My Taco Phoenix Pop Up Camper
- Thread starter MYTACO
- Start date
Ramblinman
Observer
Wow I have not heard problems like this from FWC or ATC - Owners mostly (if not always ) compliment the respective companies. Thanks for this thread MYTACO. In this day and age we all look the internet to review products. and we get to say what we want ... Victoria Palmer good luck with the rest of your journey.
Thank you very much for all your experiences on here MYTACO.
I currently am running an older (2007) Palomino Bronco and even on that base model TC I haven't had any water issues. Not even condensation. I have camped in lots of rain on the West Coast of Canada and haven't had a drop come through, no staining, nothing.
I have been looking around at new ones due to some of the features we now want and was looking at Hallmark, FWC or Phoenix…..I can now say 1 of those is off the list….dont think I have to say which one.
For those that have been able to somehow write that they at least see good customer service to back up their product…..Where? All I see is dodging.
Good luck, and I agree, I would be calling Phoenix letting them you are on your way to return the camper and they should have a cheque ready to buy it back at full purchase price.
Cheers
Morgan
Cheers
I currently am running an older (2007) Palomino Bronco and even on that base model TC I haven't had any water issues. Not even condensation. I have camped in lots of rain on the West Coast of Canada and haven't had a drop come through, no staining, nothing.
I have been looking around at new ones due to some of the features we now want and was looking at Hallmark, FWC or Phoenix…..I can now say 1 of those is off the list….dont think I have to say which one.
For those that have been able to somehow write that they at least see good customer service to back up their product…..Where? All I see is dodging.
Good luck, and I agree, I would be calling Phoenix letting them you are on your way to return the camper and they should have a cheque ready to buy it back at full purchase price.
Cheers
Morgan
Cheers
MYTACO
Adventurer
Ok, I've been thinking and started researching the warranty issue. When I picked up my TC, it was very rushed--and I didn't even get all of the warranty books--thinking back to the fantastic fan issue. I don't recall Rob ever talking about a warranty. I am going to comb though all of my paperwork again, but as I was looking on line for Phoenix warranties, I found this from the truck camper magazine website:
http://www.truckcampermagazine.com/news/coyote-rv-custom-pop-up-campers
"TCM: Tell us about your warranty.
"Robby: Our warranty gives five year coverage for the body, structure (which is an aluminum frame), the flooring of the camper, pop-up liner fabric, and the lift mechanism. Everything else is a year. Some appliances are covered through their manufacturer.
"If an out-of-state issue comes up, you can take your camper to a local RV service center that you trust. They calls us and we work out warranty issues with them so that you can have it covered close to you."
Did any of the current or former Phoenix owners get copies of a warranty? Certainly seems that my issues should be fully covered...although I have found that local dealers will not touch it with a 10' pole.
I did reach out and contact them again. I am really trying to remain optimistic--and really hoping that my TC is just a fluke. I appreciate everyone's support... and I realize that it looks like I am patient; for the most part, that is not a character feature that I am known for. That being said, if I learned anything from my time in the military is not to lose sleep over the things I can't always control (often easier said than done).
http://www.truckcampermagazine.com/news/coyote-rv-custom-pop-up-campers
"TCM: Tell us about your warranty.
"Robby: Our warranty gives five year coverage for the body, structure (which is an aluminum frame), the flooring of the camper, pop-up liner fabric, and the lift mechanism. Everything else is a year. Some appliances are covered through their manufacturer.
"If an out-of-state issue comes up, you can take your camper to a local RV service center that you trust. They calls us and we work out warranty issues with them so that you can have it covered close to you."
Did any of the current or former Phoenix owners get copies of a warranty? Certainly seems that my issues should be fully covered...although I have found that local dealers will not touch it with a 10' pole.
I did reach out and contact them again. I am really trying to remain optimistic--and really hoping that my TC is just a fluke. I appreciate everyone's support... and I realize that it looks like I am patient; for the most part, that is not a character feature that I am known for. That being said, if I learned anything from my time in the military is not to lose sleep over the things I can't always control (often easier said than done).
MYTACO
Adventurer
This saga just gets worse and worse, incredible patience from the OP.
I thought I was going to be in the market for a new pop up camper...this thread has convinced me that what I have meets my needs.
Bob, I could make you a deal on a Phoenix!
I received a warranty with my purchase, reads much like your quote from TCM. I have had a couple issues that Phoenix responded to promptly and has been corrected. Not sure why local dealers will not help unless its a concern being a "custom" build. However, if Phoenix communicates with an approved facility and pays them for the work, it should not be that difficult. These campers do not require rocket scientists
With this question of warranty, I wonder if this whole lose lose situation for both customer and manufacturer could have been avoided? From what I understand, problems were posted to this forum initially instead of Phoenix? I can see how that might make them less inclined to help, not that its the correct response. I would hope that any business with customer concerns/problems handle the issue with absolute resolution.
My humble recommendation for the warranty, if you can't find it, ask Phoenix for a copy. If it helps, PM me and I'll send you a copy of mine.
I would be very surprised if there any Phoenix authorized RV repair shops. This isn't just limited to Phoenix. It would any manufacturer that doesn't have some sort of distribution channel other than the factory. You can find factory authorized repair faciliteis for the appliances, but think an RV repair at anyplace other than the factory would be at your own risk. Ask for a list.I received a warranty with my purchase, reads much like your quote from TCM. I have had a couple issues that Phoenix responded to promptly and has been corrected. Not sure why local dealers will not help unless its a concern being a "custom" build. However, if Phoenix communicates with an approved facility and pays them for the work, it should not be that difficult. These campers do not require rocket scientists
With this question of warranty, I wonder if this whole lose lose situation for both customer and manufacturer could have been avoided? From what I understand, problems were posted to this forum initially instead of Phoenix? I can see how that might make them less inclined to help, not that its the correct response. I would hope that any business with customer concerns/problems handle the issue with absolute resolution.
My humble recommendation for the warranty, if you can't find it, ask Phoenix for a copy. If it helps, PM me and I'll send you a copy of mine.
MYTACO
Adventurer
Terra Ops,
I have always tried communicating with the manufacturer/Rob before posting on this forum. I have several emails--and in each, I identify the problem. The response is typically, "that is normal" or as I indicated in one post (re: the fantastic fan), "we just install the item." I have only posted on this forum following their response--or lack of helpful response (ex. look back to the bubbling in this fiberglass cover..."this is normal"). I have always given them the first shot of correcting the issue--or pointing me in the right direction. Quite honestly, their responses have been of little help--and are almost always condescending or even accusatory (e.g. I caused the issue of the leaks because I put the camper up wet). I've resigned myself to always carrying tilex and a sponge to take care of the leak stains...
I also found an email from Cari in response to my warranty question, wherein I specifically asked what kind of warranty the TC came with. They responded that the warranty was typically found in the pile of documents they gave me (which are included with the frig, fan, cassette toliet, etc.). From that I assumed that there was no warranty. I received an owner's manual via email, but it is generic--with no mention of a warranty. For the most part, I get "half" answers. I have never received a phone call from them--and in response to my phone messages, they were followed by vague emails. Customer service--especially post build--is not a strong suit for this company.
With regard to taking it to a third party for warranty work, they typical RV place (at least where I live) will not touch it because of the mechanisms used to install certain features. For instance, the fantastic fan was not wired properly (according to the RV place here) and as a result, that voided the warranty from fantastic fan. It was also connected with to the 1" tubing (that is used throughout the TC), which didn't provide a good ground. Just with that addition to my price list of an extra $200, it was not worth it. With regard to the water pump, the plumbing used is not rated for drinking water--again, not willing to touch it without replacing all of the tubing. I even asked the local RV place to look at replacing the AC unit--because of the way it was attached (glued, screwed, and what have you with the 1" tubing), it likely would destroy the interior and exterior. Because of that, they also declined. The roof system-- that is unique to the manufacturer, and short of using the wood pillars suggested by Rob, it is anyone's guess. Ironically, the RV place asked if I built the unit...(I assumed that meant it was because it looked "put together" rather than crafted together).
I have tried to repair items myself--and consider myself pretty handy. Like the repair shops, I am a bit confused by how this is assembled. There were definitely a lot of short cuts... As just one example, when I was working on the pump, it was obvious that they used recycled wood of sorts. It had been drilled and holes cut (for not purpose related to this unit) only to have a thin piece of luan cover the top to make it work.
I think I have proven myself to always give Rob and Cari the benefit of the doubt. With my TC, they cut some significant corners. I can only guess that it was because they were too busy with the Bronco. When I gave them a chance to correct the errors--it ended up almost worse than the beginning. While I won't go into additional details, I will recap a few: the re-paint was nothing more than an Earl Schribe over the paint-paint job. The runs and overspray in the paint reflects an amateur job, at best. The awning and light switches weren't even taped to prevent overspray, and the locks were painted closed. The pipes were left to freeze--which has caused some of the current issues. The flooring has started to bubble because of the water leaks (this is presumably covered under the five year warranty). The top still leaks, and the "new arctic" liner--not sure how to describe that, other than the windows are misplaced to such a degree that putting them down is not even an easy task because they now fall behind the poles.
Finally, the recent roof collapsing...the advice I received from Rob (note, BEFORE I posted on this forum) was to use wood to "wedge" into place and use "vice grips" to hold the poles in place. Again, this is a $28k camper that is less than 2 years old....
These TCs are advertised as expedition rated TCs...which I took to mean they would withstand off road conditions. I have not taken mine off road...and in fact, have driven it less than 7,000 miles (all on highways/interstates). I can't imagine this unit handling off road conditions. Screws are constantly coming out...(and the advice I received from Rob was to glue them back in).
Again, I am not looking for a completely flawless unit...I expected some issues--just not to this degree for an almost $28,000.00 set up (not including the almost $2k I spent bringing it back to Colorado). I spared no expense when I initially went to Rob. While I got the custom TC unit for a Tacoma, I did not get the craftsmanship that I thought I had paid for.
In hindsight, I should have been more demanding of information and assurance of the details. I was told they would send me email and picture updates on the build. While I got of few of the beginning process, I didn't get anything following that--the silence was deafening. As such, it wasn't until I arrived (and had paid in full in advance) that I learned the cushions were not properly upholstered, the paint didn't match my truck (despite being told that all he had to do was go to Toyota to get the color code), the cabinets were not what I ordered, etc. I wasn't given the option of the layout--in fact, I don't remember being asked. (Why would anyone put an outdoor shower by the back door??)
Since this thread has begun, I've taken some beatings on both the posts and in PMs. I did make some errors--and I believed that posting my experiences here would help someone else to avoid the same. I relied upon Rob's expertise in building my TC--to my detriment. You're right, it doesn't take rocket scientists to build one of these; but I paid a premium for what I thought would equate to quality. The TC does looks good---from a distance. The devil is in the details--and that is the difference between a quality builder and a builder.
I am upset now...my patience is wearing thin. In sum, Terra Ops, I truly hope that your TC holds up and that he put more craftsmanship and thought into the build. I never wished anyone anything bad or negative as a result of sharing this experience. As outlined from the beginning of this post, this TC was part of my dream to see my own country. I certainly did not buy it to create headaches for either me or Phoenix.
I have always tried communicating with the manufacturer/Rob before posting on this forum. I have several emails--and in each, I identify the problem. The response is typically, "that is normal" or as I indicated in one post (re: the fantastic fan), "we just install the item." I have only posted on this forum following their response--or lack of helpful response (ex. look back to the bubbling in this fiberglass cover..."this is normal"). I have always given them the first shot of correcting the issue--or pointing me in the right direction. Quite honestly, their responses have been of little help--and are almost always condescending or even accusatory (e.g. I caused the issue of the leaks because I put the camper up wet). I've resigned myself to always carrying tilex and a sponge to take care of the leak stains...
I also found an email from Cari in response to my warranty question, wherein I specifically asked what kind of warranty the TC came with. They responded that the warranty was typically found in the pile of documents they gave me (which are included with the frig, fan, cassette toliet, etc.). From that I assumed that there was no warranty. I received an owner's manual via email, but it is generic--with no mention of a warranty. For the most part, I get "half" answers. I have never received a phone call from them--and in response to my phone messages, they were followed by vague emails. Customer service--especially post build--is not a strong suit for this company.
With regard to taking it to a third party for warranty work, they typical RV place (at least where I live) will not touch it because of the mechanisms used to install certain features. For instance, the fantastic fan was not wired properly (according to the RV place here) and as a result, that voided the warranty from fantastic fan. It was also connected with to the 1" tubing (that is used throughout the TC), which didn't provide a good ground. Just with that addition to my price list of an extra $200, it was not worth it. With regard to the water pump, the plumbing used is not rated for drinking water--again, not willing to touch it without replacing all of the tubing. I even asked the local RV place to look at replacing the AC unit--because of the way it was attached (glued, screwed, and what have you with the 1" tubing), it likely would destroy the interior and exterior. Because of that, they also declined. The roof system-- that is unique to the manufacturer, and short of using the wood pillars suggested by Rob, it is anyone's guess. Ironically, the RV place asked if I built the unit...(I assumed that meant it was because it looked "put together" rather than crafted together).
I have tried to repair items myself--and consider myself pretty handy. Like the repair shops, I am a bit confused by how this is assembled. There were definitely a lot of short cuts... As just one example, when I was working on the pump, it was obvious that they used recycled wood of sorts. It had been drilled and holes cut (for not purpose related to this unit) only to have a thin piece of luan cover the top to make it work.
I think I have proven myself to always give Rob and Cari the benefit of the doubt. With my TC, they cut some significant corners. I can only guess that it was because they were too busy with the Bronco. When I gave them a chance to correct the errors--it ended up almost worse than the beginning. While I won't go into additional details, I will recap a few: the re-paint was nothing more than an Earl Schribe over the paint-paint job. The runs and overspray in the paint reflects an amateur job, at best. The awning and light switches weren't even taped to prevent overspray, and the locks were painted closed. The pipes were left to freeze--which has caused some of the current issues. The flooring has started to bubble because of the water leaks (this is presumably covered under the five year warranty). The top still leaks, and the "new arctic" liner--not sure how to describe that, other than the windows are misplaced to such a degree that putting them down is not even an easy task because they now fall behind the poles.
Finally, the recent roof collapsing...the advice I received from Rob (note, BEFORE I posted on this forum) was to use wood to "wedge" into place and use "vice grips" to hold the poles in place. Again, this is a $28k camper that is less than 2 years old....
These TCs are advertised as expedition rated TCs...which I took to mean they would withstand off road conditions. I have not taken mine off road...and in fact, have driven it less than 7,000 miles (all on highways/interstates). I can't imagine this unit handling off road conditions. Screws are constantly coming out...(and the advice I received from Rob was to glue them back in).
Again, I am not looking for a completely flawless unit...I expected some issues--just not to this degree for an almost $28,000.00 set up (not including the almost $2k I spent bringing it back to Colorado). I spared no expense when I initially went to Rob. While I got the custom TC unit for a Tacoma, I did not get the craftsmanship that I thought I had paid for.
In hindsight, I should have been more demanding of information and assurance of the details. I was told they would send me email and picture updates on the build. While I got of few of the beginning process, I didn't get anything following that--the silence was deafening. As such, it wasn't until I arrived (and had paid in full in advance) that I learned the cushions were not properly upholstered, the paint didn't match my truck (despite being told that all he had to do was go to Toyota to get the color code), the cabinets were not what I ordered, etc. I wasn't given the option of the layout--in fact, I don't remember being asked. (Why would anyone put an outdoor shower by the back door??)
Since this thread has begun, I've taken some beatings on both the posts and in PMs. I did make some errors--and I believed that posting my experiences here would help someone else to avoid the same. I relied upon Rob's expertise in building my TC--to my detriment. You're right, it doesn't take rocket scientists to build one of these; but I paid a premium for what I thought would equate to quality. The TC does looks good---from a distance. The devil is in the details--and that is the difference between a quality builder and a builder.
I am upset now...my patience is wearing thin. In sum, Terra Ops, I truly hope that your TC holds up and that he put more craftsmanship and thought into the build. I never wished anyone anything bad or negative as a result of sharing this experience. As outlined from the beginning of this post, this TC was part of my dream to see my own country. I certainly did not buy it to create headaches for either me or Phoenix.
MYTACO: Yes I also received a basic owner's manual and the same warranty terms with my phoenix camper shell that I bought in 2011.
Also back to your top collapsing--I noticed on mine, that when 'popping' the top that it takes a little more force near the end of pushing the lift bars to push them completely out to the side. The bars seem to 'lock' and are not loose and the top seems really stable. When closing the top, it takes a little tugging for the bars to 'release' and to drop the top. Perhaps the side wall brackets that hold the lift bar need to be raised a little bit to put more tension on the lift bars when fully open?
Also back to your top collapsing--I noticed on mine, that when 'popping' the top that it takes a little more force near the end of pushing the lift bars to push them completely out to the side. The bars seem to 'lock' and are not loose and the top seems really stable. When closing the top, it takes a little tugging for the bars to 'release' and to drop the top. Perhaps the side wall brackets that hold the lift bar need to be raised a little bit to put more tension on the lift bars when fully open?
Sorry, did not mean to upset you. I probably should have kept quiet, just trying to see this as objectively as possible. Still, if you would like me send a copy of my warranty or anything else to help, please let me know.
Larry
Bigassgas Explorer
I dunno
, I've got 4 seasons with about 60 to 70 nights and about 35,000 miles in my Phoenix and haven't had any of the issues MyTaco has brought up. My camper hasn't exactly lead an easy life either as it gets shaken, bounced, twisted, baked, frozen, drenched, dusted, driven 90 MPH on the Interstate and it has held up great. My truck and camper actually goes off-roading right along with the Jeeps and other little off-roadsters, not just little dirt paths but real deal four wheeling. Actually, it has held up better than I ever expected any pop up camper to live.
This thread has a couple obvious components to it. 1) Someone has an axe to grind and wants to do it publicly to inflect pain on the builder. Many of these complaints look to be lack of understanding the product, improper use of the product, and perhaps unrealistic expectations of the product regardless who the builder would have been. 2) If Phoenix was a high dollar advertiser of Expedition Portal, Overland Journal as well as the Overland Expo in the way Four Wheel Camper is I doubt this thread would have even been able to take on a life of its own with 282 BS entries without a moderator shutting it down. That is a shame.
Have you also ever noticed people that are happy with their product never go out of their way to create cudo's threads but yet those that either have an issue (or perceived issue) have diarrhea of the keyboard then anybody that has ever had a problem with that product feels compelled to throw gas on the fire? I feel any insightful prospective customer of Phoenix Camper could read right through MyTaco's thread and see she could very well be the type of customer that would find issues with anybody's house, camper, tent, cardboard box...whatever. I feel it would be shame if anybody read this thread and overlooked Phoenix due to MyTaco's perceived issues. I trust there are two sides to every story where it seems the other side of this story is taking the silent and professional role of not feeding the troll in a public light.
This thread has a couple obvious components to it. 1) Someone has an axe to grind and wants to do it publicly to inflect pain on the builder. Many of these complaints look to be lack of understanding the product, improper use of the product, and perhaps unrealistic expectations of the product regardless who the builder would have been. 2) If Phoenix was a high dollar advertiser of Expedition Portal, Overland Journal as well as the Overland Expo in the way Four Wheel Camper is I doubt this thread would have even been able to take on a life of its own with 282 BS entries without a moderator shutting it down. That is a shame.
Have you also ever noticed people that are happy with their product never go out of their way to create cudo's threads but yet those that either have an issue (or perceived issue) have diarrhea of the keyboard then anybody that has ever had a problem with that product feels compelled to throw gas on the fire? I feel any insightful prospective customer of Phoenix Camper could read right through MyTaco's thread and see she could very well be the type of customer that would find issues with anybody's house, camper, tent, cardboard box...whatever. I feel it would be shame if anybody read this thread and overlooked Phoenix due to MyTaco's perceived issues. I trust there are two sides to every story where it seems the other side of this story is taking the silent and professional role of not feeding the troll in a public light.
I dunno, I’ve got 4 seasons with about 60 to 70 nights and about 35,000 miles in my Phoenix and haven’t had any of the issues MyTaco has brought up. My camper hasn’t exactly lead an easy life either as it gets shaken, bounced, twisted, baked, frozen, drenched, dusted, driven 90 MPH on the Interstate and it has held up great. My truck and camper actually goes off-roading right along with the Jeeps and other little off-roadsters, not just little dirt paths but real deal four wheeling. Actually, it has held up better than I ever expected any pop up camper to live.
This thread has a couple obvious components to it. 1) Someone has an axe to grind and wants to do it publicly to inflect pain on the builder. Many of these complaints look to be lack of understanding the product, improper use of the product, and perhaps unrealistic expectations of the product regardless who the builder would have been. 2) If Phoenix was a high dollar advertiser of Expedition Portal, Overland Journal as well as the Overland Expo in the way Four Wheel Camper is I doubt this thread would have even been able to take on a life of its own with 282 BS entries without a moderator shutting it down. That is a shame.
Have you also ever noticed people that are happy with their product never go out of their way to create cudo’s threads but yet those that either have an issue (or perceived issue) have diarrhea of the keyboard then anybody that has ever had a problem with that product feels compelled to throw gas on the fire? I feel any insightful prospective customer of Phoenix Camper could read right through MyTaco’s thread and see she could very well be the type of customer that would find issues with anybody’s house, camper, tent, cardboard box...whatever. I feel it would be shame if anybody read this thread and overlooked Phoenix due to MyTaco’s perceived issues. I trust there are two sides to every story where it seems the other side of this story is taking the silent and professional role of not feeding the troll in a public light.
Glad you are happy with your camper. There may be another side to the story, guess we will never see it. I do believe my eyes and the pictures My Taco has put up are enough for me. And Customers who like their campers do put up post on what they like about them. I have several on my trip reports and there are many on WTW's FWC forum. The positive reports just don't get the responses you see on the negative reports.
Bill
Victoria Palmer
Observer
I dunno, I've got 4 seasons with about 60 to 70 nights and about 35,000 miles in my Phoenix and haven't had any of the issues MyTaco has brought up. My camper hasn't exactly lead an easy life either as it gets shaken, bounced, twisted, baked, frozen, drenched, dusted, driven 90 MPH on the Interstate and it has held up great. My truck and camper actually goes off-roading right along with the Jeeps and other little off-roadsters, not just little dirt paths but real deal four wheeling. Actually, it has held up better than I ever expected any pop up camper to live.
This thread has a couple obvious components to it. 1) Someone has an axe to grind and wants to do it publicly to inflect pain on the builder. Many of these complaints look to be lack of understanding the product, improper use of the product, and perhaps unrealistic expectations of the product regardless who the builder would have been. 2) If Phoenix was a high dollar advertiser of Expedition Portal, Overland Journal as well as the Overland Expo in the way Four Wheel Camper is I doubt this thread would have even been able to take on a life of its own with 282 BS entries without a moderator shutting it down. That is a shame.
Have you also ever noticed people that are happy with their product never go out of their way to create cudo's threads but yet those that either have an issue (or perceived issue) have diarrhea of the keyboard then anybody that has ever had a problem with that product feels compelled to throw gas on the fire? I feel any insightful prospective customer of Phoenix Camper could read right through MyTaco's thread and see she could very well be the type of customer that would find issues with anybody's house, camper, tent, cardboard box...whatever. I feel it would be shame if anybody read this thread and overlooked Phoenix due to MyTaco's perceived issues. I trust there are two sides to every story where it seems the other side of this story is taking the silent and professional role of not feeding the troll in a public light.
Have you looked at the photos My Taco posted? She is definitely not making this up. My Phoenix has had numerous problems as well, I had the same accusatory type of responses that MyTaco received, wherein both Carrie and Robbie told me over and over again that the problems were either 'normal' or that it must have been something we did.
I don't doubt that at one time Phoenix made a quality product. And perhaps they still are. Unfortunately, I have not experienced that and have had no help,from the company when we told them about our problems.
I wish this thread had existed when I was doing my research on buying a camper, I definitely would not have spent over 20K on something that we were unable to even sleep in if it rained...
offroadcamperguy
Supporting Sponsor
phoenix simple lift strap kit
The lift bars swing up over center, and should therefor wedge into place, using the weight of the roof and tension of the liner to hold. There is a variety of reasons that they could come lose - angled parking, side to side movement in the camper, light weight roof, driving, and so on.
an easy to install security strap kit is available for the Phoenix Simple Lift..............
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Instructions for ordering yours are included in the comment section of the page.
The lift bars swing up over center, and should therefor wedge into place, using the weight of the roof and tension of the liner to hold. There is a variety of reasons that they could come lose - angled parking, side to side movement in the camper, light weight roof, driving, and so on.
an easy to install security strap kit is available for the Phoenix Simple Lift..............
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Io8xXfbXxc&feature=youtu.be
Instructions for ordering yours are included in the comment section of the page.