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New Defender News

T-Willy

Well-known member
My initial reaction to this video was that JLR needs to replace this vehicle. But the more interesting question now is whether they can even diagnose and repair these problems. Thus far, they can't.
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
I'm hoping they don't lemon the vehicle but actually find root cause. And yes, I'm concerned that the embedded diagnostic capability is falling short on pinpointing the problem.
 

T-Willy

Well-known member
I'm hoping they don't lemon the vehicle but actually find root cause. And yes, I'm concerned that the embedded diagnostic capability is falling short on pinpointing the problem.
I agree. While these problems may be anecdotal, Land Rover's inability to even diagnose and fix their own product is not. That makes this situation very revealing; I hope TFL rides it out.
 

Carson G

Well-known member
My initial reaction to this video was that JLR needs to replace this vehicle. But the more interesting question now is whether they can even diagnose and repair these problems. Thus far, they can't.
I almost wonder if the engine has popped a head gasket now that’s a very unlikely situation on a new engine that hasn’t been run hot but it could happen. If the head gasket failed between cylinders it would cause compression and fuel air mixture leakage between the two affected cylinders, it however would not cause most of the other common bad head gasket symptoms like coolant in oil, white smoke, oil consumption, etc. The easy way to test for this would be a simple leak down test.
 

T-Willy

Well-known member
I almost wonder if the engine has popped a head gasket now that’s a very unlikely situation on a new engine that hasn’t been run hot but it could happen. If the head gasket failed between cylinders it would cause compression and fuel air mixture leakage between the two affected cylinders, it however would not cause most of the other common bad head gasket symptoms like coolant in oil, white smoke, oil consumption, etc. The easy way to test for this would be a simple leak down test.
This seems like a plausible hypothesis. A one-off problem, even if that severe, is less disconcerting to me than one that can't be diagnosed.
 

Corgi_express

Well-known member
that’s a very unlikely situation on a new engine that hasn’t been run hot but it could happen.
They did run it off road at over 10,000 feet elevation with less than a hundred miles on it. That's not exactly a normal break-in procedure. The only thing that makes this hypothesis seem unlikely to me is that if it were that simple you'd think they would have it figured out by now.
 
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Carson G

Well-known member
They did run it off road at over 10,000 feet elevation with less than a hundred miles on it. That's not exactly a normal break-in procedure. The only thing that makes this hypothesis seem unlikely to me is that if it were that simple you'd think they would have it figured out by now.
Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if they haven’t checked that.

We are talking about techs and engineers here not mechanics. They like to computer diagnose everything.

I mean there’s only so many things on a engine that could cause cylinder 2 and 3 to throw that kind of fault. Frankly two faulty coils, injectors, spark plugs, etc, that just so happen to fail on two cylinders that are right next to each other and to have it happen at the same time seems kinda odd to me. Plus the fact that the diagnostic system isn’t really able to pickup the source makes me think it’s a mild internal issue. Frankly it could be as simple as a head bolt/stud or two that wasn’t torqued properly which would then cause the head gasket to pop or at the very least leak around the gasket. I kinda doubt altitude or off roading had anything to do with a head gasket failure nor do I think it would be related to not following break in procedure.

Engine break in is primarily to seat the piston rings and with modern synthetic oils it takes a while to do that. IMO I don’t think they over worked a new engine by going off road if anything I think they babied it too much. You need cylinder pressure to seat rings and you won’t get much of that hanging around low RPM and load, now I’m not saying to redline it but give it a little bit of gas.
 
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DieselRanger

Well-known member
to be fair to LR, the most logical place for it IS in the Discovery, because of the range advantage.

Maybe if the EcoDiesel Jeeps start selling like mad they'll put it in the Defender too.
I can't find any info on Td6 take rate but a statement on their US website that was updated 5 days ago according to Google states they expect a 15% take rate on any model released with the Td6 engine. Some markets will have a much higher take rate - most Discoveries I've seen parked (the badge is small) are Td6's, and I'd say half of the RRS's I've seen have Td6 engines here in Colorado.

I don't see many if any EcoDiesel Cherokees but see a fair number of EcoDiesel RAM 1500s. Haven't seen any F150 PowerStrokes (basically the same block as the Td6, different crank and turbo) but I don't really look for those.
 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if they haven’t checked that.

We are talking about techs and engineers here not mechanics. They like to computer diagnose everything.

I mean there’s only so many things on a engine that could cause cylinder 2 and 3 to throw that kind of fault. Frankly two faulty coils, injectors, spark plugs, etc, that just so happen to fail on two cylinders that are right next to each other and to have it happen at the same time seems kinda odd to me. Plus the fact that the diagnostic system isn’t really able to pickup the source makes me think it’s a mild internal issue. Frankly it could be as simple as a head bolt/stud or two that wasn’t torqued properly which would then cause the head gasket to pop or at the very least leak around the gasket. I kinda doubt altitude or off roading had anything to do with a head gasket failure nor do I think it would be related to not following break in procedure.

Engine break in is primarily to seat the piston rings and with modern synthetic oils it takes a while to do that. IMO I don’t think they over worked a new engine by going off road if anything I think they babied it too much. You need cylinder pressure to seat rings and you won’t get much of that hanging around low RPM and load, now I’m not saying to redline it but give it a little bit of gas.
Manual for the Defender states there is a 2,000 mile break-in period. It's clear as day. When I was growing up, the saying was "drive it hard but take it easy," meaning you need to give it some beans from time to time, vary the engine speed frequently, but never redline it or stress the engine with heavy loads.

Screenshot_20201103-135710_iGUIDE.jpg
 

jdlobb

Adventurer
so basically they did literally every single thing that their manual said, explicitly, not to do. got it.
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
I doubt break-in period or altitude is the issue. The 10,000 ft perspective would say manufacturers would not be able to sell into areas of the intermountain west. Taking the Defender on a off road journey to 10K is actually a pretty mild workload profile of long drives and low rpm's. In fact it is almost an ideal break-in workload profile of varied rpm's and work.
 
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