Next generation snatch block

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
#46
"sport"? If you can GAIN weight while doing it, it isn't a sport.

/'here, hold my beer and hand me the winch remote'
Oh I have lost weight while getting a winch workout for SURE during an extended recovery.
Anything that can be done to eliminate weight in the vehicle and on the person doing the rigging is a good thing.
 
#47
Metcalf, I am looking forward to your video. My issue is not with synthetic rope. I have been using synthetic rope to rig things since the 90's. I have no issue with soft shackles, I have none but if/when the need comes for new shackles I will probably go that direction. My issue is using the ring as a pulley.

I have been off-roading since the 90s and Warn has always been who I looked to as far as what is expectable, there are other sources also but Warn is the leader (for me anyway). Professionally I work with a SAR organization and deal with purchasing and requirements. I look at a few sources for items dealing with various disciplines of SAR course the NFPA stamp of approval. I don't see these rings available at any of my trusted sources and these ring don't have the stamp of approval I look for. The only pulleys I see are preassembled as a specific piece of equipment. Therefore I am very skeptical.
 
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Metcalf

Expedition Leader
#48
It is new technology in the off road sport. It started with one or two companies giving it a try....now I notice 3 or 4. Give it a little time....
 
#49
It is new technology in the off road sport. It started with one or two companies giving it a try....now I notice 3 or 4. Give it a little time....
It is piece of aluminum, it isn't new technology. If it works it is a "better mouse trap".

I can't visualize this working in the situation I have been in where I would need it to work. I am hoping your video can help me actually see it work.
 
#51
That was an easy pull up a slight incline, not a recovery. No variation in terrain and constant tension on the load. I am liking the soft shackles though. The guy rigged the load up with enough tension to keep it tight at one point he even had to support the ring with his hand. The more and more I see these bull **** "recoveries" with this ring the more and more I am convinced that this ring is not a good idea. I have searched the web for any legitimate recovery performed with this ring and found nothing.

Metcalf, do your video and prove me wrong. Trust me, I have no issue being wrong if in the process I learn something.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
#52
It is piece of aluminum, it isn't new technology. If it works it is a "better mouse trap".

I can't visualize this working in the situation I have been in where I would need it to work. I am hoping your video can help me actually see it work.
It is a pulley, yes they have been around a bit.

I'll try and replicate your concerns the best I can. I know where you are coming from, but i think you are focusing too much on one small issue. The SAME thing is a existing problem with synthetic lines and traditional snatch blocks. The line can get pinched in groove between the pulley and the side plate when the tension cycles.
 
#53
[QUOTE="Metcalf, post: 2550319, member:]


How long is a snatch block bearing/bushing going to last when it is in the same gritty environment?


I'll go one further. How many people would actually wear out one of these units even with all the issues mentioned? I know we all think we are rain forest challenge competitors and all.

Even if the idea isn't perfect, I very much appreciate that people are TRYING to innovate in the sport.

[/QUOTE]


Nearly forever.

Potentially very quick with ANY damage to the pulley.

This is nothing like the concept of synthetic winch to me which had pretty clear use cases.

Innovate our sport? The sport of Overlanding? ...No.
 
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Metcalf

Expedition Leader
#54
Nearly forever.

Potentially very quick with ANY damage to the pulley.

This is nothing like the concept of synthetic winch to me which had pretty clear use cases.

Innovate our sport? The sport of Overlanding? ...No.
Have you run a snatch block in a nasty environment for an extended period? I've had units rust up just from being stored in an open vehicle for too long.

So the use cases from the marine world and arborist industries don't count in this case?





They are called 'Low Friction Rings' in the sailing world. They have been around for maybe a decade now?

The same tech is also being used in the Arborist world too.



So now that we have that out of the way....

Can we talk about potential issues and their solutions instead of just popoin' every 'new' idea for this 'sport' now?
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
#56
Every example in the pics you posted show the ring being used more as a thimble and not a snatch block.
Here, I will do some more leg work for ya. I guess the hand holding needs to continue....



https://www.ropeye.co.nz/sail-rigging-hardware/

Are the 'block' applications listed by this manufacturer an accurate enough correlation reference for you?

The first examples I posted are only rigged the 'other' direction to help eliminate some extra connections. In low speed use this has some advantages because it deals with the on/off tension issues some have mentioned. The trade off is more wear on the ring and working line, but no wear on the mounting point connection. In a winching application for off-road work, it is better to have the ring rigged other way so that the wear is on the attaching mechanism ( soft shackle ) with less on the line. This is the 'block' type application in the picture I just posted. Again, pretty common in that world. It is also a direct correlation to the off road sport with the same parts.
 
#57
You don’t have to hold my hand or do legwork for me, the discussion is about using the ring as a snatchblock replacement, not a thimble replacement.
 
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Metcalf

Expedition Leader
#58
You don’t have to hold me hand or do legwork for me, the discussion is about using the ring as a snatchblock replacement, not a thimble replacement.
And so then I posted further examples that CLEARLY show the same low friction ring concept being used in exactly the same situation as a snatch block.

The line is still traveling though the 'thimble' redirecting the pull. In one configuration the wear is biased towards the ring. In the other configuration you can bias the wear to the soft shackle when rigged as a block. You can rig these rings either way to accomplish various tasks. This is actually a potential bonus to the ring concept vs a traditional snatch block in my opinion. Pound for pound, I can take about 8x as many rings vs traditional snatch blocks.

Ready to move on yet?
 
#59
Yes, lets move on.

Now I have zero sailing experience but am now curious how much force is put on the rings when used as thimbles, would it even be close to what we would put them through while winching?


I will be hitting a few trails later this month that will more than likely see a lot of winch useage and will put the ring through its paces and see what happens. I’ll be sure to report back afterwards.

I also look forward to seeing how you make out with it.
 
#60
Here, I will do some more leg work for ya. I guess the hand holding needs to continue....



https://www.ropeye.co.nz/sail-rigging-hardware/

Are the 'block' applications listed by this manufacturer an accurate enough correlation reference for you?

The first examples I posted are only rigged the 'other' direction to help eliminate some extra connections. In low speed use this has some advantages because it deals with the on/off tension issues some have mentioned. The trade off is more wear on the ring and working line, but no wear on the mounting point connection. In a winching application for off-road work, it is better to have the ring rigged other way so that the wear is on the attaching mechanism ( soft shackle ) with less on the line. This is the 'block' type application in the picture I just posted. Again, pretty common in that world. It is also a direct correlation to the off road sport with the same parts.
those ropeye bocks look interesting.
 
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