Official Test Results: Five Ways to Heat a Tent
- Thread starter MattJ
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Graton
Member
I recently ordered the Propex kit from AT - haven't assembled it yet, but I'm impressed with all that MattJ has done with it. I have the AT habitat on my Tacoma and once I have the kit assembled, need to figure out best placement for it @MattJ - do you think it would work sitting above the cab with short hoses going into the tent, and running the exhaust off the side away from the Habitat?
MattJ
Adventurer
Yes - that's very similar to how I plan to use it, sitting on the roof of the Jeep, a few feet from the tent. Be sure to study all of my posts and Amazon.com links about how I built the hoses. The insulated hoses are the key to the whole system working efficiently (both output and intake). Good luck - post your pictures and results in this thread!
Graton
Member
I've read the entire thread a few times and ordering the 12.5 ft hose from Amazon this week. I'll probably assembly next weekend if nothing comes up. Any tips on assembling the kit - or just come out to the west coast, 77F degrees and sunny today.
MattJ
Adventurer
I bought mine pre-assembled. Good luck! I did do some tinkering with the thermostat, which arrives with no back (just a tangle of bare wires).
jacobconroy
Hillbilly of Leisure
A couple of notes from a guy that has been running a Propex in an Adventure Trailers tool box for an RTT for two seasons:
I have never extended the combustion intake/outtake more than the lengths contained inside the AT toolbox and always used the heater while sitting right outside my tent (on a shelf). I have an quality carbon monoxide detector that I run in the tent at all times when using the Propex. It has never picked up more than 5 PPM with this setup. Almost always registers 0 PPM. Of course, when the heater is running the windows to the tent are closed. Personally, I don't think it's necessary to extend the combustion hoses. Always use a good detector though.
I recommend installing a second 60 mm hose as a "return" line to your tent. Meaning, you have both a supply and return line for the warm air. This will save propane, battery power, and I've found that drawing outside air into the heater will pump ice cold air into your tent when the fan runs for 45 seconds before combustion, and pump ice cold air into your tent for several minutes after combustion stops. This really "knocks the crap" out of your heating efforts.
If the 60 mm hoses are outside of your tent, I recommend that you insulate them.
When I've slept in the RTT without the Propex (around 25º F), my sleeping bags were very wet in the morning. When using the Propex, the bags do not get wet. A Propex is a forced-air furnace, much like the one in your home. It will dry out your tent and gear. In fact, the best way to dry out a wet RTT is to hook up a Propex and blast heat into it for an hour or two when you get home, then pack away your RTT.
I'm no expert, but I've spent a lot of time and money monkeying around with this little heater.
I have never extended the combustion intake/outtake more than the lengths contained inside the AT toolbox and always used the heater while sitting right outside my tent (on a shelf). I have an quality carbon monoxide detector that I run in the tent at all times when using the Propex. It has never picked up more than 5 PPM with this setup. Almost always registers 0 PPM. Of course, when the heater is running the windows to the tent are closed. Personally, I don't think it's necessary to extend the combustion hoses. Always use a good detector though.
I recommend installing a second 60 mm hose as a "return" line to your tent. Meaning, you have both a supply and return line for the warm air. This will save propane, battery power, and I've found that drawing outside air into the heater will pump ice cold air into your tent when the fan runs for 45 seconds before combustion, and pump ice cold air into your tent for several minutes after combustion stops. This really "knocks the crap" out of your heating efforts.
If the 60 mm hoses are outside of your tent, I recommend that you insulate them.
When I've slept in the RTT without the Propex (around 25º F), my sleeping bags were very wet in the morning. When using the Propex, the bags do not get wet. A Propex is a forced-air furnace, much like the one in your home. It will dry out your tent and gear. In fact, the best way to dry out a wet RTT is to hook up a Propex and blast heat into it for an hour or two when you get home, then pack away your RTT.
I'm no expert, but I've spent a lot of time and money monkeying around with this little heater.
VanIsle_Greg
I think I need a bigger truck!
Interesting read... lots of options, testing and I agree, forced air is the way to go. The furnace in our travel trailer is a 50 or 60,000 BTU forced air unit with 4 ducts...amazing heat and nice and dry too. I want to replicate that for my custom Pop up camper... and a portable unit would be ideal as I am limited for space.
My friend Andreas from Total Composites is selling these Planar Diesel portable units and I think I might need to pick one up at some point. That is a lot of $, but its compact and with a few mods to my camper it could be an easy way to camp year round and stay nice and warm.
https://totalcomposites.com/product/portable-diesel-air-heater-planar-3d-12-volt/
That is another friend Brad's trailer and tent he built just this year. Andreas has one in his Sprinter... I think he posted earlier in this thread actually?
My friend Andreas from Total Composites is selling these Planar Diesel portable units and I think I might need to pick one up at some point. That is a lot of $, but its compact and with a few mods to my camper it could be an easy way to camp year round and stay nice and warm.
https://totalcomposites.com/product/portable-diesel-air-heater-planar-3d-12-volt/
That is another friend Brad's trailer and tent he built just this year. Andreas has one in his Sprinter... I think he posted earlier in this thread actually?
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jacobconroy
Hillbilly of Leisure
I've got a question for you peeps. I currently have an HS2000 in an Adventure Trailers toolbox (older model tool box). Now that I am moving to a van, I am thinking about selling my current setup and purchasing a Propex HS2211 so that I can permanently mount it under the van.
Of course, I would need to cut holes to run the 60 mm ducting in and out of the living space, but I really like the idea of:
Of course, I would need to cut holes to run the 60 mm ducting in and out of the living space, but I really like the idea of:
- Not having a propane connection in the living space
- Not spending space on the heater (inside the van)
If you mount the heater outside, you will use a fraction more fuel due to compensating for heat loss through the hose and the body of the heater. Theoretically that means using up propane faster which means frosting up faster. But in reality I doubt you would notice a difference at all. You may still have frosting issues, it just likely won't be worse than it would be others
Have you looked at the gasoline Espar/Webasto air heaters? The upside to those is that you can use the fuel from your vehicle's fuel tank so they'll never frost up. I have an old VW that came from the factory with an Eberspacher (now Espar) and it really heats the place up. The unit VanIsle_Greg showed above runs off of diesel also wouldn't have any issues frosting up.
However, propane is easy and burns very clean. I am not sure what the service life is on those propex units but I did notice a Webasto diesel fired unit that had a 3000 hour service interval recommendation
Have you looked at the gasoline Espar/Webasto air heaters? The upside to those is that you can use the fuel from your vehicle's fuel tank so they'll never frost up. I have an old VW that came from the factory with an Eberspacher (now Espar) and it really heats the place up. The unit VanIsle_Greg showed above runs off of diesel also wouldn't have any issues frosting up.
However, propane is easy and burns very clean. I am not sure what the service life is on those propex units but I did notice a Webasto diesel fired unit that had a 3000 hour service interval recommendation
jacobconroy
Hillbilly of Leisure
Good info. I hadn't thought about changing from Propex. I do have dual gasoline tanks in the van for a total of 40 gallons. You sir, have given me something to Google!
What is the general consensus about the reliability for gasoline heaters? Better or worse than a Propex? I don't mean to hijack the thread, but hopefully the OP will agree that keeping warm in the off seasons might be germane to the discussion.
MattJ
Adventurer
Feel free to hijack! As more people contribute to this thread, more knowledge gets shared.
Here are the results from my latest field test with the Propex:
1) After setting up my tent and the heater, I discovered the valve on the propane tank was broken. I tried every possible socket and wrench to open it, and only succeeded in stripping it. Fortunately, I was able to travel on foot and obtain another tank. There's a lesson in this story somewhere . . .
2) I wrapped the exhaust conduit around the propane tank, thinking it would make a small improvement to the tank temperature, helping to keep it from getting sluggish and lowering the pressure. I learned that the exhaust causes a LOT of condensation, which leaks out of the conduit and freezes into ice. When I disconnected the conduit at the end of the trip, there was a lot of water trapped in the coils. I'm not sure it's worth trying to find a different solution, since the conduit does work very well for routing the exhaust away from the tent. You can see the exhaust pumping onto the hood of my Jeep in one of the photos below.
3) I tried the 3-candle UCO lantern, which is rated for 5,000 BTUs. I guess it warmed up the tent a little bit, but it seemed most of that heat pooled at the roof. The propex system, however, cycled wonderful, dry warm air into the tent all night and kept it at 65F. It was very impressive how well it worked. Depending on where we set the thermostat, it was probably on five minutes and then off for 15 minutes, all night long.
4) Finally, I included a photo of one of the air vent soffits that is at the top of my tent. I noticed the seams are sealed to prevent leaks. For some reason, I've never noticed that detail before. I wanted to show the picture here as an endorsement for Tepui tents - I have been very impressed with my Autana Sky tent!
I have not owned a Propex or a modern gas or diesel fired heater so this is speculation.
I know that propane tends to burn "cleaner" than diesel and gasoline. When internal combustion engines are run on propane, they don't have quite as many carbon deposits as gas or diesel engines. Theoretically propane engines are "more reliable" at least from that standpoint.
I have an eberspacher gasoline fired air heater in an old VW that I have used for years. It tends to get quite a bit of carbon buildup fairly quickly. It has a funny glowplug/sparkplug igniter (seriously, it's both) that builds up carbon after a couple hundred hours. This might be because it's a 45 year old design or it might be because it wasn't supposed to be used with unleaded fuel. But, I do need to clean it fairly often. I just spray it down with oven cleaner and it's back up and running again. The new gasoline heaters might be better but I have a feeling propane will be even less likely to carbon up.
The nice thing about gasoline and diesel is that they are very dense. On low, Espar's D2 air heater burns 0.026 gallons/hour. On high it's 0.07. That's slightly more than a cup per hour. Not much
Remember that water is a byproduct of combustion with all of these fuels. Same with propane, gasoline or diesel. You're going to get a lot of condensation in the exhaust so route it accordingly.
jacobconroy
Hillbilly of Leisure
I've noticed that there is always a puddle of water in the bottom of the Adventure Trailers tool box after running the Propex. That must explain why.
After a good bit of Googling, it seems that the Diesel and Gas heaters are finicky about elevation (over 5000) and maintenance (carbon buildup).
I prefer to camp anywhere between 3500 and 8000 feet. Higher is better (and makes heat more important in my neck of the woods). Also seems that the propane heaters do not care about elevation. So, I think I will install my Propex first (since I own it) and then I might add a gas Espar later for redundancy. The plan will be to use the Espar unless there is any reason why I don't want to deal with it (elevation, carbon buildup, etc.)...then I'll just fire up the Propex and deal with the maintenance on the Espar at my leisure. If the Propex suffers from it's finicky nature, or frozen propane regulators...fire up the Espar!
Expensive plan though and will require quite a bit of labor.