New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

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Corgi_express

Well-known member
Configuring one online is not the same as actually being available, as you noticed. Theory vs reality. The dealerships know people don't shop there for off-road vehicles anymore. No customer of their knows or cares what an electronic active differential is.
Or, you know, the dealers order expensive builds because they know they will sell, especially early when people are desperate to get their hands on them, so they are trying to maximize profits. They are going to add on all kinds of extra crap that people don't need, because they know people who are buying off the lot are going to be less picky.

The exact same thing happened with the Gladiator when it debuted.

The sales model for Land Rover leans much more heavily on built-to-order configurations than manufacturers who produce more volume, so yeah it's generally the fault of anyone who impatiently buys / tests whatever is randomly available for impulse purchase, instead of ordering a custom build.
 

dreadlocks

Well-known member
ah crap.. my bad, sorry.. I meant to say its pretty typical tho for $50-100k rock crawlers.. since the guy your paying to build it isnt gonna have one turn key ready to go.. and thats what the defender was built for right? if it cant conquer moab w/a base model then why the ******** is anyone buying em? not like you gonna go to work in something you paid over $50k to wheel in, not to mention how much those 37in mudders cost to just burn off on asphault.
 

T-Willy

Well-known member
I don't think you can say that production/assembly caused the problem yet, because we don't know why the failure occurred. All we have is some guy on the internet b*tching about one vehicle that had what sounds like a melty part, which has attracted attention that resulted in his internet b*tching going away, presumably so that LR could help address the issue directly with him. I don't think any of us know the root cause. Dude could have been looking to manufacture his own 15 minutes of fame.
The problem arose in its first 10 miles; the reasonable assumption is that it came off the delivery truck, and out of the factory, flawed.

Even despite the problem, the dealership failure, and burning his own arm fixing it, the owner was nonetheless gushing with what was admittedly contagious excitement. He is obviously an enthusiast for whom it is absurd to suggest might be "looking to manufacture his own 15 minutes of fame."
 

Carson G

Well-known member
The problem arose in its first 10 miles; the reasonable assumption is that it came off the delivery truck, and out of the factory, flawed.

Even despite the problem, the dealership failure, and burning his own arm fixing it, the owner was nonetheless gushing with what was admittedly contagious excitement. He is obviously an enthusiast for whom it is absurd to suggest might be "looking to manufacture his own 15 minutes of fame."
He could have avoided burning his arm. But yeah I agree it wasn’t over dramatized.
 

T-Willy

Well-known member
Overall, this is an impressive video and is much more promising than that video of the Defender struggling with rocks a couple of weeks ago.


However, here's one of my biggest complaints about traction control. It's still just not as competent as lockers- this driver clearly knows what he is doing, the tires are clearly aired down, so none of those excuses. Notice at minute 2:20- the front driver's wheel starts losing traction and then at 2:23 the computer finally has figured it out and has apparently sent power over to the passenger side, but it causes the vehicle to lunge forward making the drivers front tire slam into the rock in front of it.
I agree. This is the first video that I've seen that, with a proper driver, tires, and terrain, really shows Defender's off-road capability.

It did really well. As expected, it's tippier and slipperier than a fully locked rigid axle vehicle. But still very capable (would be plenty capable for my purposes).
 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
The problem arose in its first 10 miles; the reasonable assumption is that it came off the delivery truck, and out of the factory, flawed.

Even despite the problem, the dealership failure, and burning his own arm fixing it, the owner was nonetheless gushing with what was admittedly contagious excitement. He is obviously an enthusiast for whom it is absurd to suggest might be "looking to manufacture his own 15 minutes of fame."
I'll buy the enthusiast bit...don't know the guy, don't spend a lot of time on YouTube influencers so I'll retract the 15 minutes comment.

And yes, the problem likely came from the factory. What I'm saying is, it's not a product line problem until you start to see this on many vehicles. It's just a problem with *that* vehicle.

Contrast with the initial quality experienced and documented with all Tesla models - including the Model Y. To Tesla's credit, they drove hard on those grenades and appear to be doing so again.
 

Corgi_express

Well-known member
I agree. This is the first video that I've seen that, with a proper driver, tires, and terrain, really shows Defender's off-road capability.

It did really well. As expected, it's tippier and slipperier than a fully locked rigid axle vehicle. But still very capable (would be plenty capable for my purposes).
It's worth pointing out that, according to comments on the video, this Defender was still not equipped with the rear locker. I am really looking forward to seeing a new Defender on 18" steelies, good grippy tires, with a rear locker getting into some nasty stuff. Hopefully as peoples' custom builds start showing up there will be more of that sort of thing.
 

T-Willy

Well-known member
And yes, the problem likely came from the factory. What I'm saying is, it's not a product line problem until you start to see this on many vehicles. It's just a problem with *that* vehicle.
I don't think anyone has asserted that it's a widespread problem. It's too soon to know.
 

Carson G

Well-known member
It's worth pointing out that, according to comments on the video, this Defender was still not equipped with the rear locker. I am really looking forward to seeing a new Defender on 18" steelies, good grippy tires, with a rear locker getting into some nasty stuff. Hopefully as peoples' custom builds start showing up there will be more of that sort of thing.
Yeah I saw that after the fact which is pretty impressive IMO open diff. Should be really good with some proper high profile tires and the locking rear diff.
 
Another video of the Defender being used in the "exception" category for what its sole design was "not" designed for and doing pretty damn good. Remember it's bone stock with factory configured tires; not lifted or anything outside of its design and still being compared to a Jeep on rock-climbing and not the other 99% of global travel.

I did 1600 (Odometer 131,684; 08LR3) miles starting on Friday til late last night; short story Oceanside to Sacramento, to Redding, to Yosemite, to Sacramento, to Tahoe, to Mammoth Lakes, to Death Valley, to Alabama Hills and Whitney Corridor, Red Rock (the Cali one), back to Oceanside. Of those 1600 miles, (solo trip with a lady friend so route smartness was of key concern since we were planned solo vehicle, long distance and off-cell grid the vast majority), almost 500 of those miles were off-road from sand, mountain roads, firebreaks, a tad of mild rock crawling, and a ton of high and low desert unimproved roads; every stop had a off-trek excursion via overland travel to the next stop via Gaia maps. For those of us Southwestern based folks, we understand how far you can go without touching tarmac in the Sierras and Eastern Sierra Corridor and those are hard miles to make time off-pavement. For those freeway cruising miles in between, 15.3MPG on 17" KM2's in creature 08 Land Rover comfort with the cruise at 72mph/2100rpm and normal conversation tones inside the vehicle and second row seat NL 52l fridge/freezer chilling the drinks and snacks. Off-road; generally in auto shift and 3-4 gear cruising the desert trails and if low-range 2-3 gear for the occasional 1st gear on the critical steep climbs, rocks, and decent. Ran across a few kitted out LR3/4 up north; can only imagine its the NCLR crew but for the most part it was just a good crowd of all flavors all around doing overlanding; living it, not just taking a rock-crawling excursion for a few miles but actually traveling long ranges in vehicles designed to do so in a wide-variety of environments, climates, and terrain. I can cruise comfortably on the freeway at about 75mph with decent mileage and comfort and 40mph off-road on washboards no problem and then go as slow as technical terrain is needed; the point is there is far more to overlanding than rock-crawling so yeah; I'll digress on all these comparative videos.

I will say, minor setback in Tahoe with a water pump fail; but not the Genuine LR, the replacement Delco I put in long ago and didn't make it anywhere near as far as the original LR spec WP did. I keep a spare alternator and water pump stowed tightly with the fan wrench inside the back panels; are these JLR specificities related to potential overlanding breakdowns; I think not. 1.5 hour set-back (takes longer to bleed the system then change the pump) and back on the road and to the trail and to 9000' above Tahoe Ridge for some epic camping and solo spot. Sub-sea-level of for bit in Death Valley (F-its hot) and then up to 10.5k at Lone Pine Lake in the Mt. Whitney Corridor for some adventure running.

My biggest complaint as always in my LR3 is:............RANGE; it takes planning when I have to carry one or two Jerries and plan my routes so tightly around fuel and I feel the new Defender is going to be the same! I'll digress, my LR3 and the Old and New Defender are not rock-crawler designed like a Rubicon; but out of the box they are pretty close when the "NO MOD" rules are in play. For the rest of the 99% of the overland categories that the Defender and my LR3 were designed for; try and keep up! I have more money in off-grid complete sustainability in my vehicle than I do modifications for performance; tires are all that was needed and I can go to some pretty gnarly spots with a bone stock LR.

Happy trails all you RAGERS who need to see that Defender fail on the rocks and your solid axles and 37's to be off-road..........the rest of us will see it succeed in every other area.

On that note, parked next to this young kid and his lady in their Gladiator in Palmdale on the home stretch after Red Rock. We parked around the same time, exited our vehicles and the kid looked at me and said "Damn, that Rover is sweet.....can't wait to get my lift and my tires so I can go places like this and have it all dirty, my buddies won't let me go til I get all my mods done." I replied to him "thanks man, that's an awesome compliment but you don't need any of that stuff to take your lady out to many of the places we just went to and show her a great time". I gave him my paper Eastern Sierra trails map with a ton of roads he can travel with great spots to cut his teeth on that are safe if he's out alone and welcomed him to the community." His peers were making him feel he couldn't come until his Jeep was up to par and he's telling me places I know any unmodified Jeep or Subaru could drive 10/10 times. Tell me that is not the norm, making a young kid believe he needs $10k in mods to hang on the trails and it's all around; the Internet Expo Pros and haters telling people all this profound knowledge and backing it up with absolutely no substance. Gave him my card and told him about the portal so hopefully he's logging on and getting some good info from other great members that can be backed up with facts and relevance and not emotional projection over vehicle names.

Which one is overlanding all about................??????????
 
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soflorovers

Well-known member
There’s a company in the UK that makes front and rear LSD’s for the RRS that will more than likely work in the Defender. That in combination with traction control should be adequate for most things. Maybe if there’s enough demand ARB will come up with some air lockers for it.
I'd be absolutely shocked if they don't come up with an air locker. That said, we got lucky with their LR3 offerings because they are identical to the ROW Ford Ranger of the same era (If my memory serves me correct).
 

soflorovers

Well-known member
I agree. This is the first video that I've seen that, with a proper driver, tires, and terrain, really shows Defender's off-road capability.

It did really well. As expected, it's tippier and slipperier than a fully locked rigid axle vehicle. But still very capable (would be plenty capable for my purposes).
This is a fair take. I'd love to see what an SYA kit does for one of these Defenders. An SYA kit would decrease the extent to which the struts need to inflate to achieve the same lift, and thus improving the amount of flex/suspension compliance. As much as I love Land Rover's air suspension, it's far from an idiot-proof system. Running your bags at full lift height (extended mode) basically makes the truck so rigid that it's constantly bouncing and struggling for grip over obstacles. It's also a great way to absolutely destroy a CV as the vehicle begins to hop as it struggles for grip...as me how I know 🙃
 
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