Next Gen Land Cruiser

[redthies]

I’m on the BC - Washington border. Tons of Toyota love on both sides. When you look at the price of the Rubicon, or Gladigaytor, you can see that there is definitely room for 70 series rigs.

Edit:
I just did a build & price on Toyota Australia. A GXL (top trim level) in a 76 wagon is about the exact same as a JLUR and the GXL Doublecab ute is almost the exact same as a Rubicon Gladiator. I’m talking less than $2000 difference in MSRP, and not in the direction you might think. Give that fact, and the fact that the Heep dealers can’t keep that crap on the lots, I’d say 70s would sell like hot cakes here.

 

[nickw]

I’m on the BC - Washington border. Tons of Toyota love on both sides. When you look at the price of the Rubicon, or Gladigaytor, you can see that there is definitely room for 70 series rigs.

Edit:
I just did a build & price on Toyota Australia. A GXL (top trim level) in a 76 wagon is about the exact same as a JLUR and the GXL Doublecab ute is almost the exact same as a Rubicon Gladiator. I’m talking less than $2000 difference in MSRP, and not in the direction you might think. Give that fact, and the fact that the Heep dealers can’t keep that crap on the lots, I’d say 70s would sell like hot cakes here.

Try pricing out a Ford Raptor is Aus

What you just pointed is exactly why they'd sell for more in the US. Jeep bumped up price in Australia in line with the LC's when they should be less....that could be cost of business driven or market driven, likely (as always) a combo of both. Toyota would do the same in reverse, they'd be a good bit more than the high end Jeeps....for a rig with low end amenities.

They'd have to manuf stateside due to taxes and cost of production to even make it somewhat feasible (price wise) which is not something they'd do, LC's have always been made in Japan so get hit with all the import tax stuff, shipping costs, supply chain costs, etc. not to mention the parts cache they'd have keep in stock around the US that uses no (or minimal) parts from current domestic Toyota rigs.

What if they decided to use the Tacoma or 4Runner platform and put a 70 type body on it? It alleviates the import issues and parts supply chain....I could maybe see that happening, somewhat akin to the FJ Cruiser, but then the LC aficionados would be up in arms about it not being "real" and honestly, it's just a lifestyle vehicle at that point and doesn't offer a tangible benefit over either of the rigs it was based on.

Hate being buzzkill, and open for somebody to change my mind, just don't see how it would work.

 

[Todd n Natalie]

View attachment 571748

Based on 3/6/2020 exchange rate AUS$83,078 = US$55,114

View attachment 571749

I may be in the minority here. But, given the choice between those two, I'd pick the Jeep.

But, I'd probably also be in the minority here because I'd pick a Taco over that LC truck or a HiLux as well....

 

[nickw]

I may be in the minority here. But, given the choice between those two, I'd pick the Jeep.

But, I'd probably also be in the minority here because I'd pick a Taco over that LC truck or a HiLux as well....

I wouldn't pick a Taco per-se, but that LC truck doesn't do anything for me. I'd prefer it in regular cab and absolutely can't stand being able to see the frame underneath the back of that tray.

I would pick this over a std. cab Toyota...F150, regular cab, 6.5 foot bed, HD Payload, V8 gas, torsen front diff from Raptor and 34's.

 

[phsycle]

Most of the lifted Jeeps around here (and there are plenty of them as well) probably never see dirt but people buy them. If Toyota came up with an attractive design attached to solid axles in the Wrangler price range (or even a little higher) they would do very well, IMO.

I get the love for Toyota up there, but why straight axles? Why would that result in better sales (over IFS)? Looks? I double the majority of Jeep and LC owners could tell you what kind of axles are under their trucks.

 

[DCGibbs]

As I have written in the past, TOYOTA USA, a stand-alone Division of TOYOTA Inc., does not care what the consumer wants, desires, etc. They told 32,000+ petitioners to go-pound-sand, when we asked that the FJCrusier have a 24Value-Turbo-Diesel and H55F 5 speed as an option. The USA has never had the opportunity to drive Diesel off a showroom floor/lot.

They (Toyota USA) have stopped two different "Independent brokers" from importing the 79 Series Double Cab PU, and Wagon. I don't ever see the day - that Toyota will delute their Market with a "Ruggized, Heavy Duty, stripped LandCruiser. . . The IFS that is in the Super4's really showed their stuff this year at the King of the Hammers. Speed, Flex, Total Travel distince of the Axels & wheels. But - I don't have a $ 1,000,000.00 to build a "racing" Overlander.
DG

 

[nickw]

As I have written in the past, TOYOTA USA, a stand-alone Division of TOYOTA Inc., does not care what the consumer wants, desires, etc. They told 32,000+ petitioners to go-pound-sand, when we asked that the FJCrusier have a 24Value-Turbo-Diesel and H55F 5 speed as an option. The USA has never had the opportunity to drive Diesel off a showroom floor/lot.

They (Toyota USA) have stopped two different "Independent brokers" from importing the 79 Series Double Cab PU, and Wagon. I don't ever see the day - that Toyota will delute their Market with a "Ruggized, Heavy Duty, stripped LandCruiser. . . The IFS that is in the Super4's really showed their stuff this year at the King of the Hammers. Speed, Flex, Total Travel distince of the Axels & wheels. But - I don't have a $ 1,000,000.00 to build a "racing" Overlander.
DG

The USA absolutely has had the opportunity, it's been a while though. Why would Toyota put the H55 in the FJC, that doesn't make sense, it's a HD tranny for the "LandCruisers" not the Prado, which the FJC is based. They could use an iteration of the stock 6 spd that came in it which would align with the design intent of the platform....I'm not privy on the lingo with Toyota trans these days, R15X series were always the "light duty" trans that were used in the lighter rigs, I'm guessing the FJC uses that or a current model / iteration of it....

The main issue with importation has nothing to do with Toyota but the laws the US has in place that govern it, like the crash safety, emissions and our 25 year import rule. If it wasn't for those laws, import at will.....but as we've pointed out, you'll pay for it! I don't see how Toyota could control that. They probably wouldn't allow a contracted "Dealership" to do it, if that is what you are referring to as a "broker" which would play into a bunch of legal stuff I'd imagine...manuf are required to supply parts for vehicles for a set number of years, if Toyota allowed a qualified "broker" or Toyota representative to do it, they may be indirectly allowing or complacent in the selling of vehicles in the US....and may have to jump through all sorts of legal, emissions, crash safety, supply chain hoops....

I think Toyota made a smart move on not importing diesels, they saw the writing on the wall which is where we are now, people are starting to switch back to gas due to the complexities of diesel. Toyota can't out engineer or streamline the emissions systems of their core complexities, they are complicated and continue to be so....why would Toyota sign up for that and potentially harm their rep.....that's how it played out in my head at Toyota Corp at least.

 

[T-Willy]

Try pricing out a Ford Raptor is Aus

What you just pointed is exactly why they'd sell for more in the US. Jeep bumped up price in Australia in line with the LC's when they should be less....that could be cost of business driven or market driven, likely (as always) a combo of both. Toyota would do the same in reverse, they'd be a good bit more than the high end Jeeps....for a rig with low end amenities.

They'd have to manuf stateside due to taxes and cost of production to even make it somewhat feasible (price wise) which is not something they'd do, LC's have always been made in Japan so get hit with all the import tax stuff, shipping costs, supply chain costs, etc. not to mention the parts cache they'd have keep in stock around the US that uses no (or minimal) parts from current domestic Toyota rigs.

What if they decided to use the Tacoma or 4Runner platform and put a 70 type body on it? It alleviates the import issues and parts supply chain....I could maybe see that happening, somewhat akin to the FJ Cruiser, but then the LC aficionados would be up in arms about it not being "real" and honestly, it's just a lifestyle vehicle at that point and doesn't offer a tangible benefit over either of the rigs it was based on.

Hate being buzzkill, and open for somebody to change my mind, just don't see how it would work.

In order to be a buzzkill, one must accept your reasoning. So, no worries.

 

[nickw]

In order to be a buzzkill, one must accept your reasoning. So, no worries.

+1...I guess we'll see if Toyota brings em' in and proves me wrong...

 

[GTV]

I get the love for Toyota up there, but why straight axles? Why would that result in better sales (over IFS)? Looks? I double the majority of Jeep and LC owners could tell you what kind of axles are under their trucks.

Why straight axles? Are you seriously asking me that question on an off-road forum??
For one it would be to differentiate itself from the Taco/T4R/etc. It would be redundant if it had IFS like the others. Being that the LC is the ultimate off-road Toyota it makes perfect sense. People who give a damn about that sort of thing would buy the hell out of them, everyone else who wants to look like they go off-road would buy them as well. Just like the Jeep.

 

[nickw]

So the 100 and 200 series Land Cruisers with IFS aren't really Land Cruisers?

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LOL

 

[nickw]

Why straight axles? Are you seriously asking me that question on an off-road forum??
For one it would be to differentiate itself from the Taco/T4R/etc. It would be redundant if it had IFS like the others. Being that the LC is the ultimate off-road Toyota it makes perfect sense. People who give a damn about that sort of thing would buy the hell out of them, everyone else who wants to look like they go off-road would buy them as well. Just like the Jeep.

In the case of the Jeep though, it is truly is optimized for offroad capability with it's soft suspension, optimized approach / departure angles, extremely deep low range gearing and axle disconnects....stock for stock, it would walk all over any LC70 out there. Could say the same thing for the Powerwagon. The LC70's were designed for work...which happens to make them good in some offroad situations, but that was never the specific design intent like the Rubicon or Powerwagon.

You'd need to take that LC70 and lift it, put some tires on it and modify it to compete with a Jeep offroad. In doing that you give up some of it's core DNA, it's payload capacity.

Longevity, durability, reliability are core competencies of the LC not offroad prowess (without major modifications).

 

[GTV]

So the 100 and 200 series Land Cruisers with IFS aren't really Land Cruisers?

View attachment 571796

Did I say they weren’t Land Cruisers? I’m in the market for a 100 currently because IFS/solid rear is the best compromise for a comfortable road vehicle and a capable off roader. Fits my needs perfectly. However, if Toyota did produce a new LC that had the aforementioned traits I would have to give it serious consideration. I’m not hopeful that they will but I sure would like the temptation.

 

[nickw]

Did I say they weren’t Land Cruisers? I’m in the market for a 100 currently because IFS/solid rear is the best compromise for a comfortable road vehicle and a capable off roader. Fits my needs perfectly. However, if Toyota did produce a new LC that had the aforementioned traits I would have to give it serious consideration. I’m not hopeful that they will but I sure would like the temptation.

Out of curiosity - if they offered a brand new 70 series right now at your dealership, how much would you pay for it?

 

[GTV]

In the case of the Jeep though, it is truly is optimized for offroad capability with it's soft suspension, optimized approach / departure angles, extremely deep low range gearing and axle disconnects....stock for stock, it would walk all over any LC70 out there. Could say the same thing for the Powerwagon. The LC70's were designed for work...which happens to make them good in some offroad situations, but that was never the specific design intent like the Rubicon or Powerwagon.

You'd need to take that LC70 and lift it, put some tires on it and modify it to compete with a Jeep offroad. In doing that you give up some of it's core DNA, it's payload capacity.

Longevity, durability, reliability are core competencies of the LC not offroad prowess (without major modifications).

You’re right but I never said anything about it being based on a 70 series (outside of assuming it would share the axles).