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New Defender News

al415

Observer
It’s clickbait because the inference is that they received a second lemon.

The blue / 2nd defender may as well have been stolen, vandalized or lost in a flood.
 

T-Willy

Well-known member
I suppose I missed that inference.

Anyhow, in my opinion, the most worrisome narrative emerging from TFL's buying experience is the technical inability of JLR and its dealers. JLR's poor reliability makes its ability to fix problems (or even capably work on these trucks) all the more critical. Here, despite an "A" for effort, it took weeks to even diagnose New Defender 1, and then New Defender 2 was effectively destroyed in what should have been a relatively simple winch installation.

Edit: Said simply, JLR is incompetent.
 
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roving1

Well-known member
It’s clickbait because the inference is that they received a second lemon.

The blue / 2nd defender may as well have been stolen, vandalized or lost in a flood.
Just stop it...

If the Jiffy Lube techs they have nuked a harness while installing a factory option to the point the vehicle is inop, or honestly even maybe totaled with the cost of re-harnessing the whole vehicle, that counts. Them taking delivery of it is irrelevant while their purchased vehicle is broken and not usable and so is the clickbait angle. If they can't get this right for VIP imagine if you were just a peon. This is just as pertinent as a "factory" caused lemon issue.

I hate TFL and think they often are unabashedly click bait but this was a pretty straight forward video.
 
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DieselRanger

Well-known member
Dealer != Automaker.

Dealers are independent in the US.

If the dealer jacked up the install, that's on the dealer techs, not the automaker, but Land Rover is likely taking notes and keeping score. The first issue is a legit production quality escape. The second one is not a failure of the vehicle design or production. Winches on the New Defender are dealer installed options, they aren't factory installed.

TFL are tools, but the issues they are experiencing are real.
 

al415

Observer
So, you just explained to me that it isn’t click bait and then concluded by returning to the fact that it is clickbait? Copy.
 

roving1

Well-known member
Dealer != Automaker.

Dealers are independent in the US.

If the dealer jacked up the install, that's on the dealer techs, not the automaker, but Land Rover is likely taking notes and keeping score. The first issue is a legit production quality escape. The second one is not a failure of the vehicle design or production. Winches on the New Defender are dealer installed options, they aren't factory installed.

TFL are tools, but the issues they are experiencing are real.
LOL, I know. Who cares about this distinction? Especially with a small dealer network like Land Rover where people basically have no choice as to where they are going. It literally makes no difference to the end user. I am pretty sure Toyota dealers can install TRD parts w/o bricking vehicles but the consumer should not care because they are independent of the automaker? GTFO of here with that. :ROFLMAO:
 
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mpinco

Expedition Leader
More troubling is that factory reps couldn't resolve the first issue, recommending a new engine. Also, how does a wiring harness become non-replaceable, causing an entire new vehicle to be bricked.

Houston, we have a problem.....
 

T-Willy

Well-known member
Dealer != Automaker.

Dealers are independent in the US.

If the dealer jacked up the install, that's on the dealer techs, not the automaker, but Land Rover is likely taking notes and keeping score. The first issue is a legit production quality escape. The second one is not a failure of the vehicle design or production. Winches on the New Defender are dealer installed options, they aren't factory installed.

TFL are tools, but the issues they are experiencing are real.
This distinction is irrelevant to the consumer. If you buy a Land Rover, this is where your Land Rover gets fixed. (Or not.)
 

T-Willy

Well-known member
The clickbait is JLR's spectacular failure, and nothing more. This has become an absurd situation. The longer it goes on, the worse it gets. In a very public and very embarrassing way, JLR is affirming its reputation of poor quality, reliability and service. Read the comments on that video--of course people can't look away. TFL has been, in my opinion, quite fair and gracious.
 
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DieselRanger

Well-known member
This distinction is irrelevant to the consumer. If you buy a Land Rover, this is where your Land Rover gets fixed. (Or not.)
The dealers clearly explain that the winch is a dealer installed option and that it doesn't come from the factory when you order it. The configurator clearly states you should contact your dealer for more information on winch pricing and installation. It's listed on the window sticker as a "dealer installed option." Ignorant people can be ignorant - buyer beware, but there are lots of resources online that describe the differences. In any case, a dealer installed winch is not going to be a popular option. At least TFL have been honest about what the prolem with #2 was. And anyone reading this thread should now understand that a dealer biffing an install is not the same as the manufacturer delivering a lemon off the production line.

Absolutely the dealer is responsible for servicing the vehicle and correctly installing dealer-installed options. The factory warranty will usually cover factory-approved dealer installed options, and Land Rover NA will get that claim from the dealer. And they keep score. Good thing in the greater Denver metro there are two dealers to choose from in servicing.

As with any car company doing business in the US, buyers always have an option of reaching out to the manufacturer directly if they haven't been satisfied with their dealer experience. Every post-dealer interaction with LR gets a JLR survey (not a dealer survey). Buyers get an invitation to participate directly with JLR Customer Relationship Centre sponsored focus group, with a direct line to the CRC when they need it.

Land Rover is making a massive push to ensure buyers get a quality vehicle and stay happy with it. While dealer franchises are independent from JLR, JLR as grantor of the franchise agreement has a pretty big hammer in granting allocations, and with a no-compete clause between Colorado dealers mandated by JLR, one dealer getting more allocations over another is a powerful motivator.
 

T-Willy

Well-known member
The dealers clearly explain that the winch is a dealer installed option and that it doesn't come from the factory when you order it. The configurator clearly states you should contact your dealer for more information on winch pricing and installation. It's listed on the window sticker as a "dealer installed option." Ignorant people can be ignorant - buyer beware, but there are lots of resources online that describe the differences. In any case, a dealer installed winch is not going to be a popular option. At least TFL have been honest about what the prolem with #2 was. And anyone reading this thread should now understand that a dealer biffing an install is not the same as the manufacturer delivering a lemon off the production line.

Absolutely the dealer is responsible for servicing the vehicle and correctly installing dealer-installed options. The factory warranty will usually cover factory-approved dealer installed options, and Land Rover NA will get that claim from the dealer. And they keep score. Good thing in the greater Denver metro there are two dealers to choose from in servicing.

As with any car company doing business in the US, buyers always have an option of reaching out to the manufacturer directly if they haven't been satisfied with their dealer experience. Every post-dealer interaction with LR gets a JLR survey (not a dealer survey). Buyers get an invitation to participate directly with JLR Customer Relationship Centre sponsored focus group, with a direct line to the CRC when they need it.

Land Rover is making a massive push to ensure buyers get a quality vehicle and stay happy with it. While dealer franchises are independent from JLR, JLR as grantor of the franchise agreement has a pretty big hammer in granting allocations, and with a no-compete clause between Colorado dealers mandated by JLR, one dealer getting more allocations over another is a powerful motivator.
When a JLR dealership destroys a new Defender while installing a factory warrantied option, JLR shares in that failure by virtue of its decision to allow that dealership to officially represent, sell and service JLR products.
 
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plainjaneFJC

Goofball
The clickbait is JLR's spectacular failure, and nothing more. This has become an absurd situation. The longer it goes on, the worse it gets. In a very public and very embarrassing way, JLR is affirming its reputation of poor quality, reliability and service. Read the comments on that video--of course people can't look away. TFL has been, in my opinion, quite fair and gracious.
Its a huge dumpster fire at this point. I'd be surprised they knicked an irreplaceable harness- that just makes no sense. My guess is defender # 2 has another BS electrical problem like defender # 1 did.
 
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