Oh, the joys of vehicle shopping....

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
:rolleyes:

Now I remember why I hate this process so much.

So a few weeks ago we went camping again. Wife wanted me to have some "motorcycle time" so she offered to drive the Suburban to the campsite in the morning while I worked, and I could then ride up on my bike after work to the campsite. She's pretty good at setting up the trailer so I said "sure."

She's driven the 'Burb and pulled our camper (R-Pod 179) on several occasions -but always on flat ground, on the Eastern plains. This was her first time pulling the R-Pod through the mountains (over 10,000' Kenosha Pass.)

FIRST thing she said to me after I rode up on my bike was: "Honey, you need a new truck!"

So I said I'd start looking around. We even went and test drove both a Ram 1500 and an F-150 with the 2.7 Ecoboost. We both liked the Ford better (though it was close.)

Then I start shopping around to find what I want: CCSB, 2018 (for the 10 speed tranny), 2.7, 4x4, with heated seats and a 36 gallon tank, NO LEATHER and preferably a rear locker (the last one isn't a deal breaker but it's a strong preference.) Budget is $35k.

I actually find several in the Denver metro area but unfortunately the ones that are set up the way I want are nearly 40 miles away, so I can't go look at them right away.

In the meantime, I'm going onto various web sites and sending emails to dealers.

And THIS IS WHERE THE BULLSH*T STARTS! ?

You know, I get that salesmen gotta make a living, that everyone's gotta eat, etc etc etc. I get it, seriously I do. People want to make money and they want to make as much as possible. Hey, if I was a salesman, I'd want to get the max payout from each sale as I could because you never know where the next one is coming from.

But good LORD why do they have to lie and BS so much? Salesmen like to say "buyers are liars" but buyers are nothing compared to salesmen.

I thought I'd try to be straightforward: This is my budget, this is what I'm looking for, no ifs, ands or buts. This is what I want and this is my price.

So OF COURSE, I get the "You're looking for USED and your budget is $35k? OK, here's a BRAND NEW truck that I can get you into for $41k. Oh, and it also it has a V8, leather seats and the small gas tank. Can we do business today?"

Um, NO **************. ?

But again, I'm trying to be cool. "Thanks, but that's not what I'm looking for." I then patiently explain (for the 2nd time) exactly what I want and exactly what my budget is.

So then he emails me back "You know, used trucks are really holding their value. You likely won't find a used truck with the equipment you need for your price point. But for just a few thousand more I can get you into a new one. We have great financing options!"

Does this numbnuts not understand that I own a computer?

It's one thing for a salesman to say something that pushes his product (We sell the best! Our customer service is number one!) I expect that.

But for him to say something that is not only untrue, but that is so obviously, clearly and demonstrably untrue says one of two things: Either he's an idiot, or he thinks I'm an idiot. Or he thinks I'm lazy, or desperate.

Of course, I'm just ranting here and obviously, the smart thing to do at this point is to cease communications with this moron (and I'll do just that) but I guess the reason I'm posting this is because it just shows how frustrating the car buying experience can be.

I don't know if anyone here is in vehicle sales, but let me just throw a piece of free advice out there: It's actually better to say "I don't know" than it is to outright lie. And telling someone "you won't find a better deal than this" when they have access to an internet machine is pretty stupid unless you are sure you're right.

UGH! So the process continues. Knock wood, I may have a new vehicle by the weekend.
 

85_Ranger4x4

Well-known member
If the price is close to new you get better financing on new.

But yeah, the last time I bought a new to me truck I had to argue with a salesman if a truck was 4wd or not. Then the 4.6 towed about the same as a 5.4... just ick.

I found my '02 at a small lot, guy said "it is a really nice truck, here are the keys and see what you think" 14 years later he retired/closed and I don't know if I ready to go thru the process again.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
When I was shopping for my Tacoma a few years ago I had very specific requirements - Access Cab and a manual transmission. I did not care about year, trim, anything else. I was willing to buy new or used. I actually wanted a new truck, in fact. So I went into Petersen in Ft. Collins looking for one, which was at the time (late 2014, early 2015) an impossible task as Toyota was changing generations and not building many trucks that weren't Double Cab, TRD, heavily loaded and most popular.

In parallel I was shopping CL and other used ads. It was actually the dealer salesman I first contacted about 3 months earlier who called and told me they took a nice 2008 in trade that I might be interested in. They had another which he didn't call me about interestingly, but it was worn out and in poor shape overall and wasn't going to buy. Since I was paying cash, he accepted my offer and we were done. It was a pleasant experience.

So when the time came to replace the car we naturally went back looking for RAV4s this time. We wanted something newer or new if possible but, again, had to be a stick shift (which ruled out RAV4 new by then). This time was the polar opposite. Typical salesman b.s. and run around. I think it was because it was my wife doing the shopping primarily and he sensed potential weakness. Ended up with a Subaru because when she went to the dealer (knowing the 2017 Forester still had sticks in the base car) she was working with a woman.

I think it's luck of the draw, which side of the bed they got up from, if it's a full moon. I dunno. No matter I much prefer buying used private party from the owner, cash-and-carry. There's a major potential for nonsense (like title issues) but due diligence and it seems to be less stressful to me.
 
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Cackalak Han

Explorer
Went through the same recently. I told one sales guy what I wanted and my budget and first thing he said was, no that’s the wrong truck for you. Let’s find you something else. **see ya!!**

“We are losing money selling it to you at this price!”

“Oh, I don’t have one with what you asked for, but what about this one that has nothing you want?”

So frustrating. But finally got someone good. Worth the several hour drive.
Got a 3.5EB, no leather, max tow, ~2k Payload, rear locker for just over $35k. Brand new. You’d just need to install a seat heater but that’s cheap. I bet if you’re looking for a 2.7, you’d be under $35k. Let me know if you need a reference. I can send you to the same sales guy in Idaho. Straight shooter and no Bs.

ie - One example. $33k. Just add seat heaters for $3-400.

 
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85_Ranger4x4

Well-known member
I'm not buying used for 35, when 38-41 is new. Don't sound like a swindle at all.

A used truck, PERFECTLY new, is only worth half price IMO.

It is only worth what someone will pay. I guess there are a lot of people that can't quite get approved for a new one but can squeak into a new one.

Used and fairly new ain't half priced anymore around me unless it is crowding 200k miles or has a salvage title.
 

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
I'm not buying used for 35, when 38-41 is new. Don't sound like a swindle at all.

A used truck, PERFECTLY new, is only worth half price IMO.

:rolleyes: If I lived in the "rust belt" I might agree with you but I don't. A lightly used vehicle is the same as new around here, you just don't pay the depreciation, AKA the "Sucker Tax." ;)

Besides that, it's an apples-to-oranges comparison. That "NEW $38k truck" is a base-model stripper that has NOTHING I want: No locker, no heated seats, no 36 gallon tank.

By contrast the 1 year old, 15k mile truck still has 21,000 miles of warranty and is fully loaded with everything I want.

A better comparison would be comparing the loaded new truck to the loaded used truck - now you're talking nearly $10k of price difference. I don't know what your situation is, but $10k is a lot of money to me.

Not financing so that's not a concern.

I found one about 35 miles away that has everything except the 2.7. It has the 3.5 which is fine for me (more power is better, right?) Under $35k even with dealer fees and it already has the trailer towing accessories and the max payload package so that's a bonus.

May look at it tonight.
 
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Todd n Natalie

OverCamper
I found one about 35 miles away that has everything except the 2.7. It has the 3.5 which is fine for me (more power is better, right?) Under $35k even with dealer fees and it already has the trailer towing accessories and the max payload package so that's a bonus.

May look at it tonight.
Good luck! Sounds like it could be a good truck for you!

Just out of curiosity, were you looking at the newer body style Rams or the Ram 'classics'?
 

LimaMikeMike

Observer
The company I work for has “company pricing” with FCA, GM and recently now Ford (after 26 years of buying fleet vans and trucks I have no idea why it took so long).

If you can check with your work place or veteran discounts, tread lightly etc. Makes the process way easier and you deal with the fleet sales manager who makes money on volume not trying to squeeze every last drop of every deal.

It probably leaves some money on the table, but it’s painless. The FCA deal has a public website you can plug in your access code and build and price and see the discount as you go, search dealers lots and compare pricing on dealer stock. The Gladiator wasn’t available through this program when I last checked?

I almost bought a Ranger using x-plan, the dealer still managed mess it up though. At that time they were the only dealer that had significant stock, everyone else had ones and twos.
 

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
Good luck! Sounds like it could be a good truck for you!

Just out of curiosity, were you looking at the newer body style Rams or the Ram 'classics'?

I was looking at the "classics." The new 2019 body style hasn't been around long enough for there to be a significant number of used vehicles. That makes it tougher to find one that has the features I want and the prices tend to be significantly higher.

Also it's probably just a superstition but I don't like to buy the first year of any new body style, regardless of the manufacturer. I figure there are always bugs to work out so I'll wait until that generation has "matured."
 

luthj

Engineer In Residence
With almost every other commodity or consumer good, companies work hard to make your shopping experience easy. Price matching, easy comparison of features, decent websites, etc. For some very dumb reasons, the auto sales world is still trapped in a 1950s paradigm. Price as high as possible with MSRP. Don't offer the options folks want, unless you bundle them with expensive packages. Then make the popular colors rare, and only put them on fully optioned models.

Put a line of semi-incompetent, or unscrupulous salespeople up front. Pay them purely on commission, given double or triple rate for sales above a certain profit margin.


Here is a great example. My father bought a new toyota SUV 2 years ago. The dealer calls him, and says its due for a "warranty service". He goes in thinking its free, and they spring a 350$ cost on him (thankfully before he said yes). He calls me to ask ******? I call them and ask about it. The service advisor tells me is "required to maintain the warranty on the transmission and transfer case". After I pressure him to show me where Toyota requires the service, he finally gives in. The "warranty" is the BG products (aftermarket fluid seller) warranty, where they will supposedly pay for a failed trans if you use there product on a ridiculous 25k mile interval. When I asked why he had intentionally lied about the service (implied it was Toyota warranty) to make a sale, he told me to F off, and hung up.

/Rant

I have occasionally had good luck being very insistent in emails to dealers (borderline asinine). I simply say this is what I want, any emails otherwise will be ignored. I repeat what I want, ignoring their standard BS. Eventually one gets hungry and actually does what I ask...
 
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Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
Well, you know I gripe but I suppose I shouldn't paint with such a broad brush. For a different example, I saw a truck advertised on-line, drove to the dealership and was told the truck wasn't physically there (it was a dealership run by a big conglomerate that operated lots of dealerships so while this truck was 'destined' for the dealership in question, it wasn't there yet.)

The salesman took down my info and promised he'd get back with me. And he did. I had specific questions and he was able to answer them. He didn't pressure or try to get me to come in and buy it, he just responded to my questions quickly and courteously. He emailed me yesterday and said the truck was being detailed and that it should be available for me to look at this week. He's been responsive without being pushy or obnoxious and I think that more and more car dealerships are learning that this is the way to do business in the modern age.

But there are always a few old timers out there who still do things the old, high pressure way. Hopefully they'll soon go the way of the dinosaur.
 

AbleGuy

Officious Intermeddler
FWIW, if you wind up re-thinking the idea of buying new, you might look into Costco’s car sales service.

We recently bought our new Suby Outback using Costco’s very helpful members’ service.
It turned out to be a no B.S., very pleasant, stress free purchase and we felt we got a good, fair price.
 
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AbleGuy

Officious Intermeddler
Re your great observation that “It's actually better to say "I don't know" than it is to outright lie.”

That’s so well put.....and so true!

This rule definitely is a coda that so many people in so many professions would hugely benefit by, by following this advice as a simple Holy Grail for their business interactions with others.

Why is it so stupidly hard for people to admit where their knowledge falls off in discussing with you something you want to purchase from them? It’s completely insulting to your intelligence for them to make up or guess at the answers to important questions you ask.
 

AbleGuy

Officious Intermeddler
...and the salesperson who ignores the crystal clear guidelines you provide about your vehicle needs is either lazy, stupid or rude [or possibly even all three?].

Lazy.....just not making the effort to pay attention to and respond to your desires;
Stupid.....just too dumb to understand what you’re trying to tell them about your desires;
Rude...purposely ignores what you said in hopes of selling you “what they have vs. what you want.”

This :poop: happens to many of us all too frequently.
 

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