Need help: Which trailer works best for us?

goodol

Member
Praise be!! Goodol. I was trying not to be rude I coyley was trying to talk you out of a Taxa. I just don't think they handed all the axel issues very well. There was a couple that had a you tube Chanel that would just get soaked from all the leaking and I was blown away that Taxa didn't step in and either replace the canvas or even the whole trailer.
Woah! Congratulations! Thought you were going with the Taxa? I don't think you'll regret the Karavan at all. You are supposed to have it in three months? I thought they were 12+ month lead time? Did David Bates have one coming in unspoken for?

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we went with his show t
Woah! Congratulations! Thought you were going with the Taxa? I don't think you'll regret the Karavan at all. You are supposed to have it in three months? I thought they were 12+ month lead time? Did David Bates have one coming in unspoken for?

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Thank you friend. We checked some used Mantis, and it was sold way cheaper than new, and even the previous year’s model sells cheap. We are a little concerned about their resell value, combined with the potential quality issues, we talk to Dave again, and luckily he was able to work out something for us. :) so here we are
 

goodol

Member
So exciting! Dave is a great guy, you won't regret dealing with him. Your decision is solid. It was hard for me to order a Kimberley, but to own something that works the way you want it too, is worth the investment.
Thank you FordGuy1, we are very excited to join the Kimberley’s family. Hope to see all of you guys someday :)
Yes, it meets all of our requirements without much sacrifice, we feel we will almost own a piece of art:)
 

ScottPC

Active member
I agree with the sentiment that production trailers are good for off pavement but probably not difficult off road unless you've spent some time fortifying them. I do disagree that the Airstream Basecamp is not suitable for winter camping. It has a naturally sloped roof that can reduce snow accumulation/drainage. The Basecamp 16x is insulated and has a great ducted Truma Combi / Heater - Hotwater heater that has is quiet, powerful (14,300BUs) efficient, circulates air well, and is fueled by two 20lbs tanks. I've used Truma Combis about 10,000 ft and cold 12ºF temps. The Basecamp is relatively light so most anything designed to tow can can tow it, well balanced/aerodynamic and with a decent departure angle. Of course, improvements can be made for more sleeping configurations and better winter comfort. The ones with lithium batteries inside keep the systems going well and also use heating pads on the water tanks. However, I think this could be improved by sending ducted air into the box surrounding the tank. With everything overlanding, using these things with their strengths and weaknesses in mind goes along way for enjoyable comfortable travel. As an actual basecamp, the 16x works great for hiking, biking or disconnecting your vehicle and hitting the trails. Should issues arise, there's a vast dealer network.
 

eatSleepWoof

Do it for the 'gram
I do disagree that the Airstream Basecamp is not suitable for winter camping. It has a naturally sloped roof that can reduce snow accumulation/drainage. The Basecamp 16x is insulated and has a great ducted Truma Combi / Heater - Hotwater heater that has is quiet, powerful (14,300BUs) efficient, circulates air well, and is fueled by two 20lbs tanks.
Forget winter. Go inside an unheated Airstream on a cool autumn day, and then go inside a similarly unheated fibreglass trailer. The difference will be self evident.

Sure, you can heat up anything, even a tent (I do!), but there's a point at which heating effort vs heat loss becomes silly.

If you're buying a trailer and may happen to, once in a few years, spend one night winter camping? Sure, Airstream will be fine. But buying an Airstream with the intention of using it for winter camping is not a smart move.
 

ScottPC

Active member
Forget winter. Go inside an unheated Airstream on a cool autumn day, and then go inside a similarly unheated fibreglass trailer. The difference will be self evident.

Sure, you can heat up anything, even a tent (I do!), but there's a point at which heating effort vs heat loss becomes silly.

If you're buying a trailer and may happen to, once in a few years, spend one night winter camping? Sure, Airstream will be fine. But buying an Airstream with the intention of using it for winter camping is not a smart move.
I've actually owned a Basecamp 16x and two other airstreams as well as a Fiberglass truck camper so you have to be more specific as to what it being compared. If you're talking a composite camper with closed celled foam, then i would agree it has superior insulating properties. Airstreams are well insulated but they are also designed to be used with systems. The interior aluminum reflects the heat back into the space while also transfering heat into the insulation, so yeah if you simply step into an unheated camper on a cool autumn day it will be cool. As with the Basecamp 16x, if you have the heat going, which you can barely hear is running all, it can be set to heat from 40-85ºF. In addition to being ultra quiet, the Truma combi is a programmable extremely efficient heater both with 12V and propane used plus there are two 20lbs propane and 200aHs of lithium batteries so it's quite comfortable and you can go for weeks as long as you keep the batteries charged, which is true for all campers. If tied into shore power, you can even heat the airstream without using propane or a mix combination. Airstreams fall short when it comes to their single pane glass, as do many other travel trailers. Now, if you're talking about composite trailers with double pane arctic tern style double pane acrylic windows, yeah they're going to do a little better especially if spending weeks or more in cold winter conditions. However, in no way are Airstreams "UNUSABLE in winter" which is the point I was addressing. Lots of people have spent entire winters in airstreams and they they tend to last decades when taken care of without showing their age, so they hold value rather well and the vintage ones have even increased their value even in pre-pandemic times. I'm not an Airstream diehard as I just sold mine and currently giving a VAN conversion a go at the moment, but just think Airstreams should be recognized fairly in the conversation.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
I've actually owned a Basecamp 16x and two other airstreams as well as a Fiberglass truck camper so you have to be more specific as to what it being compared. If you're talking a composite camper with closed celled foam, then i would agree it has superior insulating properties. Airstreams are well insulated but they are also designed to be used with systems. The interior aluminum reflects the heat back into the space while also transfering heat into the insulation, so yeah if you simply step into an unheated camper on a cool autumn day it will be cool. As with the Basecamp 16x, if you have the heat going, which you can barely hear is running all, it can be set to heat from 40-85ºF. In addition to being ultra quiet, the Truma combi is a programmable extremely efficient heater both with 12V and propane used plus there are two 20lbs propane and 200aHs of lithium batteries so it's quite comfortable and you can go for weeks as long as you keep the batteries charged, which is true for all campers. If tied into shore power, you can even heat the airstream without using propane or a mix combination. Airstreams fall short when it comes to their single pane glass, as do many other travel trailers. Now, if you're talking about composite trailers with double pane arctic tern style double pane acrylic windows, yeah they're going to do a little better especially if spending weeks or more in cold winter conditions. However, in no way are Airstreams "UNUSABLE in winter" which is the point I was addressing. Lots of people have spent entire winters in airstreams and they they tend to last decades when taken care of without showing their age, so they hold value rather well and the vintage ones have even increased their value even in pre-pandemic times. I'm not an Airstream diehard as I just sold mine and currently giving a VAN conversion a go at the moment, but just think Airstreams should be recognized fairly in the conversation.
Scott there is a big disconnect with younger buyers and Airstream largely cost. Oddly dropping 50-k -$130k on a import which will be orphaned in a few years ie no parts availability. I do agree that the Airstream should be in the conversation once people are into the 50k and up prices.

I also see the LUX SUV trend here. Drop big $ on a “off” road trailer for which less than 1% will ever drag past a well worn gravel road. Many are not going to “want” to drag a high dollar trailer down a rough road for the same reasons they don’t want to drive their $80k-150k truck down a rough trail.

I definitely am eyeing airstream as an option if we decide to spend more than 25k. Can we? Yes.. Financed? No cash. If we decide we will keep it for many years and have lots of places we want to go the Airstream definitely is on the list. Also Airstream has finally moved to non wood floor/trailer decking. Any trailers running “any” wood product trailer deck material isn’t worth 50+ k.
 

ScottPC

Active member
Scott there is a big disconnect with younger buyers and Airstream largely cost. Oddly dropping 50-k -$130k on a import which will be orphaned in a few years ie no parts availability. I do agree that the Airstream should be in the conversation once people are into the 50k and up prices.

I also see the LUX SUV trend here. Drop big $ on a “off” road trailer for which less than 1% will ever drag past a well worn gravel road. Many are not going to “want” to drag a high dollar trailer down a rough road for the same reasons they don’t want to drive their $80k-150k truck down a rough trail.

I definitely am eyeing airstream as an option if we decide to spend more than 25k. Can we? Yes.. Financed? No cash. If we decide we will keep it for many years and have lots of places we want to go the Airstream definitely is on the list. Also Airstream has finally moved to non wood floor/trailer decking. Any trailers running “any” wood product trailer deck material isn’t worth 50+ k.
I was primarily responding to the earlier comments that "Airstreams are unusable in the winter" as that's just wrong. I don't think they are the best overlanding option but would work well for some families. Used ones that can be under 50K and the new basecamps 16x which were recently under 50K. One selling point is that at 2600lbs / 3500GVWR can be towed easily with many jeeps and just about any daily driver truck or SUV that you might also want to run trails on (after dropping of the basecamp). When compared with some of the truck & camper combos or offroad trailer / RTT combos, the pricing is quite comparable. The differences is some added comfort at the expense of offroad capability. Off pavement, no problem...so a little planning can still make using one of these trailers all four seasons.

As far as getting rid of the wood flooring materials, I agree that's a step in the right direction but don't think that design component automatically qualifies it or disqualifies from an arbitrary price point. It the total package compared to what else is in the market that determines what price it's worth. That's not to say that if you have a pet peeve towards somethng then now matter what it's priced you aren't going to buy it. It's kind of like the gas vs diesel engine debate, there are some diehards on both sides.

In most cases the old airstream floors are still fine unless there was water damage that went untreated, so they should be inspected closely. Keep in mind that Just because metal or composites are used in in products they have to be used correctly and with skill. Metals rust, welds break, and composites delaminate. Quality workmanship is key in everything.

We had a vintage 1966 Airstream that was well under 50K but it was in great shape and lot's of fun. It had higher clearance so I was able take it to some epic spots. It had the original floor...not perfect...but not a show stopper. It's just knowing the strengths and weaknesses of your ride and managing them appropriately. What's right for one person, does not mean it's right for everyone. The converse is true as well.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
I was primarily responding to the earlier comments that "Airstreams are unusable in the winter" as that's just wrong. I don't think they are the best overlanding option but would work well for some families. Used ones that can be under 50K and the new basecamps 16x which were recently under 50K. One selling point is that at 2600lbs / 3500GVWR can be towed easily with many jeeps and just about any daily driver truck or SUV that you might also want to run trails on (after dropping of the basecamp). When compared with some of the truck & camper combos or offroad trailer / RTT combos, the pricing is quite comparable. The differences is some added comfort at the expense of offroad capability. Off pavement, no problem...so a little planning can still make using one of these trailers all four seasons.

As far as getting rid of the wood flooring materials, I agree that's a step in the right direction but don't think that design component automatically qualifies it or disqualifies from an arbitrary price point. It the total package compared to what else is in the market that determines what price it's worth. That's not to say that if you have a pet peeve towards somethng then now matter what it's priced you aren't going to buy it. It's kind of like the gas vs diesel engine debate, there are some diehards on both sides.

In most cases the old airstream floors are still fine unless there was water damage that went untreated, so they should be inspected closely. Keep in mind that Just because metal or composites are used in in products they have to be used correctly and with skill. Metals rust, welds break, and composites delaminate. Quality workmanship is key in everything.

We had a vintage 1966 Airstream that was well under 50K but it was in great shape and lot's of fun. It had higher clearance so I was able take it to some epic spots. It had the original floor...not perfect...but not a show stopper. It's just knowing the strengths and weaknesses of your ride and managing them appropriately. What's right for one person, does not mean it's right for everyone. The converse is true as well.
Winter ski camp in any vehicle is going to be full of icing particularities no matter what is being used. Heck my house moved to a ski resort would have icing particularities 😆😆.

As for prices you need to look at 2015-2019 prices to get a real idea of where they should be today. In 4-8 months you need to look at the prices from 2007 subprime crash to get a idea where they should be ish in 5-8 months.
 

ScottPC

Active member
Winter ski camp in any vehicle is going to be full of icing particularities no matter what is being used. Heck my house moved to a ski resort would have icing particularities 😆😆.

As for prices you need to look at 2015-2019 prices to get a real idea of where they should be today. In 4-8 months you need to look at the prices from 2007 subprime crash to get a idea where they should be ish in 5-8 months.
Certainly the more hot air warming all the surfaces inside the RV and with moist air venting outside is going to reduce condensation considerably. At least in the basecamp, there's ducted heating that moves air and there's a shower (to hang damp gear if you have to) with a vent that can help. The windows are the most prone to condensation, so wiping them down is key. Icing up is most likely on the exterior.

You're probably right about the true value of stuff plus in the near term you will see a lot of excess stock catching up from the backlogged orders and supply chain issues that have been resolving themselves. There are also people cancelling orders for a variety of reasons like they can't zoom as much and have to go back to the office, cost of financing, and gas prices are higher etc. The hard part is once prices get set at higher values it's less likely they go backwards. Usually new less frills products are introduced at that lower mark. In the short term excess stock will likely drive down pricing and you may see more incentives and longer warranties to help move the inventory. Maybe manufacturers will offer low rate financing? Airstream's already has a 3 year transferable warranty which removes some risk and helps when reselling. In no way is their quality perfect, but they do a good job standing by what they sell...at least compared to their immediate competition.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
Certainly the more hot air warming all the surfaces inside the RV and with moist air venting outside is going to reduce condensation considerably. At least in the basecamp, there's ducted heating that moves air and there's a shower (to hang damp gear if you have to) with a vent that can help. The windows are the most prone to condensation, so wiping them down is key. Icing up is most likely on the exterior.

You're probably right about the true value of stuff plus in the near term you will see a lot of excess stock catching up from the backlogged orders and supply chain issues that have been resolving themselves. There are also people cancelling orders for a variety of reasons like they can't zoom as much and have to go back to the office, cost of financing, and gas prices are higher etc. The hard part is once prices get set at higher values it's less likely they go backwards. Usually new less frills products are introduced at that lower mark. In the short term excess stock will likely drive down pricing and you may see more incentives and longer warranties to help move the inventory. Maybe manufacturers will offer low rate financing? Airstream's already has a 3 year transferable warranty which removes some risk and helps when reselling. In no way is their quality perfect, but they do a good job standing by what they sell...at least compared to their immediate competition.
With RVs and boats price reset is created by bankruptcy and repos. Both of which are climbing. My brothers law partner handles bankruptcy for a major CA region 5 months ago he saw 1 every few weeks today he sees several a week. He said the fundamentals are all the same the early bankruptcy cases while economy is relatively ok regarding job market is always consumer debt issues ie bought the TRX, built it up, bought the side by side built that up, maxed out credit cards, bought the toy hauler on a house credit line etc… Yep still lots of people doing that….. Just recently he’s starting to see job loss related bankruptcy ie toys all sold off, cash flow has dropped and sold toy money drying up etc.
 

zimm17

Observer
I have nearly the same requirements- Limited to 3500 pounds max load. 2 kids. Big dog, although he doesn't always go camping. I started with tent camping out of a utility trailer. Then bought a fiberglass 17' Casita with bunk beds (Heritage model). It was great when the kids were little and the dog was a puppy. It has an indoor kitchen and full bathroom too. However it was a little on the heavy side for the Jeep. We got stationed overseas so I had to sell it and now I'm researching the next thing to get.

I'm leaning towards a teardrop or intech. Only issue with a teardrop is that kids will have to tent it (they're 10 and 12, they can handle it), but the bigger issue is that once you open the door and climb in, you're in bed. Raining? Covered in mud from off-roading? Wet? It's all going into the sheets. I guess I can set up a privy tent and a portable potty if there's no campground toilets to use.

Then I think about the differences between day dreaming and what I've actually done. I always say the family will go, but most of my off-road trips, I'm solo. I've driven from Miami to Moab and back. Hotels the whole way and a tent and cot at the Moab campground. Worked great, was cheap, and didn't take up any space. I took the Casita to a few trail heads and camped there with the boys. On other overland trips, it was strictly tent camping on the trailside.

What I really NEED is heat, maybe air conditioning, secure indoor sleeping, and easy to tow. I'm not going hard core off-road with a trailer, it stays in the parking lot or campground.

So maybe I'll get a small trailer just for me and when the family goes, hotel time.
 
Zimm 17-

That 3,500 pounds towing capacity limits you (and myself) if you want a stand up you like me really only have one choice Trail Marker Up and Out with interior Wet Bath. If you want details let me know. Mine will sleep 4. It is off road light.

I believe they will start taking orders in Jan 2023. Probably 12 month lead time.
 

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