New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

EricTyrrell

Expo God
The important name (as it has been for seventy years) is Land Rover. I would be perfectly happy if the new vehicle lives up to THAT name plate.
lol. It's an even greater stretch to call it an 80/86/88/90/107/109/110 successor.
 
Last edited:

EricTyrrell

Expo God
But Land Rover can't use the "Defender" nameplate on another line.
That's not how it's positioned. They're attempting to gaslight consumers by repeatedly posting pics on social media of the two next to each other. It's a forced and desperate attempt to convey lineage.
 

Recommended books for Overlanding

National Geographic Road Atlas 2021: Adventure Edition [U...
by tional Geographic Maps
From $23.44
The Longest Line on the Map: The United States, the Pan-A...
by Eric Rutkow
From $13.39
Adventure Motorcycling Handbook: A Route & Planning Guide
by Chris Scott
From $10.09
Motorcycle Messengers 2: Tales from the Road by Writers w...
by Jeremy Kroeker, Ted Simon, Lois Pryce, Billy Ward,...
From $9.99

EricTyrrell

Expo God
Checked out Jonathan Hanson's blog today and came across a few posts you JLR fangirls might enjoy..

Screen Shot 2019-09-10 at 7.37.18 AM.png

In 2011 Land Rover unveiled a concept for a new Defender called the DC100. The looks of the prototype were so universally panned that it vanished within weeks and was never seen again.
Until now.
Eight years later Land Rover has unveiled the actual new Defender. And, pardon me if I’m being myopic, but—at least in photos—I’m having a devil of a time distinguishing a revolutionary change in styling from that short-lived concept.
Screen Shot 2019-09-10 at 7.38.17 AM.png

More soon about the advertised capabilities—which are impressive—and the option packs, some of which border on eye-rolling in their pandering to millennials seeking to appear more rugged than they really are. I don’t think I could stand to tick an option box called the “Adventure Pack.”
 

Carson G

Well-known member
Checked out Jonathan Hanson's blog today and came across a few posts you JLR fangirls might enjoy..

So do you respect what this guy has to say? Because if you read some of his other comments you’d see he agrees with a lot of stuff the pro new Defender guys have been saying. In fact he matches my opinion almost exactly. https://www.google.com/amp/www.exploringoverland.com/overland-tech-travel/2019/9/11/some-positive-thoughts-on-the-new-defender?format=amp
 

EricTyrrell

Expo God
So do you respect what this guy has to say? Because if you read some of his other comments you’d see he agrees with a lot of stuff the pro new Defender guys have been saying. In fact he matches my opinion almost exactly. https://www.google.com/amp/www.exploringoverland.com/overland-tech-travel/2019/9/11/some-positive-thoughts-on-the-new-defender?format=amp
It says a lot when someone has to make an effort to say something positive about a product. It appears he's still trying to get JLR to let him drive one.

Here's another notable one, echoing much of what I've highlighted before.

The point that struck me most forcefully was the marketing approach taken by Land Rover. Ads for the original Series vehicles stressed their utility, their strength, their versatility. Not any more. This time it’s all about a pseudo-Paris-Dakar, high-performance, high-environmental-impact attitude. More than half the tracking shots of the vehicle show it at various degrees of side slip, and there’s a whole lot of sand being spewed and snow being flung. That indicates clearly where the company believes its sales lie, even if it actually tells us very little about the vehicle’s everyday utility, strength, or versatility.
 

Carson G

Well-known member
It says a lot when someone has to make an effort to say something positive about a product. It appears he's still trying to get JLR to let him drive one.

Here's another notable one, echoing much of what I've highlighted before.

Gonna be honest Camel Trophy was not low environmental impact either. I mean even Jeep is going after the high speed off road market now. Also considering Land Rover bought Bowler it’s not surprising they would go after the high speed off road market. I mean look at the Ford Raptor and Ranger Raptor they’re popular because of their high speed off road performance. In fact IIRC Land Rover had a engineer from the original Ford Raptor project on the New Defender project. Plus the kind of stuff they’re showing it doing is hard on suspension components and the frames of vehicles. Some of the jumps they’ve show the Defender doing would absolutely destroy most stock midsize and full size vehicles. A Raptor is really the only thing that competes with what they’ve done with the Defender. The difference is the Defender can fit down tighter trails and will carry a payload better.
 

35xj

Adventurer
It will be really interesting when some of you get to see and drive the new defender. I find it simply stunning the amount of preconceived ideas, determinations and “knowledge” in this thread.
True, the new defender isn’t the defender we know and love. I walk right past my collection of modern, built Toyota’s to drive my 130. It holds a pretty special place with me. As does my NAS 90.
Where JLR may have gone wrong is in continuing to build essentially the same car for so many years. Very minimal updating really happened, and very few of the incremental changes happened over the years.
The new defender is such a massive evolutionary leap, people weren’t ready for it. Had jlr made periodic evolutions to the name, I think it’s reception would be massively different
In reality. Those of you insistent upon it not being a “real” defender can buy essentially exactly what you claim to want. A new defender. HHH, arkonik, a multitude of operations will gladly supply what you want.
 

EricTyrrell

Expo God
Gonna be honest Camel Trophy was not low environmental impact either. I mean even Jeep is going after the high speed off road market now. Also considering Land Rover bought Bowler it’s not surprising they would go after the high speed off road market. I mean look at the Ford Raptor and Ranger Raptor they’re popular because of their high speed off road performance. In fact IIRC Land Rover had a engineer from the original Ford Raptor project on the New Defender project. Plus the kind of stuff they’re showing it doing is hard on suspension components and the frames of vehicles. Some of the jumps they’ve show the Defender doing would absolutely destroy most stock midsize and full size vehicles. A Raptor is really the only thing that competes with what they’ve done with the Defender. The difference is the Defender can fit down tighter trails and will carry a payload better.
I'm not concerned about the environmental impact of doing a rally car impression down a dirt road, or CT which had nearly zero impact relative to logging and mining operations they ventured past. We're not talking destroying unique ecosystems or dumping trash, inexcusable acts. I'm concerned about the irresponsible stupidity of glamorizing high speed driving in public off-road areas. Like the luxury Defender, the Raptor isn't actually targeted at an actual off-road market, it's a Range Rover for Hoonigan bro wannabes. There are few areas in the US where it's possible to actually use a Raptor as engineered, but they sell well because there's a huge market of stupid people. It's a one trick pony design for a subset of a subset of terrain, and objectively worse everywhere else. Am I surprised JLR is going after this trashy market? No, they're after edgy millennial with money to spend on lifestyle statements. It seems "As slow as possible, as fast as necessary" has been replaced with something like "Balls to the walls, YOLO!"

1589386334578.png 1589385619590.png
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
Here - this article might engender rage and hate.

"The new truck, with all of its computer-controlled components, runs the risk of being too complex, too hard to modify, and just not rugged or dependable enough to be a serious off-road machine, not to mention its high price tag and expensive parts. So, here are 15 SUVs that you could buy for less than a new Defender, and that might serve you better as serious off-road vehicles."

Back to my Rav4 and CRV comparison they are far simpler machines and likely nearly as capable and possibly have more interior space. Or not. But simple fact is the Rover will be a rare odd ball thing and yes likely impossible to get repaired anywhere other than major metro locations making it a poor Moab choice.
 

EricTyrrell

Expo God
The new defender is such a massive evolutionary leap, people weren’t ready for it. Had jlr made periodic evolutions to the name, I think it’s reception would be massively different
As I've pointed out before, it was not inevitable that had the Defender evolved at sufficient pace to stay ahead of regulations, that it would resemble the current offering. The fashion Defender is not the result of prophecy, but of the current culture at JLR, and specifically the vision of a designer who dislikes off-road driving.

Those of you insistent upon it not being a “real” defender can buy essentially exactly what you claim to want. A new defender. HHH, arkonik, a multitude of operations will gladly supply what you want.
How about a "real" modern Defender? HHH, Arkonic, offer restored and improved classics, but are far from modern products. Apples to apples, the closest modern successor (with few caveats) is an FCA product, a disappointing conclusion to LR's history of utilitarian vehicles for the working class.

It’s clear there will be no Land Rover descendant of the 130. The Defender is now an entirely different vehicle—it’s highly unlikely there will be a pickup version at all, much less a quad-cab high-capacity version. That means that whether we agree or not, the Gladiator is the successor to the 130. There is no other quad-cab pickup available in the U.S. with a separate, boxed chassis, front and rear solid axles, and all-coil suspension.
 

Recommended books for Overlanding

Into Africa
by Sam Manicom
From $25.52
Don't Go There. It's Not Safe. You'll Die.: And other mor...
by Jared McCaffree, Jessica Mans, Kobus Mans
From $19.99
Bushcraft 101: A Field Guide to the Art of Wilderness Sur...
by Dave Canterbury
From $9.99
Motorcycle Messengers 2: Tales from the Road by Writers w...
by Jeremy Kroeker, Ted Simon, Lois Pryce, Billy Ward,...
From $9.99

EricTyrrell

Expo God
You mean like this? :p



What we see there is an example of graceful evolution in a branched product line. The 50 series was an ugly, but sensible wagon variant which included many features of the 40. From 50 to 200, it is a straightforward evolution. The 200, while much changed, is devoid of ridiculous styling gimmicks and serves the same people in the same way. Any attempt to draw comparison between this and the Defenders is a stretch of logic.
 

EricTyrrell

Expo God
Reading the front page article, Tom Sheppard Reviews the Suzuki Jimny, it struck me how similar it was to how a review of an honest Defender successor should have read..

If you find the absurdity of black leather seats scaldingly hot or sticky in summer and dark-slippery-cold in winter; if the advantage of flush, pop-out door handles escapes you; if a line of 10 tiny touchscreen icons has you taking off your gloves, reaching for your spectacles, scowling in irritation while trying not to run off the road at your second attempt to hit the right one and have it register your touch; if 500 watts of ear-splitting audio is not what you’re looking for; and if a gross weight nudging 2.5 tonnes is not your target—then Suzuki’s new Jimny will bring an overdue, contented smile to replace your mounting impatience with the baubles of auto fashion.

For such is the effect of Suzuki’s breath-of-fresh-air new 4×4. It is hard not to imagine that, in their quest for a return to reality, Suzuki’s designers didn’t high-five all round to gales of laughter when the pragmatism of their functional design philosophy begat a vehicle externally akin to a 461 G-Wagen in miniature (and 1,000 kilograms or 2,200 pounds lighter). And they weren’t that far off in terms of functionality either, albeit influenced by the need to keep the cost to sensible limits.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top