New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

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Carson G

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Post-covid and the exodus from urban areas, with a new emphasis on getting outdoors and with the recent competition from Ford and Ineos that highlights how 'root's matter, I predict Land Rover will attempt to move back to its roots with the new CEO. Land Rover cannot survive as a furniture manufacturer.

Not sure what they do with Jaguar.
I have a feeling they will.
 

T-Willy

Well-known member
Two people. 300#
Water, 4000ml. 4
MSR Waterworks. 1
Cooler w/ice. 50
spare parts. 50
stove, pot, spork. 0.1
denatured alcohol 1

personal gear, 2 tents, 2 pads, 2 bags, 2 packs, food, snacks, spork, 1st aid, clothes and toiletries
70

38g fuel 228
highlift winch kit 100
tire claws 10
tire patch kit 5
Glock23 10
shovel and axe 10
chainsaw, tools 50
zebra's head 50
two kayaks 100

I'm at 1039.1# with a Ford Super Duty. Room left for a 2000# camper easy.

1400# is cake to hit.
Sure. Then add one person and a week's worth of water (welcome to remote desert camping) and your $45,000 brand-new Bronco's running rough roads at or over capacity.

No thanks. Better to stay well below payload.
 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
Speaking purely about the transfer case, rear locker and configurable off-road settings I'd tend to agree with you. It has 2 strikes against it that to me push it back into that soft-roader category. 1) it's resistance to aftermarket support which is absolutely integral to me as part of the sport/lifestyle we enjoy
2) the Cheap chintzy BS fakery that shows up in the Defender...I.E. the floating pillar that's so hideous it's one of the first things the aftermarket is finding ways to get rid of or the fake diamond plate stickers on the hood and front bumper. It's like there was someone at LR who sat around and was thinking about ways to help people be better posers
Have you been tracking what Lucky8 has done? Lift, 33" 12.5 MTs, sliders, and they've hinted they're working on a front bumper, and they have already got something going for the rear bumper. They have an A-bar for the Disco and I suspect a metal A-bar will not be far behind with the Defender. Behind the floating panel is a structural member so it wouldn't be a window or anything else anyway - still, I suspect the 110 will get a floating pillar delete like the 90 will have at introduction. As for other accessories - so what if Land Rover is offering a WARN winch, racks, lights, etc? Are they not allowed to try to compete with the aftermarket?

The "fake diamond plate" on the hood aren't actually stickers if you get up close on them. The ones on the hood are inset coated panels, they look to be plasti-dipped like truck bed treatments but with a texture on the top. The ones on the corners are like a wrap - most people would put stone protecting clear bras/wraps on these areas anyway, so now they are thick rubberized wrap panels that are textured, replaceable, won't rust, and protect the paint better than steel plates riveted into the body would, and don't introduce holes into the skin of the vehicle for water and fine sand/debris to work its way in.
 

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85_Ranger4x4

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Sure. Then add one person and a week's worth of water (welcome to remote desert camping) and your $45,000 brand-new Bronco's running rough roads at or over capacity.

No thanks. Better to stay well below payload.
To be fair the kayaks and chainsaw could probably stay home if one is traveling thru the desert...
 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
Don't know if anyone has posted this yet, but here's a paper comparison between the Defender and the Bronco on geometry. Note the Defender ride height is in "minimum off road height," in Off Road 1 height, not OR 2, Extended or Super Extended, though in Extended/SE modes droop is severely limited. I'll also add, these numbers are for a Defender on 32" tires.

Defender 110:
1594851318885.png

D90:
1594851416824.png

Bronco Badlands: ("the most capable Bronco" assuming you get the Sasquatch package with 35" tires). For 'Muricans not versed in European Socialist metric measurements, but instead think in Freedom Units, 875mm is 34.44 Freedom Notches. Why Ford used Socialism Units instead of Freedom Units is beyond me.
1594851524974.png

And just for shits n grins, here are the Discovery 5 numbers: Note, they reversed the numbers on the wading depth - my manual says 35.4 for EAS, and the Ramp Angle is actually 25.3 degrees, not 2.5. Discovery stock tires are 31".
1594851691325.png
 

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JeepColorado

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Exterior Dimensions And Off-Road Capability

Ford Bronco Two-DoorJeep WranglerLand Rover Defender 90
Length, inches (millimeters)173.7 (4,412)166.8 (4,237)180.4 (4,582)
Width, in (mm)75.9–79.3 (1,928–2,014)73.8 (1,875)78.6 (1,996)
Height, in (mm)71.9–75.2 (1,826–1,910)73.6 (1,868)77.5 (1,969)
Wheelbase, in (mm)100.4 (2,550)96.8 (2,460)101.9 (2,588)
Track F/R, in (mm)65.0–66.9 (1,651–1,699) / 65.0–66.9 (1,651–1,699)62.9 (1,598) / 62.9 (1,598)67.2 (1,707) / 67.0 (1,702)
Maximum approach / breakover / departure angle43.2 / 29.0 / 37.244.0 / 27.8 / 37.038.0 / 31.0 / 40.0
Maximum ground clearance, in (mm)11.6 (295)10.8 (274)11.5 (292)
Wading depth, in (mm)33.5 (851)30.0 (762)35.4 (899)
Curb weight, pounds (kilograms)N/A3,919 (1,778)–4,222 (1,915)4,830 (2,191)

Ford Bronco Four-DoorJeep Wrangler UnlimitedLand Rover Defender 110
Length, inches (millimeters)189.4 (4,811)188.4 (4,785)197.6 (5,019)
Width, in (mm)75.9–79.3 (1,928–2,014)73.8 (1,875)78.6 (1,996)
Height, in (mm)72.9–75.3 (1,852–1,913)73.6 (1,868.4)77.4 (1,966)
Wheelbase, in (mm)116.1 (2,949)118.4 (3,008)119.0 (3,023)
Track F/R, in (mm)65.0–66.9 (1,651–1,699) / 65.0–66.9 (1,651–1,699)62.9 (1,598) / 62.9 (1,598)67.1 (1,704) / 66.9 (1,699)
Maximum approach / breakover / departure angle43.2 / 26.3 / 37.043.9 / 22.6 / 37.038.0 / 28.0 / 40.0
Maximum ground clearance, in (mm)11.5 (292)10.8 (274)11.5 (292)
Wading depth, in (mm)33.5 (851)30.0 (762)35.4 (899)
Curb weight, pounds (kilograms)N/A4,167 (1,890)–4,862 (2,205)4,815 (2,184)–5,165 (2,343)
 

JeepColorado

Well-known member
Standard Engines
Ford Bronco 2.3-liter I-4Jeep Wrangler 3.6-liter V6Land Rover Defender 2.0-liter I-4
EngineTurbocharged DOHC 2.3-liter direct-injected inline-fourDOHC 3.6-liter direct-injected V6Turbocharged DOHC 2.0-liter direct-injected inline-four
Power, horsepower (kilowatts)270 (201), est.285 (213)296 (221)
Torque, pound-feet (newton-meters)310 (420), est.260 (353)295 (400)
Fuel economy, miles per gallon city / highway / combinedTBD17–19 / 22–25 / 19–2017–18 / 20–21 / 18–19
Maximum towing capacity, pounds3,5003,5008,201
Optional Engines
Ford Bronco 2.7-liter V6Jeep Wrangler mild-hybrid 2.0-liter I-4Jeep Wrangler turbodiesel 3.0-liter V6Land Rover Defender mild-hybrid 3.0-liter V6
EngineTwin-turbocharged DOHC 2.7-liter direct-injected V6Turbocharged DOHC 2.0-liter inline-four with 48V mild-hybrid assistTurbocharged DOHC 3.0-liter diesel V6Turbocharged DOHC 3.0-liter V6 with 48V mild-hybrid assist
Power, horsepower (kilowatts)310 (231) 270 (200)260 (194)395
Torque, pound-feet (newton-meters)400 (542)295 (400)442 (600)406
Fuel economy, miles per gallon city / highway / combinedTBD21–22 / 22–24 / 21–2322 / 29 / 2517 / 22 / 19
Maximum towing capacity, pounds3,5003,5003,5008,201
 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
Standard Engines
Ford Bronco 2.3-liter I-4Jeep Wrangler 3.6-liter V6Land Rover Defender 2.0-liter I-4
EngineTurbocharged DOHC 2.3-liter direct-injected inline-fourDOHC 3.6-liter direct-injected V6Turbocharged DOHC 2.0-liter direct-injected inline-four
Power, horsepower (kilowatts)270 (201), est.285 (213)296 (221)
Torque, pound-feet (newton-meters)310 (420), est.260 (353)295 (400)
Fuel economy, miles per gallon city / highway / combinedTBD17–19 / 22–25 / 19–2017–18 / 20–21 / 18–19
Maximum towing capacity, pounds3,5003,5008,201
Optional Engines
Ford Bronco 2.7-liter V6Jeep Wrangler mild-hybrid 2.0-liter I-4Jeep Wrangler turbodiesel 3.0-liter V6Land Rover Defender mild-hybrid 3.0-liter V6
EngineTwin-turbocharged DOHC 2.7-liter direct-injected V6Turbocharged DOHC 2.0-liter inline-four with 48V mild-hybrid assistTurbocharged DOHC 3.0-liter diesel V6Turbocharged DOHC 3.0-liter V6 with 48V mild-hybrid assist
Power, horsepower (kilowatts)310 (231)270 (200)260 (194)395
Torque, pound-feet (newton-meters)400 (542)295 (400)442 (600)406
Fuel economy, miles per gallon city / highway / combinedTBD21–22 / 22–24 / 21–2322 / 29 / 2517 / 22 / 19
Maximum towing capacity, pounds3,5003,5003,5008,201
Numbers for the Defender's "maximum" ground clearance are incorrect - they don't account for Extended or Super Extended mode, only OR2. Extended Mode can only be accessed upon grounding or wading, and then Super Extended mode is user-controlled above that.
 

T-Willy

Well-known member
Good comparative info above.

And:

Cargo Volume
Bronco 4 door: 77.6 sq ft
JLUR: 72.4 sq ft
Defender 110: 78.8 sq ft

Payload
Bronco 4 door: 1370 lbs.
JLUR: 892 Lbs.
Defender 110: 1980 lbs.

I was surprised--no, I wasn't surprised--to see that the Expedition Portal review of the new Bronco today made no mention of its payload or cargo capacities, but it seems more focused on the four wheel drive systems.

It will be nice to compare range when those numbers are available for Bronco.
 
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JeepColorado

Well-known member
Numbers for the Defender's "maximum" ground clearance are incorrect - they don't account for Extended or Super Extended mode, only OR2. Extended Mode can only be accessed upon grounding or wading, and then Super Extended mode is user-controlled above that.

It's interesting that LR doesn't advertise or even publish these numbers above the 11.5" ground clearance. The Defender brochure says 11.5" Maximum ground clearance and when you read about the electronic suspension it mentions that the extended mode is automatic if the vehicle is grounded then says that it can be extended further manually through the controls, but it doesn't give the increase above 11.5 for either extended mode or the manually controlled super-extended mode.
 

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dreadlocks

Well-known member
I could see both a 3L Defender 110 and a 2.3L Bronco 2dr 7MT in my fleet down the road.. Defender for me, Bronco for my Wife.. I need space/payload, towing, power, and comfort for the long hauls.. She wants a fuel efficient wheeler that she can use around the city regardless the weather that we can day-trip in w/out kiddos.. I only want V6 or bigger, she only wants 4cyl turbos.. we both want manuals but for the long hauls I do appreciate a solid auto.

We could take either or both out here in Colorado, but only the Defender would leave Colorado.. Wife wont ride ATV's and Dirt Bikes w/me and my boys so putting her behind the wheel of a non expo'd out bronco would do the trick.
 
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