New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[Corgi_express]

I responded to the initial post expressing hate towards Bill Burke. I’m not a hater, just agreeing with what Bill said. If you’ve ever met Bill, you know that he loves LR, and the criticism of him isn’t fair.

His commentary was intellectually dishonest. He criticized both the wheel size and the lack of a rear locker - both of which can be addressed with configurations available direct from the factory.

This challenge is open to anyone, including dealerships, LR corporate, master 4wheelers who can tackle any obstacle with 31” tires on 20” rims. ?.

And you are guilty of the same thing here - acting like a 20 inch rim is the off road spec. It’s not. You lied about the ground clearance too.

but the best part is, even with your dishonest trolling... the new Defender and other stock land rovers HAVE ALREADY DONE many of these obstacles ON 20s with street tires.

 

[JeepColorado]

Jeep has moved up to #11 in initial quality--- above the industry average and 21 spots in front of LR.

LR maintained it's spot from last year as 2nd worst; at least they are consistent.

 

[Carson G]

Jeep has moved up to #11 in initial quality--- above the industry average and 21 spots in front of LR.

LR maintained it's spot from last year as 2nd worst; at least they are consistent.

I’d be kinda concerned if I was a Toyota fan if that report is true.

 

[Todd n Natalie]

I’d be kinda concerned if I was a Toyota fan if that report is true.

Oh yeah, wow! I wonder if there are particular models dragging them down or is it an across the board drop for them?

 

[JeepColorado]

2020 Initial Quality Study (IQS)

TROY, Mich.: 24 June 2020 — The J.D. Power 2020 Initial Quality Study (IQS),SM released today, takes an updated look at the problems owners are having with their new vehicles, including those related to new technologies. The iconic study, redesigned this year, measures components that fail and...

www.jdpower.com

 

[Christian P.]

@Christian P. Yeah, recommend moving all of @CanyoneroJL 's posts to New Defender Rage/Hate Thread.

I am merging this whole thread with it.

 

[DieselRanger]

Jeep has moved up to #11 in initial quality--- above the industry average and 21 spots in front of LR.

LR maintained it's spot from last year as 2nd worst; at least they are consistent.

Interestingly the Jaguar E-Pace got first in its class.

Porsche is also poorly ranked, despite the fact that its generally considered one of the best in 3 year dependability...

If you read the JD Power site, it once again highlights that infotainment and user interfaces are the number one complaints, and that luxury automakers generally have more complex features which buyers find hard to operate, and these complaints ("why does my VCR clock always blink 12:00") get lumped in with "something broke."

A great comparison is Acura vs Honda...same badge engineered vehicles, but with different interior trim and sheet metal. Yet somehow Acura always ranks far below Honda with more problem reports.

Short of a model by model comparison with detailed descriptions of common problems, this ranking in the way JD Power compiles it is pretty meaningless. Unfortunately that info is now behind a significant paywall.

 

[Buliwyf]

I've noticed that chart has a 50 point swing in quality, every time a new one comes out. 50 point error seems like alot. The fact the GM zipped way up the chart again, with none, absolutely zero, changes in quality control, is a bit suspicious.

That's what you get when you trust a porn star to make quality surveys.

 

[JeepColorado]

Interestingly the Jaguar E-Pace got first in its class.

Porsche is also poorly ranked, despite the fact that its generally considered one of the best in 3 year dependability...

If you read the JD Power site, it once again highlights that infotainment and user interfaces are the number one complaints, and that luxury automakers generally have more complex features which buyers find hard to operate, and these complaints ("why does my VCR clock always blink 12:00") get lumped in with "something broke."

A great comparison is Acura vs Honda...same badge engineered vehicles, but with different interior trim and sheet metal. Yet somehow Acura always ranks far below Honda with more problem reports.

Short of a model by model comparison with detailed descriptions of common problems, this ranking in the way JD Power compiles it is pretty meaningless. Unfortunately that info is now behind a significant paywall.

So exactly what luxury features do you think LR offers that you can't get in a Jeep that are creating this massive gap? LR has air suspension,..not terribly complex to understand and available on the Grand Cherokee.

If there truly are a lot of complex features on the LR offerings then doesn't that say something about how they've failed to engineer simple solutions or at the very least say something about how terrible their handoff is at dealerships?

A couple of minutes with my Rubi clicking through the UConnect system and there wasn't much left to understand- simple, effective, easy- the way something designed for adventure travel should be would you agree?

 

[Victory_Overland]

Posts are too consistent with other Trolls on the site to and a "new Member" with the same amount of valid knowledge; coincidence......I think not.

Bone stock Jeep, not lifted Rubicon doesn't make any of those trails either then if you believe your clearance specs and out of the box configuration are the limiting factor and are correct; Jeep is far worse break-over angle than stock Defender in NORMAL mode so if the Defender can't, the Jeep surely CANT. Might want to fact check your Jeep specs that are certified from the Jeep Official site.

And again, really a viable call-out......"hey take your stock Defender to a black diamond trail where only highly modified rigs generally go and see what it's got!".....lol. FYI, I'll be in my highly modified Jeep and I'll follow you so we can compare! I mean I know it can cover 90% of Moab guys, but I want to pick a few spots to trash talk on it cuz it might have issues with Poison Spider and troll on it.......!"

Don't get sucked into this crap fellas...............FACTS MATTER!

Kid in the back of the Rangie............"Watch this; hold my Juicebox!"

F-It...I'll take that bet! I'll take the mulligan on Poison Spider in my bone stock LR3 with KM2 and the next 1500 miles will be in overlanding comparison with long durations and camping out of the vehicle for 7-10 days. You get your 5-10% satisfaction on the 5-10% of the scenarios that the Defender is "NOT" built for in any aspect (neither is a STOCK Jeep), and then we will do the other 90-95% of the categories and trails, and adventures that the OVERLAND Community and not the ROCK-CRAWLER Community is evaluating the Defender on.

Let's let the Overland Community pick the routes and the trails and the scenarios; bring what you sling Amigo.....I'm in!

What a joke............!

 

[35xj]

I very well could be misinformed. I’m not a LR hater, however, I absolutely love the old Defenders. Went to Tanzania last year and saw noting but old LRs on our safaris. Meet me in Moab, the last Monday in October, and we’ll drive Poison Spyder or Top of the world. Your choice. If you can drive your unmodified defender up any one if these trails, without getting stuck, I will purchase a defender in 2021. I’ll be in the market for a new 4x4 by then. I assume you may be a LR dealer.

 

[35xj]

I very well could be misinformed. I’m not a LR hater, however, I absolutely love the old Defenders. Went to Tanzania last year and saw noting but old LRs on our safaris. Meet me in Moab, the last Monday in October, and we’ll drive Poison Spyder or Top of the world. Your choice. If you can drive your unmodified defender up any one if these trails, without getting stuck, I will purchase a defender in 2021. I’ll be in the market for a new 4x4 by then. I assume you may be a LR dealer.

I am not a dealer. I’m a guy who owns a 95 NAS 90 and 95 130 defender. Both great trucks for what they are. They Are incredibly charming, and tough. And thoroughly outdated in every way. The new defender is pretty incredible.
The bashing of the new defender by people who know virtually nothing about it, haven’t driven it, and quite often haven’t seen it in person is tiresome.

 

[JeepColorado]

Posts are too consistent with other Trolls on the site to and a "new Member" with the same amount of valid knowledge; coincidence......I think not.

Bone stock Jeep, not lifted Rubicon doesn't make any of those trails either then if you believe your clearance specs and out of the box configuration are the limiting factor and are correct; Jeep is far worse break-over angle than stock Defender in NORMAL mode so if the Defender can't, the Jeep surely CANT. Might want to fact check your Jeep specs that are certified from the Jeep Official site.

And again, really a viable call-out......"hey take your stock Defender to a black diamond trail where only highly modified rigs generally go and see what it's got!".....lol. FYI, I'll be in my highly modified Jeep and I'll follow you so we can compare! I mean I know it can cover 90% of Moab guys, but I want to pick a few spots to trash talk on it cuz it might have issues with Poison Spider and troll on it.......!"

Don't get sucked into this crap fellas...............FACTS MATTER!

Kid in the back of the Rangie............"Watch this; hold my Juicebox!"

F-It...I'll take that bet! I'll take the mulligan on Poison Spider in my bone stock LR3 with KM2 and the next 1500 miles will be in overlanding comparison with long durations and camping out of the vehicle for 7-10 days. You get your 5-10% satisfaction on the 5-10% of the scenarios that the Defender is "NOT" built for in any aspect (neither is a STOCK Jeep), and then we will do the other 90-95% of the categories and trails, and adventures that the OVERLAND Community and not the ROCK-CRAWLER Community is evaluating the Defender on.

Let's let the Overland Community pick the routes and the trails and the scenarios; bring what you sling Amigo.....I'm in!

What a joke............!

Stock Rubicon walking all over Poison Spider, so wrong again


Isn't one of the key principles of overlanding that you keep things simple? Help me understand how LR catered to simplicity in the new Defender.

 

[TexasTJ]

@JeepColorado I think you said the the stock defender could not do it and @Victory_Overland just said if the stock defender can’t do it than the lower Jeep can’t ether.

 

[nickw]

Posts are too consistent with other Trolls on the site to and a "new Member" with the same amount of valid knowledge; coincidence......I think not.

Bone stock Jeep, not lifted Rubicon doesn't make any of those trails either then if you believe your clearance specs and out of the box configuration are the limiting factor and are correct; Jeep is far worse break-over angle than stock Defender in NORMAL mode so if the Defender can't, the Jeep surely CANT. Might want to fact check your Jeep specs that are certified from the Jeep Official site.

And again, really a viable call-out......"hey take your stock Defender to a black diamond trail where only highly modified rigs generally go and see what it's got!".....lol. FYI, I'll be in my highly modified Jeep and I'll follow you so we can compare! I mean I know it can cover 90% of Moab guys, but I want to pick a few spots to trash talk on it cuz it might have issues with Poison Spider and troll on it.......!"

Don't get sucked into this crap fellas...............FACTS MATTER!

Kid in the back of the Rangie............"Watch this; hold my Juicebox!"

F-It...I'll take that bet! I'll take the mulligan on Poison Spider in my bone stock LR3 with KM2 and the next 1500 miles will be in overlanding comparison with long durations and camping out of the vehicle for 7-10 days. You get your 5-10% satisfaction on the 5-10% of the scenarios that the Defender is "NOT" built for in any aspect (neither is a STOCK Jeep), and then we will do the other 90-95% of the categories and trails, and adventures that the OVERLAND Community and not the ROCK-CRAWLER Community is evaluating the Defender on.

Let's let the Overland Community pick the routes and the trails and the scenarios; bring what you sling Amigo.....I'm in!

What a joke............!

Well said - deal with the 5-10%, enjoy the 90-95%....