New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[JeepColorado]

I just picked up my Defender, and the mirrors lower slightly when I put it in reverse, to help see where the tires are going. It's absurdly unnecessary technology.

And you know what?

I love it.

I don't care if the mirrors cost me more to replace if I bust them on the trail one day. I don't care if crybabies on the internet think it's a mall crawler. I can afford it, I wanted it, and I freakin' love it. Can't take the money with me when I'm gone, and I work hard so I can enjoy it now... and I enjoy the heck out of ridiculous tech features like that. Do I need them? Of course not. I don't need an off-road vehicle at all. I bought it because it makes me happy, and the tech makes me happy. And here's a little spoiler: some of the tech is really useful too. The sensors and gizmos and gadgets that prevent crashes will keep my loved ones safer.... AND I will get to wheel it on the weekend or take an extended camping trip far off the grid. I get the best of all the worlds.



All you people filled with rage/hate need to find something that makes you happy too.

The point I think you are missing is that LR already had vehicles for someone like yourself- you want a little more capability, but like that LR luxury- get the D5! You want more of that luxury and exclusivity you've worked so hard to afford, but still capable enough to run around on some snowy backroads from time to time- get a Range Rover!

They didn't need to take the next evolution of the D5 and put a Defender name on it. If they wanted to capture new customers and not just continue to cannibalize their own established customer base they should have done something different with the Defender.

The more I've thought about this, I think if LR would have called the current "Defender" a "Discovery" (6th generation) instead- and then released a Grenadier-style Defender they'd probably be getting rave reviews and tons of great press the way the Bronco is for staying true to their heritage- they still could have even charged more for them because of the LR name.

 

[Carson G]

The point I think you are missing is that LR already had vehicles for someone like yourself- you want a little more capability, but like that LR luxury- get the D5! You want more of that luxury and exclusivity you've worked so hard to afford, but still capable enough to run around on some snowy backroads from time to time- get a Range Rover!

They didn't need to take the next evolution of the D5 and put a Defender name on it. If they wanted to capture new customers and not just continue to cannibalize their own established customer base they should have done something different with the Defender.

The more I've thought about this, I think if LR would have called the current "Defender" a "Discovery" (6th generation) instead- and then released a Grenadier-style Defender they'd probably be getting rave reviews and tons of great press the way the Bronco is for staying true to their heritage- they still could have even charged more for them because of the LR name.

If you go back to the original solid axle LR’s they were all pretty similar just like today. They all shared the same basic driveline, chassis, suspension, and the Discovery and Range Rover had very similar body structures. The Defender was always a more basic but beefed up Discovery just like it is today. Compared to a D5 the new Defender isn’t that luxurious. In fact the base model new Defender is no where near as luxurious as my base model 2006 Discovery 3. Having been in a new Defender SE it’s only slightly more luxurious than a Wrangler rubicon with leather. The base model Defender is pretty close to the Wrangler luxury wise. The biggest difference is seating position and ride quality. If you’ve never driven a newer LR you have no idea how good they actually drive it’s mind blowing IMO.

 

[JackW]

I had to run to Home Depot today to pick up an 80" interior door for a project I'm doing in my basement. As I rolled it out to the Discovery 5



I thought how am I going to fit an 80" door into a 77" load space? By running the passenger seat forward and tilting the seat back forward I was able to stuff it in and close the rear hatch.

I won't be able to do that in the new 110!

 

[Christian P.]

I just picked up my Defender, and the mirrors lower slightly when I put it in reverse, to help see where the tires are going. It's absurdly unnecessary technology.

And you know what?

I love it.

I don't care if the mirrors cost me more to replace if I bust them on the trail one day. I don't care if crybabies on the internet think it's a mall crawler. I can afford it, I wanted it, and I freakin' love it. Can't take the money with me when I'm gone, and I work hard so I can enjoy it now... and I enjoy the heck out of ridiculous tech features like that. Do I need them? Of course not. I don't need an off-road vehicle at all. I bought it because it makes me happy, and the tech makes me happy. And here's a little spoiler: some of the tech is really useful too. The sensors and gizmos and gadgets that prevent crashes will keep my loved ones safer.... AND I will get to wheel it on the weekend or take an extended camping trip far off the grid. I get the best of all the worlds.

All you people filled with rage/hate need to find something that makes you happy too.

I agree. Just fyi, my 2003 BMX X5 has the same features (mirrors). I love it.

 

[JeepColorado]

The Blue body/Black Roof with a black interior is absolutely incredible- by far the best color combo I've seen on a Defender, but I can't help but think that the "obstacle" course in this video is kind of what I'd imagine would be designed by someone who has heard of what it's like to take a vehicle off-road, but has never actually done it.

 

[roving1]

The Blue body/Black Roof with a black interior is absolutely incredible- by far the best color combo I've seen on a Defender, but I can't help but think that the "obstacle" course in this video is kind of what I'd imagine would be designed by someone who has heard of what it's like to take a vehicle off-road, but has never actually done it.

The least suitable vehicle I own for that course is a Sentra SER Spec V. I would give it a 98% chance of doing that course unharmed including the water wading lol.

 

[garrycol]

The more I've thought about this, I think if LR would have called the current "Defender" a "Discovery" (6th generation) instead- and then released a Grenadier-style Defender they'd probably be getting rave reviews and tons of great press

The Bronco might sell OK in the US but not anywhere else in the world - US vehicles have poor reputation for quality, are expensive and parts are expensive. As far as LR making a Grenadier style vehicle - well until it was announced that the old style Defender was to be stopped virtually none were being sold and were a dismal failure sales wise - they were a dinosaur and the public knew at and stayed away in their droves - the new vehicle is the way ahead, their only mistake is procing it up with the D5 rather than below it where it should be - sales will be limited because of price.

US vehicles do not sell well outside of the US because they are considered to be crap vehicles quality wise.

 

[TexasTJ]

Haha yes same could be said of British car too.

 

[JeepColorado]

The Bronco might sell OK in the US but not anywhere else in the world - US vehicles have poor reputation for quality, are expensive and parts are expensive. As far as LR making a Grenadier style vehicle - well until it was announced that the old style Defender was to be stopped virtually none were being sold and were a dismal failure sales wise - they were a dinosaur and the public knew at and stayed away in their droves - the new vehicle is the way ahead, their only mistake is procing it up with the D5 rather than below it where it should be - sales will be limited because of price.

US vehicles do not sell well outside of the US because they are considered to be crap vehicles quality wise.

Crap vehicles? ...have you ever googled the phrase "Land Rover Reliability"? ....putting it nicely they are arguably the worst manufacturer in the world for the last 2 decades or so according to basically everyone who researches this sort of thing.

 

[Corgi_express]

the "obstacle" course in this video is kind of what I'd imagine would be designed by someone who has heard of what it's like to take a vehicle off-road, but has never actually done it.

This sort of condescending know-it-all comment shows that you are just clueless.

The course was very clearly designed as a way to demonstrate specific aspects of Land Rover's vehicles to people who have not driven off road. It's basically the exact same kind of course Jeep runs at auto shows - designed to be very safe for novices to drive on, while giving an instructor a chance to teach about things like traction control in the section where the wheels lift, or hill descent control in the section where there's a hill.

Your complaint is like going into a high school physics class, and then showing how smart you are by noting that the word problem written in the book does not reflect what it's like to run a nuclear reactor in real life. Of course it isn't - that is clearly not the point, and it is obvious to anyone who isn't just digging for any possible chance to be critical.

 

[DieselRanger]

The Blue body/Black Roof with a black interior is absolutely incredible- by far the best color combo I've seen on a Defender, but I can't help but think that the "obstacle" course in this video is kind of what I'd imagine would be designed by someone who has heard of what it's like to take a vehicle off-road, but has never actually done it.

These are test courses that are made to be repeatable every time in exactly the same way and are designed to test and tune things like suspension, steering, throttle response, braking, shift points, etc. That they do double-duty as Land Rover experience centers for introductory off-road driving simply helps pay for maintenance and upkeep. These are the familiarization courses you go on before they put you on the real course. Testers need repeatability for initial tuning that you can't get on mud, rocks, etc that move and erode and change week to week.

What they will do is do an initial tune on these kinds of courses, then they'll go do something "real" with expert test drivers who will take notes for the engineers, the engineers will make changes, run them on the test course to validate changes, and hand back to the field testers. Jeep has them too.

Lots of other Land Rover experience centre videos of "real" off-road driving (they are maintained courses, but they're in actual mud, over rocks, etc).

 

[TexasTJ]

 

[soflorovers]

View attachment 601076
18’s and 35’s on a P400.

Bumping this further down the thread because not enough people have acknowledged what has been done here. For everyone who was complaining that it was impossible to fit an 18" wheel on a Defender P400, here you go. For everyone else who stated there wasn't enough sidewall (even when running a 33" tire on a 20" wheel), here you go.

I'm convinced now, more than ever, that the New Defender is hated simply because the front end isn't as strong as it could have been. I'll happily concede that aesthetically it isn't the best looking JLR product made, but I find it very difficult to judge the new Defender purely on aesthetics when it's clearly a very capable vehicle from factory. While the New Defender will never have an aftermarket the size of the JL Wrangler or New Bronco, the new D110 is already receiving plenty aftermarket modifications from both NA and the Middle East. It's only a matter of time before someone does some extreme trimming and stuffs a 37" in there. I'm quite curious to see how the CVs handle this sort of abuse.

 

[TexasTJ]

Bumping this further down the thread because not enough people have acknowledged what has been done here. For everyone who was complaining that it was impossible to fit an 18" wheel on a Defender P400, here you go. For everyone else who stated there wasn't enough sidewall (even when running a 33" tire on a 20" wheel), here you go.

I'm convinced now, more than ever, that the New Defender is hated simply because the front end isn't as strong as it could have been. I'll happily concede that aesthetically it isn't the best looking JLR product made, but I find it very difficult to judge the new Defender purely on aesthetics when it's clearly a very capable vehicle from factory. While the New Defender will never have an aftermarket the size of the JL Wrangler or New Bronco, the new D110 is already receiving plenty aftermarket modifications from both NA and the Middle East. It's only a matter of time before someone does some extreme trimming and stuffs a 37" in there. I'm quite curious to see how the CVs handle this sort of abuse.

This is 100% right. No matter how Hot the body is, sometimes you just can’t get past the face.

 

[DieselRanger]

Bumping this further down the thread because not enough people have acknowledged what has been done here. For everyone who was complaining that it was impossible to fit an 18" wheel on a Defender P400, here you go. For everyone else who stated there wasn't enough sidewall (even when running a 33" tire on a 20" wheel), here you go.

I'm convinced now, more than ever, that the New Defender is hated simply because the front end isn't as strong as it could have been. I'll happily concede that aesthetically it isn't the best looking JLR product made, but I find it very difficult to judge the new Defender purely on aesthetics when it's clearly a very capable vehicle from factory. While the New Defender will never have an aftermarket the size of the JL Wrangler or New Bronco, the new D110 is already receiving plenty aftermarket modifications from both NA and the Middle East. It's only a matter of time before someone does some extreme trimming and stuffs a 37" in there. I'm quite curious to see how the CVs handle this sort of abuse.

I also would like to point out that the guys who ran the original Camel Trophy events never complained about wheel/tire diameter.