OEM Split Wheel Questions

[ca18_sean]

So let me preface this by saying I've read dozens of OEM split wheel threads on multiple forums, and I'm still finding myself a little confused by some of the tube/flap/tire specifics.

I have a set of 16 inch, 6 lug split wheels that came on my HJ75. I also have a brand new set of Toyo Open Country MT 255/85 R16's. I tried taking the wheels and tires up to the local GCR tire center (as suggested in multiple forum posts) and the guy behind the counter said it's not safe to run tubeless tires on a rim that requires tubes. Something about the sidewall shoulder angle was different and inherently unsafe. I tried explaining to him that this wasn't an American split design and that I was pretty sure plenty of people were running tubeless tires on them with tubes but he was adamant about not doing it from a liability standpoint.

What gives? Should I just order a set of tubes and flaps and do it myself? He said they could balance them if I get them mounted elsewhere, but that in his opinion it was dangerous. Is this just your typical "I'm trying to avoid getting sued" mentality that's everywhere in America these days, or is he right?

If I do decide to do it myself, what tubes and flaps do I need to run this wheel/tire combo? I read this how to:

http://www.4wdonline.com/Wheels/Split.html

Seems relatively straightforward, and it's a skill I'd like to learn eventually just in case I need to do tire repairs in the field.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Davev1954]

You call them split wheels, but your links shows them as the old style split rims. I don't know how many are in current manf- but I doubt very many in USA. I would ask my friend to tell you about his experience with them, but he can't speak a full sentence. I am not joking with you (head injury). So I guess I don't have anything positive to add. I'm sure you have looked at replacing the wheels with steel wheels. I just googled HJ75/images and I see very few 'good to go' rigs with split rims.

 

[ca18_sean]

You call them split wheels, but your links shows them as the old style split rims. I don't know how many are in current manf- but I doubt very many in USA. I would ask my friend to tell you about his experience with them, but he can't speak a full sentence. I am not joking with you (head injury). So I guess I don't have anything positive to add. I'm sure you have looked at replacing the wheels with steel wheels. I just googled HJ75/images and I see very few 'good to go' rigs with split rims.

I'm not sure I understand the difference between a split wheel and a split rim... I take it you're not familiar with Toyota OEM split wheels/rims? They are very different than the US ones that blew up in your friend's face. Not trying to be rude, but it's not the same thing at all. They're extremely common in Australia, and from what I can see quite safe if done correctly. Still sold on new Land Cruisers overseas and I've yet to read a single story about one failing and hurting someone.

 

[ca18_sean]

Also, any ideas how to debead these things? I drove 2 F550's up on it and it still wouldn't unseat the bead. I'm guessing years in the outback have fused the metal and rubber together

 

[doug720]

The Toyota rims are different, and safer, but, in the US, most tire stores hear "split rims" and assume they are all the same - dangerous.

To break the bead -
1) Spray WD40 all around the bead and let it sit for a little while
2) Rotate the wheel 180 degrees from above and try again
3) Buy some good tire tools and do it yourself
4) Go to another commercial tire shop - I know GCR is, but try another, as many trailers use split rims. Make sure you show them how Toyota rims work.

I don't know about tube and tubeless tire differences.

 

[ca18_sean]

The Toyota rims are different, and safer, but, in the US, most tire stores hear "split rims" and assume they are all the same - dangerous.

To break the bead -
1) Spray WD40 all around the bead and let it sit for a little while
2) Rotate the wheel 180 degrees from above and try again
3) Buy some good tire tools and do it yourself
4) Go to another commercial tire shop - I know GCR is, but try another, as many trailers use split rims. Make sure you show them how Toyota rims work.

I don't know about tube and tubeless tire differences.

Yeah, I agree. The guy behind the counter heard split wheels and I could see in his face that he wasn't going to touch it.

As far as debeading goes, I already soaked it in PB Blaster and drove over it probably a dozen times at different angles. No go. I really think its because the rubber is stuck from being so old. I worked at a Nissan dealership through college and have plenty of experience working with standard tires. Just never tried to do it myself without a tire machine. I've been eyeing a set of tyre pliers... might just have to spend some cash there.

I'll go back by GCR tomorrow when our commercial account rep is working. He promised he'd take care of it. At least they can bust the beads loose for me and I'll finish the job by myself. He also said he can order the right tubes and flaps for me. I'll report back tomorrow Thanks for the help!

 

[doug720]

Here is a site with a few pictures of the differences between a tube type tire and a tubeless tire - https://www.google.com/search?q=tub...AS0g4rADg&ved=0CB0QsAQ#imgrc=8Rv9VGfKXsE0RM%3

Not sure if you can or can''t interchange the two, but you can see the differences clearly.

 

[Davev1954]

If they are different I'm happy to be corrected. Pretty sure that link you gave was talking about the rims I would avoid.

 

[PKDreamers]

Hi,
I can split rims on my HZJ75 from 12 years never had too many problems running tubless tyres(tires) with rust bands and tubed.

Have a good read here.

http://www.beadelltours.com.au/rim_debate.html

 

[ca18_sean]

Hi,
I can split rims on my HZJ75 from 12 years never had too many problems running tubless tyres(tires) with rust bands and tubed.

Have a good read here.

http://www.beadelltours.com.au/rim_debate.html

Great read, thank you!

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

I had 16" split rims on my FJ40 for several years when I ran sea kayak tours in Mexico. I mounted BFG ATs on them, and had the proper tube-type rim protectors installed.

While it was true I could break down a wheel in the middle of nowhere and repair a flat (which always impressed clients), it was incontrovertible that I experienced more frequent flats; not sure why. Much more worrisome, in that time I experienced two catastrophic blowouts that each destroyed a tire. I still don't know the cause - tubeless tire running tubes and overheating? Perhaps. In any case I finally gave up on them and installed standard (alloy) wheels. My ride and handling were transformed.

Given the ease of repairing 90 percent of flats on tubeless tires with a plug - usually without even removing the wheel - and the possibility to demount and remount a tubeless tire if needed with Tyrepliers, I think the historic advantages of split rims are now illusory.

 

[ca18_sean]

I had 16" split rims on my FJ40 for several years when I ran sea kayak tours in Mexico. I mounted BFG ATs on them, and had the proper tube-type rim protectors installed.

While it was true I could break down a wheel in the middle of nowhere and repair a flat (which always impressed clients), it was incontrovertible that I experienced more frequent flats; not sure why. Much more worrisome, in that time I experienced two catastrophic blowouts that each destroyed a tire. I still don't know the cause - tubeless tire running tubes and overheating? Perhaps. In any case I finally gave up on them and installed standard (alloy) wheels. My ride and handling were transformed.

Given the ease of repairing 90 percent of flats on tubeless tires with a plug - usually without even removing the wheel - and the possibility to demount and remount a tubeless tire if needed with Tyrepliers, I think the historic advantages of split rims are now illusory.

This is exactly the type of post I like to see. Thank you for your real world experience with the same setup I'm considering running. I really do like the look of the split wheels, but you have me considering buying a more standard wheel.

 

[redthies]

Wow. Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night Jonathon? I almost needed a dictionary and thesaurus to read your post:elkgrin:

However, I totally agree with you. For 99% of circumstances in today's world there is little or no advantage in having split rims. You may be able to get them to work, but the advantage of being able to field service them is in my opinion lost when you realize that if you cut a tire to the point of not being able to patch it, NOBODY is going to want to help you get a new tire on them. I picture limping it into a small town where they only have a chain tire shop in 100* and 100% humidity and having to wrestle a tire in some parking lot while your wife and kids give you the stink eye!

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

I almost needed a dictionary and thesaurus to read your post

Sorry about that.

Split rims are cool in theory, but imagine having to completely break down the wheel and tire every time you pick up a nail. It loses its romance quickly. I still deal with them a lot in Africa, but there they're mounted with ten-ply bias-belted tires. No reason for them anywhere else, and the difference in ride and handling is significant. Those things are heavy.

 

[ca18_sean]

I went ahead and mounted it up to see how it goes. Got the bead off finally. Pretty simple design and I figure I could probably do it again in about 20 minutes. Still undecided what path I want to take since I already have the wheels.

Takes a 7.50R16 tube with a TR75A valve for radial tires. Came with a matching flap.

Basically this thread says everything. I read it before but some of it didn't make sense until I saw the actual wheel/tire.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/split-rims-bias-ply-tires-tubes-and-tube-liners.607335/