.
 

Stryder106

Explorer
Thanks for all of the replies - much needed. I'm a drag racer - so a cooler engine makes more power. Higher heat cooks things - like transmission oil. So, I was just trying to figure out if running a lower temp on my rig would translate into more reliability out in the middle of nowhere and less damage/wear on parts when pulling a load - typically up Grapevine or Cajon. Many thanks!!!!
 

texasboy893

New member
Where your drag car is concerned, yes. You want it as cool as you can get it because you only care about a 1/4 mile at a time. With a vehicle you daily drive you want it a little warmer. There's actually less wear on an engine at about 195°-200°. As far as the transmission fluid they're designing it to run hotter now. The hotter it is the thinner it is. The thinner it is the less drag it creates on the transmission which means less drag on the engine. If you put a 175° thermostat in it, it will never go into closed loop (fuel management) so your fuel mileage will drop like a brick.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

drewactual

Adventurer
Er'body got into the nuts and bolts of it.. and that's good...

The simple fact of the matter, though, is that a cooler 'stat ain't doing anything... it's just a regulator... your cooling is determined by just three things: volume of coolant, volume and velocity of flow, and surface of heat exchange and the exchange velocity and volume of flow (in this case air)... you'll be sorely disappointed with a lower rated stat if the rest of your cooling system isn't up to snuff... it's either under built for your application, or something is wrong with it..

Think of it like this: if your working that engine, it should never exceed 10+ degrees above the state rating... when it's open wide the exchange should be efficient enough to cool it.. it will take longer with a cooler stat as it starts it's flutter earlier, but if you're producing heat faster than it can exchange, that isn't going to be resolved by just starting sooner...

The only exception to this is slow speeds, or while in reverse, when the air going through the exchange is relying solely on the clutch fan... that can be remedied by installing an electric fan... that's something I highly recommend anyway..

As far as running a transmission too cool, that'll be hard to do.. most if not all have a thermostatic bypass of their very own, and which attempts to maintain a steady temperature. Exchanging the heat out is the problem most encounter, not keeping them warmer... the only issue there is that most those valves allow a portion past all the time, regardless of temperature. That can be a problem in really cold environments. But that is splitting hairs.. the safe range for transmissions is much wider than it used to be.. I've never heard of a transmission warming itself via the radiator sleeve... as much as we'd like to think that makes sense, it just isn't so. There is a huge article on just that subject (fluid to fluid exchanges) I read on the interwebs written by a staff of white coats who debunked the pure purple shizen out of that theory both mathematically as well as in practice, from every application from fighter jets to the measly motor carriage.. it is good reading, all be it dry and difficult to focus on in its verbosity. After reading that article, I bypassed the flow to my radiator and just to the huge dedicated exchange on my super duty... I've noticed zero change in operating temperature... notta.. zilch... from thirty below temps to well north of a hundred... the trans temp ranges on my rig between 170 and 190, and dependent on what I'm pulling solely... blame the internal thermostatic valve and that massive exchange in the grill... it starts opening at 165 and is fully open at 190... the few times I've seen 190, it was there only for a few seconds...

Point being: if it's that big a concern of yours, install an inline thermostatic valve... it's a ten minute job...
 

HenryJ

Expedition Leader
They got it right :) The colder stat will throw a code. Using the reading from the IAT , the PCM calculates the time needed to reach operating temperature. If this time is too slow , it sets a code. This is to detect a stuck thermostat. That said, it can be fooled :) Relocating the IAT can fool the PCM into thinking it takes more time and you might get away with a 180 stat. That said, it can be fooled :)
Not a real advantage for the Avalanche with the 5.3L . The temps are needed to keep the cat healthy. (BTW, if you are running hot, a plugging cat can be a suspect.)

Watch for debris build-up between the core and condenser. Keep both clean.
Do keep the transcooler inline with the radiator cooler. You need to preheat the fluid in the colder weather. The trans need to reach 73 degrees to start operating normally. That usually takes me a couple miles with a preheated engine.
I get my best mileage running 55 mph towing. Pretty sure we are geared the same ;) Hard to go slow when everyone else is doing 70+ though :) Seems to run cooler not pushing to keep up too.

Vent the hood for a little bit of help in cooling. :)
 

Stryder106

Explorer
Thanks again for all of the detailed answers - I keep learning............... Interesting HenryJ - I too get the best MPG while towing at 55MPH. I posted this as I was thinking a bit of chicken-egg: My water temp would climb while towing and pulling a grade (Cajon/Grapevine) when the truck would kick down to try and maintain some semblance of forward progress (thanks for the massive detune GM). I ended up smoking my trans. Now, here is my quandary: Was a defective trans (the dreaded 3-4 flare-slip-bang that was amplified by warm temps) the cause? Or, was the increasing fluid temp part of the cause that took out the trans? I've replaced the trans, so was thinking it may be beneficial to mitigate some of the heat. Sounds like it isn't.............
 

Buddha.

Finally in expo white.
Are you monitoring the transmission temp? When I installed a scanguage2 on my Blazer I was surprised to see it was running 220F in normal city traffic without a load. If I had tried to tow with it without addressing the problem no doubt I would have smoked the trans.
 

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