New Defender News

[XJLI]

Man, I really hope the naysayers are all right. Everyone hates these and they don't sell for ********. Then I can pick one up cheap!

 

[DieselRanger]

Lots of good reviews, but, reliability, reliability, reliability: Defender is a risky remote touring investment.

For remote touring, reliability is critical. Unreliability is fatal.

Meanwhile, Land Rover remains the least reliable car brand.

Until and unless reliability is proven, it's a risky purchase.

When will it be proven? Those Defenders did eight (8) round trips of that course back to back. This was one of them. That's almost 3,000 miles of continuous off-roading in freaking Africa. None of the reviews so far in any publication report breakdowns of any kind.

 

[DieselRanger]

"Laggy In-line six, touchy brakes, non-defeatable stability control occassionally stifles off-roading"

LOL, did you even read the context of that quote? They were complaining that you can't spin the wheels in sand to throw up rooster tails and do donuts. For ********'s sake, reading comprehension much? "I can't hoon it in dirt like a Raptor so -1".

Please.

 

[gatorgrizz27]

Lots of good reviews, but, reliability, reliability, reliability: Defender is a risky remote touring investment.

For remote touring, reliability is critical. Unreliability is fatal.

Meanwhile, Land Rover remains the least reliable car brand.

Until and unless reliability is proven, it's a risky purchase.

I’d say any first year vehicle is risky to take to remote places, even based on something as simole as a fuel pump and the availability of parts.

The LR reliability discussion will never end. The older ones were typical British vehicles that were suited to tinkerers and people who didn’t mind doing maintenance. Yes, this includes the original Defender.

The D2’s/P38’s were an abomination and make the reputation deserved. In my experience, everything since has been far superior.

What most people don’t understand is that the majority of the issues Land Rovers have are electronic glitches that set warning lights, chimes, display messages, etc, and never affect driveability.

Pulling out of my driveway this morning, the LCD on the dash went dark. It then started working again. It’s done it before, and will do it again. I’m not saying it’s acceptable on newer $80k vehicles, but it’s not turning them into bricks in the middle of nowhere.

 

[JeepColorado]

It seems to me that some on here find it insulting when I compare the Defender to the Grand Cherokee- I don't mean it to be insulting. The Jeep Grand Cherokee is literally the most awarded SUV ever. It's incredibly capable off-road, has all of the interior luxury most people would ever want and drives great on the road. My wife drove one for years and we took it camping and did what I would call strenuous off-roading for what it is and I was surprised by it's capability. However, make no mistake, it's no Wrangler and it's certainly not a Rubicon. That's how I feel about the Defender- it's not meant as an insult- I just think the Defender is a very expensive version of an SUV like the Grand Cherokee.

 

[T-Willy]

I’d say any first year vehicle is risky to take to remote places, even based on something as simole as a fuel pump and the availability of parts.

The LR reliability discussion will never end. The older ones were typical British vehicles that were suited to tinkerers and people who didn’t mind doing maintenance. Yes, this includes the original Defender.

The D2’s/P38’s were an abomination and make the reputation deserved. In my experience, everything since has been far superior.

What most people don’t understand is that the majority of the issues Land Rovers have are electronic glitches that set warning lights, chimes, display messages, etc, and never affect driveability.

Pulling out of my driveway this morning, the LCD on the dash went dark. It then started working again. It’s done it before, and will do it again. I’m not saying it’s acceptable on newer $80k vehicles, but it’s not turning them into bricks in the middle of nowhere.

I tend to agree but there are some exceptions. For example, I wouldn't hesitate to drive a first-production-year Land Cruiser around the world. And at the other end of the reliability discussion, we still confidently use ours for remote touring after nearly three decades.

I really like the idea of the Defender. Its size, off road capability and payload make it a unique offering in North America--a great platform for remote touring. It beats the 200 in payload, and may even be more capable off road (I'd love to see a head to head).

But it's all for naught if Defender can't overcome Land Rover's notorious and still-industry-leading unreliability. Time will tell if it does, but the burden of proof is on Defender to prove itself an exception to the rule.

I wish some other manufacturer--any other manufacturer--had made this truck.

 

[T-Willy]

When will it be proven? Those Defenders did eight (8) round trips of that course back to back. This was one of them. That's almost 3,000 miles of continuous off-roading in freaking Africa. None of the reviews so far in any publication report breakdowns of any kind.

For me, five or so years. But that depends on one's risk tolerance; we're all different.

 

[JeepColorado]

It does look cool though- needs an ARB Front Bumper

 

[DieselRanger]

I’d say any first year vehicle is risky to take to remote places, even based on something as simole as a fuel pump and the availability of parts.

The LR reliability discussion will never end. The older ones were typical British vehicles that were suited to tinkerers and people who didn’t mind doing maintenance. Yes, this includes the original Defender.

The D2’s/P38’s were an abomination and make the reputation deserved. In my experience, everything since has been far superior.

What most people don’t understand is that the majority of the issues Land Rovers have are electronic glitches that set warning lights, chimes, display messages, etc, and never affect driveability.

Pulling out of my driveway this morning, the LCD on the dash went dark. It then started working again. It’s done it before, and will do it again. I’m not saying it’s acceptable on newer $80k vehicles, but it’s not turning them into bricks in the middle of nowhere.

Agree. I realize YMMV but my 2017 D5 Td6 has been fantastic. A couple software updates and replacing the hood release cable because it was stretching, beyond that nothing that would keep it from getting home when I go out. But still, I bought a 100,000 mile extended warranty because it was both a first-year vehicle and it is a Land Rover.

 

[nickw]

It seems to me that some on here find it insulting when I compare the Defender to the Grand Cherokee- I don't mean it to be insulting. The Jeep Grand Cherokee is literally the most awarded SUV ever. It's incredibly capable off-road, has all of the interior luxury most people would ever want and drives great on the road. My wife drove one for years and we took it camping and did what I would call strenuous off-roading for what it is and I was surprised by it's capability. However, make no mistake, it's no Wrangler and it's certainly not a Rubicon. That's how I feel about the Defender- it's not meant as an insult- I just think the Defender is a very expensive version of an SUV like the Grand Cherokee.

That's a rabbit hole you don't wanna go down as a Subaru outback is cheaper than a GC and based on what I've seen, is darn near capable and probably every bit as useful for 98% of what you do.

If you must compare, I think the IFS/IRS, air suspension, stock 32's, various engine options, etc. make it comparable to the TrailHawk V8, which is what, $50k? Another $10k you can step up to a Defender 'base' and another $20k you can get the higher spec one? I'd do that without hesitation....

 

[DieselRanger]

View attachment 575579

It does look cool though- needs an ARB Front Bumper

Replace the bugeyes with LED light bars, and add Lucky8 rock sliders and I'm in.

 

[REDROVER]

To be fair,
Yes h2 and h3 were terrible, but go on Craigslist and see how much is H3 alpha selling, 25k and up after 12 years,
Same year Range Rover that sold for 50k more when it was new, sells for 7k

Market doesn’t lie.

 

[soflorovers]

I don't think there were any on that trip, it seems from reading a few articles that it was a mix of the 3.0 six and 240 hp four cylinder diesel engines in the Namibia trucks. I am particularly interested in driving impressions of the 2.0 gas engine since I have one on order, I'm kind of thinking it might be the sweet spot in the range with enough power (especially for an old guy), significantly less complication, and about $9K cheaper than the MHEV six. Plus according to the published specs, the four cylinder cars have lower final drive gears in the differentials which may make them better for off road crawling.

Three of my four Land Rovers are four cylinders and I know the new P200 Defender will be significantly faster than any of them.

My concern with the 2.0 gas engine is that it will struggle with a larger than 33' diameter tire.

 

[soflorovers]

I’d wager it will go anywhere a stock Rubicon will. Around here, even the ones on 37’s are pavement queens, or occasionally drive down a fire road. I suppose the idea of “ability” is more important to many than the actual need for it.

An LR3 with appropriate tires will go 95% or more of the places one can without risking severe body damage or water over the hood. I have zero qualms about scratching/denting mine, or using it hard, but I’m not willing to put the door into a rock and force my way through, or hydrolock the engine.

View attachment 575525

There’s a fine line between a vehicle that you need to preserve well enough to drive home in, and a toy that can ride back on a trailer.

Funny you say that...This is the precise reason why I won't be buying a new Defender anytime soon, despite really, really, really wanting one. I can't imagine the new Defender as a direct replacement to my LR3. It's not that I don't think a new Defender is as capable as my LR3 (I'm sure it is), but because I couldn't imagine scratching, denting, or downright destroying a new D110 when my $6,000 LR3 has full armor and has already been smashed up. Perhaps one day I'll lose respect for my bank account and start smashing up a new Defender.

 

[soflorovers]

To be fair,
Yes h2 and h3 were terrible, but go on Craigslist and see how much is H3 alpha selling, 25k and up after 12 years,
Same year Range Rover that sold for 50k more when it was new, sells for 7k

Market doesn’t lie.

That's mainly due to rarity, and not because they're any good. My brother in law had an H3 and I've racked up quite a few miles in one. They squeak and rattle like nothing else. The Alpha sells for more because it was the only way to get a V8 in an H3. It's all about supply. Go look at ROW Defender values and explain the delta in value between an ROW and an NAS. The only reason NAS Defenders are worth what they're worth is due to the rarity and image.