New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

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nickw

Adventurer
What we see there is an example of graceful evolution in a branched product line. The 50 series was an ugly, but sensible wagon variant which included many features of the 40. From 50 to 200, it is a straightforward evolution. The 200, while much changed, is devoid of ridiculous styling gimmicks and serves the same people in the same way. Any attempt to draw comparison between this and the Defenders is a stretch of logic.
More words doesn't make what @RoyJ posted any less valid or ironic on your part..."graceful evolution in a branched product line"....LOL.

Wait till the 300 series comes out....I'll expect you to check back in with us and let us know how it has "gracefully evolved" and is still at it's core a LC....while the modern Defender will have had several years under it's belt and proven itself but is still not a true Defender.
 

EricTyrrell

Expo God
More words doesn't make what @RoyJ posted any less valid or ironic on your part..."graceful evolution in a branched product line"....LOL.

Wait till the 300 series comes out....I'll expect you to check back in with us and let us know how it has "gracefully evolved" and is still at it's core a LC....while the modern Defender will have had several years under it's belt and proven itself but is still not a true Defender.
Be specific.
Are you saying LR branched the og Defender off into another line while the original continued? That's not the case.
Are you saying the LC wagon line did not evolve incrementally? It clearly did.
There's no irony to this whataboutism when the examples are completely different.
People upset about the <insert wagon> series being different from the 40 don't understand Toyota's product map, and really just upset they can't have a new 70 series.

As for 300 series, it'll be yet another wagon that does the same things for the the same people. It's not a difficult line to produce a successor vehicle for. The successor to the 70 series HD/LD lines are what most are concerned about. So far, they seem content to update them minimally, and as necessary, to meet regulations.
 
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nickw

Adventurer
Be specific.
Are you saying LR branched the og Defender off into another line while the original continued? That's not the case.
Are you saying the LC wagon line did not evolve incrementally? It clearly did.
There's no irony to this whataboutism when the examples are completely different.
People upset about the <insert wagon> series being different from the 40 don't understand Toyota's product map, and really just upset they can't have a new 70 series.

As for 300 series, it'll be yet another wagon that does the same things for the the same people. It's not a difficult line to produce a successor vehicle for. The successor to the 70 series HD/LD lines are what most are concerned about. So far, they seem content to update them minimally, and as necessary, to meet regulations.
I think @RoyJ post nails the Irony....i.e. Toyota clearly relies on heritage to sell the 200, which you called LR out for, and has iterated the 40 to what we see today in said 200, slowly over several iterations. Modern Defender compares quite nicely with the 200 (improves upon in some areas) while both continue to use heritage naming convention, design elements while making the vehicle more livable without forgetting the offroad roots. What's not to understand?

If you don't think the 200 series is a "LandCruiser" or not worthy of the name, just come out and say it....it's the only way I can reconcile what your wandering logic is. If that's your position, fine, case closed, but you can't play both sides of the fence and say it's ok for Toyota....but not for LR.

You'll also need to explain at which point the LandCruiser quit being a LandCruiser....since the 60 series is mechanically equivalent to the 70 even though it had already 'broken' rank and went off along the 'Wagon' line.
 
110 pages and one thing is clearly solved and well proven through an overwhelming amount of useless, blind, and completely biased opinions of the Stone Aged concepts and theory w/ @EricTyrrell

Raptor was built for off-road community and to give you an answer for a few places that its being used to its capacity; try all of Southwest US and Baja Sur California. Do you have any idea at all how many of those things are being used as bone stock legit off-road Pre-Runners by legit pro and amateur race teams. Yeah, they have a cult following and some posers but maybe you should step off your soapbox and come to the desert someday.

I'm not gonna bust on Jeep or Yota cuz I am a fan of both, but if you think new Defenders are going to compete with the millions of boulevard cruisers in Jeeps, Taco's and 4Runners on IG and Twitter you're crazy brotatochip! Seriously man, you can't get out of your own way with your bulls!t.

STILL WAITING TO SEE JUST ONE PICTURE OF A VEHICLE YOU DRIVE AND TAKE OFF-ROAD AND GO AHEAD AND DATE STAMP IT SO WE KNOW ITS CURRENT.

We can take my LR3 to the desert since you don't have anything that can go where I go!...........yep, calling you out......STILL!
 
The Defender is not the 50, 60, 80, 100, 200 (Wagons) counterpart. That's the Discovery line. The correct LC branch to follow is the Heavy Duty line from 40 to 70 series. A few years ago Toyota added various safety features to achieve a 5-star ANCAP rating. That's where we're at. 70-series, G-wagen, Wrangler, Jimny, all imperfect, but solid examples of product evolution.

View attachment 584092

Grenadier has the vast BMW dealership network at its disposal for engine service. The mechanical, from what we've seen so far, are so simple and familiar that any shop or shade tree mechanic can work on one. However, if your only assistance with an engine issue is some roadside repair shack, you're SOL with any new platform.
So, how does this differ from LR and the Discovery branches and Defender being one OEM with different model codes and then getting a new Defender code?

And again, your shade tree mechanic does not do warranty repair so maybe lucky if BMW chooses to pick up the tab on warranty or pawn it off to a body control module issue and tell the Ineos owner it's not their problem. I have not seen anything saying who is covering the global warranty so your theory like the rest of your comments is pretty much useless and will most likely be debunked by facts in the next 5-10 posts.

And if you can't see it.......we can use the Discovery as a side X side comparison as well!
Screen Shot 2020-05-14 at 11.53.37 PM.png

First Year and Last Year Comparison; for your benefit I chose all three of your last year models to compare the "lineage" side by side. Funny, I just do not see anything that goes back to year one BJ, ten years in, 20 years in, 30 years in.......just can't seem to find where LC didn't change from its original Jeep look to what it is today.

Screen Shot 2020-05-14 at 11.22.40 PM.png

Land Rover Series I to last year Defender to new Year Defender! Don't see it..........nothing there; hmmmmmmm, crickets?
Looks the similar to its "roots" and "progression" throughout the years and most likely considering performance capabilities current to LR SUVs, I'm guessing it's probably more capable...........but let us know what you think when you find a way to wiggle around this one.
Screen Shot 2020-05-15 at 12.27.23 AM.png
 

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DorB

Adventurer
And LR went to trailing link and coils about 15+ years before everyone else.
No..
Unimogs had coil spring way before.
And before you jump.. 1948++ LR were agricultural/working products, including PTO

What’s your point?
How is it relevant to the new LR SUV?
 
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XJLI

Adventurer
110 pages of going around in circles, still an entertaining read with my morning coffee. Wonder if it will, at some point, like that poor tiger, turn into butter? :)
In 2028, when the Defender run is over due to the economy, this thread, giant meteors, etc; people will start grabbing them up and calling it the next great LR platform. In 2030, when theyre 10 years old and $15k, they'll be "The best deal in overlanding right now" next to the R/C cars that WORLD MOTOR CO aka the merged auto conglomerate GeneralVAGFiatBenzoFord is turning out.

Just like how the LR3 was evil, evil, EVIL but now is "the" Rover to get.
 

EricTyrrell

Expo God
No leaf truck from that era had decadent flex or supple ride.
Relative to later vehicles, yes. I still maintain that the Series trucks had relatively (of the time) impressive flex and payload, however without any citable data source other than experience, I'll agree to disagree.
 

JeepColorado

Well-known member
110 pages of going around in circles, still an entertaining read with my morning coffee. Wonder if it will, at some point, like that poor tiger, turn into butter? :)

Ha! I do think some of this is getting a little circular. On my morning walk with my dog a new reason to hate the "Defender" came to mind though- notice all of those African Safari Press Launch pictures where the larger diameter tire is on the roof rather than mounted on the back where God intended? It's because Gerry and the Fashionista's at LR didn't care enough about you having the option to utilize a larger tire for off-roading to engineer a solution. The Wrangler tire mounts on the rear just like the LR, however Jeep went ahead and engineered the brake light post to adjust from the factory in case you want to put larger tires- from the factory! No aftermarket bumper needed; no getting down a heavy tire to replace the blown one; no hoisting a potentially muddy damaged tire up on the roof to keep moving...none of that; just a a simple and clever solution to a potential inconvenience. Even the wheel wells and fender flares are designed to take a larger tire if desired- no lift required.

Yet another area where a much less expensive Wrangler outperforms and outclasses a really expensive fashion statement.
 

EricTyrrell

Expo God
Raptor was built for off-road community and to give you an answer for a few places that its being used to its capacity; try all of Southwest US and Baja Sur California.
It's a one trick pony designed for a subset of a subset of terrain

Do you have any idea at all how many of those things are being used as bone stock legit off-road Pre-Runners by legit pro and amateur race teams?
Maybe 50, so in terms of vehicle sales, none. In its intended environment, it's a purpose-fit machine. Outside of that, in the vast majority of its sales territory, and in terms of the culture it attracts, it's trash. Nearly Kahn Defender level trash.

if you think new Defenders are going to compete with the millions of boulevard cruisers in Jeeps, Taco's and 4Runners on IG and Twitter you're crazy brotatochip!
Check IG. The beginnings are already self evident.

YOLO!
 
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