Oh, the joys of vehicle shopping....

shade

Well-known member
turns out the finance person had accidentally (their words) checked a box giving me an extended warranty because most of their customers purchase the extended warranty.
That's some serious shadiness right there. Of all the mistakes that could be made, that one just happened to tack a big chunk of money onto your tab. In this instance, accidentally sounds more like plausible deniability to me, but maybe he's just a finance guy that isn't good with numbers and contracts.
 
D

Deleted member 9101

Guest
True. Brake controllers are usually simple to wire for most anything, but some tow packages include more, like a higher rated receiver hitch and a high output alternator; Toyota has done this with the Tacoma. I'd find out exactly what came with the Ford tow package before passing on it.

In the case of the newer F150s it simply plugs in, the wiring is already there. Then you simply activate it with Forscan or have the dealer do it for $20.00. I know this because I added an OEM brake controller to my truck.

Ford only offers two hitches, one for the Max Tow package and one for everyone else. The alternator is based on the engine choice, not a tow package.
 

Cackalak Han

Explorer
At this point I'm contemplating casting a wider net and doing a fly out/drive back deal. There are trucks that meet my specs in Salt Lake City and I can get a cheap 1 way flight for under $75.

Check Kendall and Lithia in Boise. Better deals. Even if you custom order.
 

luthj

Engineer In Residence
That's some serious shadiness right there. Of all the mistakes that could be made, that one just happened to tack a big chunk of money onto your tab. In this instance, accidentally sounds more like plausible deniability to me, but maybe he's just a finance guy that isn't good with numbers and contracts.

It used to be really common for dealers to tack on 200-600$ in obscure options/fees to every vehicle sale after the initial pricing discussion. The monthly payments don't change noticeably. Often its cleaning fees, some random piece of junk stuck to the side, floor mat replacement, anything with a high profit margin. Most folks are overwhelmed and don't read the fine details.


On the towing package and wiring front. Some vehicles stability programs use the wiring harness to detect if you are towing a trailer. Aftermarket wiring doesn't always trigger this in the software. Its different if the harness is pre-wired, and you just attach the control unit.
 

CrazyDrei

Space Monkey
You must buy very used vehicles if that's the case.

Shade,

Yes very very very used and drive them like i stole them. Last truck was a 2011 Suburban 2500, former boarder patrol truck with 140k miles, and I paid less for it than most people here are budgeting for higher miles 2000-2006 Suburban.
 

shade

Well-known member
It used to be really common for dealers to tack on 200-600$ in obscure options/fees to every vehicle sale after the initial pricing discussion. The monthly payments don't change noticeably. Often its cleaning fees, some random piece of junk stuck to the side, floor mat replacement, anything with a high profit margin. Most folks are overwhelmed and don't read the fine details.


On the towing package and wiring front. Some vehicles stability programs use the wiring harness to detect if you are towing a trailer. Aftermarket wiring doesn't always trigger this in the software. Its different if the harness is pre-wired, and you just attach the control unit.
I'm familiar with the TruCoat Gambit. Extended warranties can add 5-10% to the cost of a purchase, which is a little bolder than rust inhibitor & pinstripes.


I'd forgotten about that aspect of OEM tow packages. My Toyota does as you suggested, and is supposed to modify the stability system to arrest trailer sway. I'm sure it'd still give it a try if the rear of the truck was being tugged around when using a DIY installation, but I can see how it may not be as effective.
 

CrazyDrei

Space Monkey
A couple years ago when gas was over $3.25/gal here I put a spreadsheet together to compare the cost of ownership of keeping my Expedition (older rig with about 200k miles on it at the time) vs getting a comparable but newer, more efficient vehicle that I had to finance. I factored in things like insurance costs, registration cost, maintenance costs and of course fuel costs. The older vehicle had more money allocated for repairs and fuel, but cheaper insurance/registration and no payments. Basically what I found out was that gas would have to be around $20/gal to BREAK EVEN. Obviously the payment cost of the new vehicle really slanted the odds towards the older vehicle.

ExplorerTom,

Wow, $20 per gallon break even, at how many miles per year driven and did that include depreciation costs of the vehicles?

Seven years ago a good friend of mine and I were both looking for reliable trucks/SUVs for us to use as DDs and adventure vehicles. We both drive approximately 30k miles per year. I bought a 2000 Suburban 1500 for $4,100 cash. He bought a 2007 RAM 2500 5.9 Cummings for $36k. He also rolled into the payment the balance of his previous car loan to come out to $724/month.

Diesel is slightly more expensive and got slightly better MPG than my gas truck so our annual fuel cost remained the same.

Maintenance: I have spent a little under $2,500 over the last 7 years and the truck remains my daily driver. He spends $1,000-3,000 per year and is closer to $12,000 in maintenance and repairs.

Insurance. I pay $100 per month less than he does, however he was able to lower it slightly a few months ago when he finally made his last payment.

Value. My truck is worth around $1,500 without the modifications or closer to $2,500 with the mods. His is worth $7-8k.

Bottom line. 7 years in each of the trucks.
Suburban expenses: 45,000 fuel, 4,900 insurance, 2,500 maintenance, 1,500 depreciation. $53,900 total or $7,700/year or $642/mo.
Ram expenses: 45,000 fuel, 13,300 insurance, 52,128 truck payment, 12,000 maintenance, 28,000 depreciation. $139,628 total, or $19,947/year or $1,662/mo.

His nicer shinier truck cost him over $1,000 more per month than my shiny beater of a Sub. We were both working for the same employer and making nearly identical paychecks.

I am not saying that my way was right and his way was wrong, this is where anyone can do as they please with their incomes. When I ran these numbers back then I could not justify spending that much on a new vehicle that depreciates into virtually nothing. I chose the lower budget path of a used vehicle, and the money I saved allowed me to retire at 35 and enjoy as much time as i can with my kids. My buddy with the RAM is working 5-6 14hr days per week and will be for another 20 some years.
 

shade

Well-known member
He also rolled into the payment the balance of his previous car loan
That's where people sign on for perpetual misery. Buy the right vehicle, and keep it at least long enough to own it. Some people change cars like cell phones - which is another ticket aboard the screw train.
 

Dances with Wolves

aka jk240sx
That's some serious shadiness right there. Of all the mistakes that could be made, that one just happened to tack a big chunk of money onto your tab. In this instance, accidentally sounds more like plausible deniability to me, but maybe he's just a finance guy that isn't good with numbers and contracts.

Yeah, it's called sliding. It happens more often than you think. usually the F&I guy jiggies the other numbers in the deal so he can include the warranty in the deal without increasing the payment amount. The commission on Extended warranties are huge, sometimes up to 50% of the cost. I worked F&I for about 6 months after I sold my insurance agency. I quit due to the fact I have ethics and wouldn't "take peoples heads off".
 

AbleGuy

Officious Intermeddler
If you do go used, check Carfax. Not for accidents. But to see where it’s from. There are a ton of salt/rust belt trucks being bought at auction and sold out near your area (western states), where they can get more money for them. Rust belt not only includes the NE, but also lots of Canadian trucks being imported.
Flood Belt vehicles too.

With all of the thousands of acres of US land flooded in recent years by hurricanes and river floods, etc., you need to be extremely careful about a used vehicle”s geographic history.
 

AbleGuy

Officious Intermeddler
Yeah, it's called sliding. It happens more often than you think. usually the F&I guy jiggies the other numbers in the deal so he can include the warranty in the deal without increasing the payment amount. The commission on Extended warranties are huge, sometimes up to 50% of the cost. I worked F&I for about 6 months after I sold my insurance agency. I quit due to the fact I have ethics and wouldn't "take peoples heads off".

Geeze, with the internet easily available for computing your monthly payment using an online payment calculator, just how dumb do you need to be to not know ahead of time what your payments should be? It’s hard to have much sympathy for lazy or stupid car buyers.

I once was in the process of buying a new truck and the finance guy there at the dealership came up with a monthly payment “only” $2.00 more than what I’d figured ahead of time. We argued about these two figures and he finally tried to get me to accept it because it was only a minor dollar difference. Yeah, times dozens of vehicles sold each month, times 12 months, that “minor” amount made some nice extra moolah for the dealership. No thanks....
 

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
Does every F150 come pre-wired like that, or just ones with an OEM tow package? I'm unfamiliar with how Ford does it, but Toyota only has brake controller wiring installed with the OEM tow package.

Every truck should already have it.
 

UHAULER

Explorer
Yeah, it's called sliding. It happens more often than you think. usually the F&I guy jiggies the other numbers in the deal so he can include the warranty in the deal without increasing the payment amount. The commission on Extended warranties are huge, sometimes up to 50% of the cost. I worked F&I for about 6 months after I sold my insurance agency. I quit due to the fact I have ethics and wouldn't "take peoples heads off".
Back in 2015 we were buying a 2012 Nissan Pathfinder for my wife. My brother in Law works in the service department of the local Ford/Nissan dealership and found one. i figured the process would be easy since the price was already set at bro in laws employee price, i think it was around 1,000-1,500 over what they were into it. Walked into finance and everything was going good until he brought up extended warranty. I politely but firmly told him no warranty, nothing extra. He pointed to a huge warranty poster on the wall to scare me. Again Not interested. About 5 minutes later he brought up the warranty , again I told him not interested. Another 5-10 minutes later he brings up the warranty giving me the scare tactic that he's never heard of anybody passing up a warranty. At this point I'm getting a little pissed and he can tell by the tone of my voice and body language. I could tell he was so butthurt at not making a huge commission. The dude was a pro and probably made very good money.
 

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