New Defender News

Carson G

Well-known member
On an LR3 with Lift rods you still have access mode with you Lift rods on. Granted it’s 2” higher that normal access mode but you alway have three selectable setting.
Yeah IIRC its when you do the bump stop extensions that you lose access height.
 

umbertob

Adventurer
Yeah a 130 would be ideal IMO coming from a D3 and D4. Especially if they keep the spare tire on the back door. That should make some room for an aux fuel tank aft of the back axle.
I am thinking that an extra 8 -10" of cargo plus the rear tire hanging from the back may make it tough to fit a Defender 130 in some garages... The "smaller" 110 is already pushing 17' in length. Also based on rough sketches LR released in the past, I am thinking they will have to relocate the full size spare elsewhere (probably under the car) in a 130 - if the ever release it - to make up for the stretched rear end.
 

shawnpalmer

New member
What he means is: once you fit lift rods, the Access height is now 2" higher.

The rods fool the car into thinking that the car is lower than it actually is, so the car then increases its Baseline height.

Since all Height modes are based on that Baseline height, all heights are now 2" higher, including Access.

This is why I prefer doing lifts with my IID tool, it's software only and on the fly.

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk
He said less than 7 foot of height, which is what I was referring to. My rods are 1.5, so I realize I will never get access height lower than 1.5 above stock. It'll still get pretty low though. I think less than 7 feet for sure.
 

soflorovers

Well-known member
Lift rods just keep it 2" above normal ride height all the time - will not affect EAS lift above that height and doesn't interface with the terrain response system. The only effect to driving dynamics is a higher COG in normal driving. Huge negative is when you need to get into a parking garage with less than 7 foot height...you can't.
Lift rods are great for 95% of people out there who wish to stuff a slightly larger tire for aesthetic reasons, but will cause some problems when you actually begin to push the platform. My main reasoning is this: Lift rods run a permanent 2+ lift on the air suspension. Older LR's (At least my LR3), tend to self-lift into "off road" mode when they sense that you've gone off a smooth surface. As a result, the truck will try to automatically raise itself into "off road" height, which is actually "extended" mode now because you've fooled the sensors. For those of you that have actually had to use "extended" mode, you'll know there's virtually zero give in the suspension. Ideally, I wish there was a way to lock the suspension in place....oh wait, it's called a GAP tool. Under certain circumstances, there are valid reasons to run lift rods, mainly in conjunction with an SYA kit and a GAP tool to keep the sensors within range.

TLDR: lift rods without a GAP tool will allow you to fit a larger tire, but will ultimately hurt you in terms of suspension travel and articulation because you're constantly going to be fighting a truck that thinks it knows better.
 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
On an LR3 with Lift rods you still have access mode with you Lift rods on. Granted it’s 2” higher that normal access mode but you alway have three selectable setting.
That's the point...the truck "thinks" it's in Access Height, but really it's in ~Normal height. You don't get 2" more in Extended or Super Extended with lift rods, however - the bags only extend the suspension so far. So in effect, you're sacrificing Access Height to fit larger tires that would otherwise rub in Normal height. My D5 when I have the factory crossbars up top sometimes requires me to lock it in Access Height (the *real* access height) when I'm entering some parking garages.
 

soflorovers

Well-known member
That's the point...the truck "thinks" it's in Access Height, but really it's in ~Normal height. You don't get 2" more in Extended or Super Extended with lift rods, however - the bags only extend the suspension so far. So in effect, you're sacrificing Access Height to fit larger tires that would otherwise rub in Normal height. My D5 when I have the factory crossbars up top sometimes requires me to lock it in Access Height (the *real* access height) when I'm entering some parking garages.
The concept of a lift rod is actually pretty clever, and I'd happily run them without any additional modifications if it weren't for the fact that the truck is constantly trying to second guess you. If I could lock the truck in "Normal" height (i.e. 2+ with rods), I'd run the lift rods exclusively (assuming I were starting from scratch and not with my current rig).
 

A.J.M

Explorer
Is that not why you also buy a GAP iid tool?

So you can lift the car and save it as a setting 2.
Then plug it back in and select setting 1 which is the street setting.
 

catmann

Member
The LR appeal over the Defender design trademark fell through, so now it is "official" that Ineos can move ahead.

 

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soflorovers

Well-known member
Is that not why you also buy a GAP iid tool?

So you can lift the car and save it as a setting 2.
Then plug it back in and select setting 1 which is the street setting.
Kinda? A GAP tool is at least 4x the price of lift rods. I actually think I paid less than $100 for my Proud Rhino rods. So, with that said, I understand why someone wouldn't want to spend an additional $500 on a GAP tool (despite the fact that a GAP tool does so much more than suspension) just to finely tune or lock out the suspension on a vehicle that will likely spend less than 1% of its life off pavement. Not only that, but the issues described above only apply on harder trails that most people wouldn't dare put their DD on. Regarding the different settings, I actually think the "normal" height for a truck on lift rods is actually perfect for full time on and off road use. Unfortunately, as stated before, my issue comes with the fact that you can't get the truck to stop raising itself when it feels "off road" height is necessary.
 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
The LR appeal over the Defender design trademark fell through, so now it is "official" that Ineos can move ahead.

Interestingly, nobody at Land Rover considered the need to trademark a shape until Gerry came along and the Chinese straight up stole the Evoque design. They won't make that mistake again.

Jeep was lucky in the US in that they got a protectionist judge who was willing to retroactively apply a design trademark in their lawsuit against Mahindra. Sadly for Land Rover they couldn't do the same against Ineos, but it's win-win for the British auto industry.
 

ChasingOurTrunks

Active member
I’m interested in this GAP tool versus Lift Rods discussion - I think I have a handle on the lift rods, thanks to all who helped.

Am I understanding correctly that when people say GAP tool they are talking about these OBD II code readers and that GAP is the name of the manufacturer?


And is this the only option for interfacing with the LR computer for things like EAS adjustments, or are there other options out there? And do we know if the GAP tools work with the new Defender In the same way as they do other Land Rovers?
 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
I’m interested in this GAP tool versus Lift Rods discussion - I think I have a handle on the lift rods, thanks to all who helped.

Am I understanding correctly that when people say GAP tool they are talking about these OBD II code readers and that GAP is the name of the manufacturer?


And is this the only option for interfacing with the LR computer for things like EAS adjustments, or are there other options out there? And do we know if the GAP tools work with the new Defender In the same way as they do other Land Rovers?
Yes, but they may not provide all functionality for D5 and new Defender. GAP reverse engineers vehicle code so you can unlock service-advisor levels of control. But so far it appears the D5 and likely the Defender have encrypted their code. GAP says "Limited coverage for 2017 and up vehicles" and stops at MY 2019 for the D5. Nothing so far for the Defender.
 

A.J.M

Explorer
I’m hoping they crack the D5 and the new Defender.

my iid tool has been brilliant.
From reading and clearing codes, to adjusting ride heights, updating software after amk installation and loads of other stuff.
Mine was £360 and with the price rises it’s still worth £360 used.
plus with it being able to sort basic stuff on any OBD landy, it’s earned me a few quid back.
 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
I’m hoping they crack the D5 and the new Defender.

my iid tool has been brilliant.
From reading and clearing codes, to adjusting ride heights, updating software after amk installation and loads of other stuff.
Mine was £360 and with the price rises it’s still worth £360 used.
plus with it being able to sort basic stuff on any OBD landy, it’s earned me a few quid back.
Unlikely IMO based on vulnerabilities that can be exploited in electronic steering, throttle, brakes, and driver assistance systems which are or will soon be mandated by law. Add to that the desire for JLR to monetize vehicle data from owners - i.e., pay owners for telematics related to driving habits and such.

Lots of recent litigation that supports the idea that vehicle code is company intellectual property, not the owner, so strong encryption is going to be the norm for all vehicles going forward and it's going to be very difficult and likely illegal in many countries to crack without factory-licensed software.

GAP is probably going to have to buy a license from JLR that is transferable to the owner, or otherwise implement protections that will prevent the code from being exploited through the tool.
 

ChasingOurTrunks

Active member
Fascinating info folks, thanks. I actually fully support encryption generally for a whole host of reasons but I’m also keen on how these Defenders do with shade tree mechanics. I’m hopeful that third party can find a solution - JLR may not want to play ball, but they may be forced to if the “right to repair” movement continues picking up steam in the USA and the UK (and I hope it does).
 
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