New Carbon Fiber EarthRoamer

Steve_382

Active member
Yikes, $650 to $700K. Doesn't say how much lighter either that I could find. If it's like my carbon bikes, you spend $1,000 for each pound you save, so for $100,000 increase, you might save 100 pounds. Surely the batteries would save a couple hundred pounds going to lithium.
 

trailsurfer

Explorer
Yikes, $650 to $700K. Doesn't say how much lighter either that I could find. If it's like my carbon bikes, you spend $1,000 for each pound you save, so for $100,000 increase, you might save 100 pounds. Surely the batteries would save a couple hundred pounds going to lithium.

I believe that total weight savings will be 1000 + pounds.
 

nathane

Active member
I believe that 0.6mm skin 600g/sqm C.F. (1200g once resin included) is roughly as strong as 2mm 2000g/sqm glass (4000g with resin).

A 4m x 2m x 2m camper box using 2 skins of 2mm glass has 40sqm of panels, 80sqm of skins, a saving of 224kg.
 

762X39

Explorer
Yikes, $650 to $700K. Doesn't say how much lighter either that I could find. If it's like my carbon bikes, you spend $1,000 for each pound you save, so for $100,000 increase, you might save 100 pounds. Surely the batteries would save a couple hundred pounds going to lithium.
So why did you buy a carbon fibre bike? In 1986 I bought an aluminum bike (Cannondale ST400, s/n 000006) and it was a game changer (still have it). Why can't a person buy a carbon fibre camper if they can afford the freight? Also, do we know if they are using lithium? Doesn't Chevy build truck beds or hoods out of carbon fibre? Just wondering...
 

DzlToy

Explorer
The insulation should be fantastic since all of the panels have "vacuum" on the inside of them. Carbon and VIP in one, wow. :D (In the commercial insulation world, VIP = Vacuum Insulated Panel, a fumed silica product, sealed in plastic under 0.1 psi of vacuum.) R-values are 40 to 50 per inch.

Here, it appears that the carbon cloth is 'infused' with resin, hopefully epoxy and not vinyl-ester, while under vacuum or being vacuum bagged. This process, called resin infusing, minimises waste by allowing the amount of resin injected to be tightly controlled, which keeps weight to a minimum. On a large panel, excess epoxy can add significant weight; this is common in wet layup applications. The vacuum on the panel also serves to make a nice surface finish and make the panel even, where a wet layup process can leave the opposite.


Neither the carbon cloth, nor the panel are infused with a vacuum, i.e. the vacuum is not left inside or contained inside either. Rather, the epoxy resin is infused into the cloth, kind of like using a vacuum bleeder for your brakes. Remove the air from a closed loop system, feed tube goes into epoxy source, open the valve, epoxy resin soaks cloth evenly.

Simply replacing an E-Glass or an S-Glass with carbon cloth will not save an enormous amount of weight on its own, as the properties are not THAT much different. The weight savings comes from thinner or lighter weight carbon cloth, inherently stronger than E-glass or CSM. Thinner carbon means less cloth weight, which means less epoxy, as the ratios are typically based on weight, i.e. 16 ounces of carbon cloth requires 16 ounces of resin, or whatever the OEM specifies.

Previously, ER used an end grain balsa wood core. While Bill says this is "light and strong", it isn't really either, and it's old tech. To save weight and improve heat and sound insulation, a structural foam should be used, i.e. CoreCell or Divinycell. Further up the scale are products like Nomex, Hexcel and aeroFibre, squarely in the 'unobtanium' category, unless your last name is Lockheed or Boeing.

So let's compare the old EarthRoamer box to the new one. End Grain Balsa has an R-value just R2 per inch and a mass of about 10 pounds per cubic foot. Compare that to a non-structural foam, such as XPS , having a mass of 1.5 to 2.5 pounds per cubic foot and R-value of 6 per inch, or to Divinycell, with a mass of 2.5 - 5 pounds per cubic foot and R-value of 5 per inch, in the 3 PPCF product.

There is a massive weight savings, just from using foam. Of course the carbon helps, but so does not having wood walls. Kudos to EarthRoamer for pushing the envelope a bit; now the guys and gals who paid 500K for Balsa wood and crappy Dometic windows have to upgrade. :D
 

Steve_382

Active member
So why did you buy a carbon fibre bike? In 1986 I bought an aluminum bike (Cannondale ST400, s/n 000006) and it was a game changer (still have it). Why can't a person buy a carbon fibre camper if they can afford the freight? Also, do we know if they are using lithium? Doesn't Chevy build truck beds or hoods out of carbon fibre? Just wondering...
My legs don't have the same torque they used to have, but my weight is still the same. Our old mtn bikes were Trek 8000, aluminum frames with XT parts, and those bikes are still lighter than the new ones with full suspension shocks, etc. In some ways, I would rather ride the old ones unless on really rough terrain. If money were no object, I would go for the lightest also.
 

MyNameIsMud

New member
I believe that 0.6mm skin 600g/sqm C.F. (1200g once resin included) is roughly as strong as 2mm 2000g/sqm glass (4000g with resin).

A 4m x 2m x 2m camper box using 2 skins of 2mm glass has 40sqm of panels, 80sqm of skins, a saving of 224kg.

The above estimation is very optimistic, you save more like 10%. Basically none understands how good modern day glass fiber is.
 

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
Yep.

I see this more as marketing than legit improvements.
ER needs something "new" and fancy to remain relevant,
especially considering the high cost of an ER.

Improvement? Perhaps.
A good way to construct a camper? Sure.
Worth the additional cost? Probably not.

But they will sell.
And we will see used ones for sale in the future,
on this very forum.
 

waveslider

Outdoorsman
I believe that total weight savings will be 1000 + pounds.

Is that all? I'm certainly NOT an expert on such things, but that seems low. Anyone know the real numbers? A thousand pounds woudl certainly NOT be a game changer and I would stand corrected.

I know that the difference between rowing a normal molded fiberglass drift boat vs a CF drift boat would be amazing. Adipose, let's DO THIS!
 

MyNameIsMud

New member
Is that all? I'm certainly NOT an expert on such things, but that seems low. Anyone know the real numbers? A thousand pounds woudl certainly NOT be a game changer and I would stand corrected.

The 1000+ pound estimate on weight saving is high. CF looks amazing on paper, when only looking at data for the fiber fabric. But when you factor in the resins (which are the same ones used for glass), what you really get with carbon fiber is 7-10% more strength / weight, at X times the cost. It's a good deal for things that fly or race, basically the opposites of a big truck. But someone will buy it for bragging rights, and that's cool.
 

lucilius

Active member
I have to wonder how much time (4 seasons at various latitudes in North America?) and how many rigorous on and offroad test miles they have evaluated using the new carbon fiber body bolted to a commercial-grade chassis truck. I would hope they have at least a few winters and summers of hard use with this body under their belts. I agree with Mud above: carbon fiber is amazing if done well though usually expensive and I wonder how durable it will prove against a spectrum of real world conditions over time. Earthroamers were ideal in the $250-350k range: they really had a niche for those looking for a relatively straightforward upscale 4x4 camper package. The newer $500k+ F550 Earthroamers, even with the 6-airbag full kelderman and the aggressive looking [though somewhat more labor-intensive and 68mph-limited] MPT81+Hutchinson tire-wheel mutations which add some capability along with a slew of specialized maintenance items, are an interesting choice of platform in the ~half million dollar camper market....but it is generally easy to get a Ford fixed when it breaks here in North America. I'm guessing as long as they make their sales numbers they will have a successful run with the lti, and with luck this carbon fibre gambit will pay off for them. Like em or throw stones at em, it's good for everyone that the US overland market is robust and diverse enough to allow for a company like Earthroamer to not only survive but flourish.
 
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