New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

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DieselRanger

Well-known member
Indeed,and also in the broken bones and internal injuries department...



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..And that's only if the frame welds hold together. https://moparinsiders.com/nhtsa-opens-investigation-on-wrangler-jls-questionable-welds/

I love Jeep's statement in response to the 2019 Euro NCAP's one-star rating: "...the Jeep Wrangler is engineered to deliver superior performance and unique driving experiences under the most demanding conditions. Testing protocols that apply exclusively to urban scenarios may not align with such a vehicle." In other words, "Sorry, not sorry - the testing is irrelevant and an annoyance. Therefore, we aimed for the lowest possible bar to meet and we successfully achieved it with zero wasted effort." C's get degrees, as it were.
 

naks

Well-known member
Yet you don't appreciate that the JL, and others, are far safer than an old Defender, while still being honest successors. It's possible to achieve modernity, simplicity, and relative safety, without completely abandoning everything but a name.
'Far safer' is probably a tad simplistic and optimistic IMHO.

So in a Defender you die, while in a Wrangler you lose a limb or two.

Thanks, but I would far prefer to walk away with no or minimal injuries.

In this part of the world, big animals on roads is fairly common - the other day one side of the National highway just outside Cape Town was closed because of a wandering herd of cows. In the rural areas, well, just Google 'kudu accidents'...

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EricTyrrell

Expo God
"...the Jeep Wrangler is engineered to deliver superior performance and unique driving experiences under the most demanding conditions. Testing protocols that apply exclusively to urban scenarios may not align with such a vehicle."
You must understand that every product is a compromise on a spectrum of intended use. Compromise in one area allows strength in another. Do you not see the folly in expecting a vehicle to excel in all facets? Expecting a Wrangler to perform well in these tests is like expecting a Civic to perform well on the Ike gauntlet.
 

EricTyrrell

Expo God
'Far safer' is probably a tad simplistic and optimistic IMHO.

So in a Defender you die, while in a Wrangler you lose a limb or two.

Thanks, but I would far prefer to walk away with no or minimal injuries.

In this part of the world, big animals on roads is fairly common - the other day one side of the National highway just outside Cape Town was closed because of a wandering herd of cows. In the rural areas, well, just Google 'kudu accidents'...

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Compare the safety features and energy absorption engineering. Night and day. It's not a Volvo, but a Volvo isn't an off-roader. Again, Toyota added several safety features to the 70 series, achieving 5-star ANCAP rating, without it becoming a fashion Land Cruiser. How do you reconcile that?
 
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DorB

Adventurer
Relative to later vehicles, yes. I still maintain that the Series trucks had relatively (of the time) impressive flex and payload, however without any citable data source other than experience, I'll agree to disagree.
So that’s your method?
You post something wrong, get corrected, so you add different criteria to your previous post?
What’s next?
Limiting the comparison to only specific vehicle from a specific year model?
 

EricTyrrell

Expo God
Unfortunately you can't disconnect ability to repair and the supporting supply chain with a vehicles 'merit' as an expedition platform....
I don't know about you, but I'm five hours from a LR dealer already, and when out in the bush, no dealership has ever been of any help. If that keeps warranty concerned soccer moms from turning an INEOS into another Chelsea tractor, then so be it. We'll see what they do though.
 

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JeepColorado

Well-known member
Each of the Namibia expedition Defenders carried TWO IDENTICAL SPARES, you mook. They were on factory tires.

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I thought I had read an article that said they wore larger than factory- my bad- honestly doesn't change anything about my overall point. The Jeep is designed from the factory to accept larger tires- even figuring things like having an adjustable tire carrier- whereas the Defender isn't. The Jeep is designed with off-roading at it's core- it's primary function. Jeep designers craft the design language and the engineers build something as routine as a brake light post on a tire carrier with the primary function being off-road function. In the LR I see something else. I see the design language of compromise- of style over substance- of stick on fake diamond plating on the hood, because it should look like it's functional- it doesn't really matter that it is. That's the logic I see in the LR. We have different opinions about a vehicle- not sure why you are deriding my intelligence.
 

nickw

Adventurer
I thought I had read an article that said they wore larger than factory- my bad- honestly doesn't change anything about my overall point. The Jeep is designed from the factory to accept larger tires- even figuring things like having an adjustable tire carrier- whereas the Defender isn't. The Jeep is designed with off-roading at it's core- it's primary function. Jeep designers craft the design language and the engineers build something as routine as a brake light post on a tire carrier with the primary function being off-road function. In the LR I see something else. I see the design language of compromise- of style over substance- of stick on fake diamond plating on the hood, because it should look like it's functional- it doesn't really matter that it is. That's the logic I see in the LR. We have different opinions about a vehicle- not sure why you are deriding my intelligence.
Well you did use completely wrong info as a counter example....theres that...
 
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