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New Defender News

DieselRanger

Well-known member
The gap tool has been able to modify CCF’s on other models so I wouldn’t be surprised if they do in the future.
Older models didn't incorporate code signing. A bunch of legislation recently has supported the argument by automakers that software features are IP and thus not covered under any "right to repair" laws in the same way that, say, a transmission or a differential can be rebuilt or modified by an owner or 3rd party.


TL;DR: Security-on-Chip for automotive software is coming (already here for many vehicles and systems). Not only is it to protect against someone hacking your car while you're driving it and making you run into a bridge abutment at 120mph, but it's also to prevent you from activating OEM features you didn't pay for.

...And to allow automakers to let you just rent them for a while.
 
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soflorovers

Well-known member
The points regarding the dealer reflashing CCFs when it detects a VIN mismatch with enabled features should be emphasized. JLR will absolutely go after this "Mo" jabroney for theft of intellectual property, especially since the CCFs are code-signed and he would need a valid key from the factory to enable the onboard system to accept his "hacked" copy. Which means he or an accomplice would need to steal it. And the OP straight up uses the word "hacked".

That said, doubtful the new GAP tool will come with any features that "unlock" unpurchased features. But to change programmed behaviors within the bounds of allowed performance, sure.

Why not just try to go back to the dealer, crack open your wallet, and say, "hey, I changed my mind, I'd like just the active diff to be added, what's it gonna be?" and see what they say?
Inverse: I hate OEMs that hide features behind a paywall when they're already available. This isn't the first time JLR includes physical hardware but hides it behind additional costs. $40 from eBay for switches and my D2 now has the heated seats that Solihull wanted to rip me off for lol
 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
Inverse: I hate OEMs that hide features behind a paywall when they're already available. This isn't the first time JLR includes physical hardware but hides it behind additional costs. $40 from eBay for switches and my D2 now has the heated seats that Solihull wanted to rip me off for lol
Agreed - especially when you know, by building one vehicle that actually comes loaded, but is software-locked down to some lower specification, that their profit margins are going way up even on the vehicles they have locked down to some entry-level spec by virtue of the fact their production efficiency is now very high. This will be especially true for pure EVs - other than interior trim and maybe physical attributes like booming sound systems, they can lock everything down from range to performance to drive modes and autonomy.

Couple that with "simplified pricing" (meaning "we don't negotiate, sorry") and you really get less for your money. I'm also wondering how the 2nd and 3rd market will be for vehicles that are built in this way. If they're all built the same, and let's say the first owner pays to "unlock" hidden features, will those features be transferable? Will a 2nd or 3rd or 5th owner be able to unlock old-but-new-to-them features for a discounted price according to that vehicle's depreciation curve? What will that do to used vehicle prices?

Maybe if I know I'm only going to lease a vehicle, why would I pay up front for all of the options? I might get a better deal by leasing a base model, then paying the manufacturer through their website to "rent" some features for the lease term.
 

soflorovers

Well-known member
Agreed - especially when you know, by building one vehicle that actually comes loaded, but is software-locked down to some lower specification, that their profit margins are going way up even on the vehicles they have locked down to some entry-level spec by virtue of the fact their production efficiency is now very high. This will be especially true for pure EVs - other than interior trim and maybe physical attributes like booming sound systems, they can lock everything down from range to performance to drive modes and autonomy.

Couple that with "simplified pricing" (meaning "we don't negotiate, sorry") and you really get less for your money. I'm also wondering how the 2nd and 3rd market will be for vehicles that are built in this way. If they're all built the same, and let's say the first owner pays to "unlock" hidden features, will those features be transferable? Will a 2nd or 3rd or 5th owner be able to unlock old-but-new-to-them features for a discounted price according to that vehicle's depreciation curve? What will that do to used vehicle prices?

Maybe if I know I'm only going to lease a vehicle, why would I pay up front for all of the options? I might get a better deal by leasing a base model, then paying the manufacturer through their website to "rent" some features for the lease term.
I couldn't answer everything you presented, but I can tell you that there are already issues with Tesla's autopilot suite being removed from certain vehicles that are sold used, despite the fact that they came with those features from factory (on the Monroney).

 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
I couldn't answer everything you presented, but I can tell you that there are already issues with Tesla's autopilot suite being removed from certain vehicles that are sold used, despite the fact that they came with those features from factory (on the Monroney).

Yeah I don't trust Tesla as far as I can throw them. Won't even consider one. But Tesla is establishing a model that others are considering and may follow.
 

catmann

Active member
I hope this is not an April Fools Joke. Maybe it will be expanded elsewhwere?


Top Gear UK has a new episode with the Defender.


If in the UK you can watch it here:
 
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roving1

Well-known member
Those tubes without an ARB style metal bumper to tie into on the corners seem kind of pointless. Particularly without the side rails. They are just so far out there in space I can't imagine them doing much of anything in the way of protection.
 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
Those tubes without an ARB style metal bumper to tie into on the corners seem kind of pointless. Particularly without the side rails. They are just so far out there in space I can't imagine them doing much of anything in the way of protection.
Pretty sure they attach to the structural part of the unibody where the winch tray does. Ozzie roo bars are for pushing roos and brush aside, not bashing things. Even "bull bars" on ranch trucks are made for pushing, not bashing. Nothing, not even an ARB bumper is going to mitigate damage from a hard strike against something solid. Well, the bumper might not take much damage, but the truck will. That energy has to go somewhere, and in modern vehicles - even body-on-frame trucks - that have to achieve high crash worthiness ratings, the only places to attach such things are on mounts in the crumple zones, which are purposefully NOT the strongest parts of the vehicle.
 

Carson G

Well-known member
Pretty sure they attach to the structural part of the unibody where the winch tray does. Ozzie roo bars are for pushing roos and brush aside, not bashing things. Even "bull bars" on ranch trucks are made for pushing, not bashing. Nothing, not even an ARB bumper is going to mitigate damage from a hard strike against something solid. Well, the bumper might not take much damage, but the truck will. That energy has to go somewhere, and in modern vehicles - even body-on-frame trucks - that have to achieve high crash worthiness ratings, the only places to attach such things are on mounts in the crumple zones, which are purposefully NOT the strongest parts of the vehicle.
Even ARB bumpers are designed to crumple way before the vehicle.
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
The move to software offered features will eventually be expanded to subscription model revenue streams. Whether new or pre-owned, as long as the 'product' is purchased through a subscription all customers will be eligible for those packages. Those same subscriptions will expire if not paid for.

FYI - LG was said to be the provider of the PiviPro/Defender cell phone functionality. Today LG announced they are withdrawing from the cell phone market and will be focusing all future investments on EV sector.

 

tdhunter13

Observer
So I figured based on @naks post above, that the subframe lift by J Auston Fab would get some more conversation than it has thus far. Since it hasn't and I have curiosity questions, see my deeper dive below.

Firstly, regardless of concerns, this lift looks good. Personally I wouldn't put 35s on, but probably 33s.
Based on this second Defender to get this lift installed (at LR Denver I think), it looks rather labor intensive. Full drop of the front subframe and at least a semi-drop of the rear. While I do think it is a better (albeit drastically costlier) option than lift rods, it is still changing factory angles. So someone correct me if I am wrong, but by fully lowering the suspension subframes you would be increasing the angle of the driveshafts from the transfer case to differentials, correct? That would be my primary concern, although I would rather that than the compromises you make with rods.
Would there be any other points/spots where angles would be increasing?
Any other comments / concerns / criticisms?






 
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