My opinion of Land Rover

TRIARII

Adventurer
I just posted this in a LR fan page and feel like sharing my thoughts on my wall. Regarding Land Rover: in my opinion Land Rover fell from grace with the introduction of the Range Rover Classic. Why? Because the RRC set the stage for all future Rovers: luxury over practicality. Rovers before the RRC where robust, more reliable, less computers and pure utilitarian: practical vehicles. As much as I like fancy computers and air suspension, I admit neither are practical for a working truck nor are they useful while off-roading. When LR realized the demand for upscale luxury vehicles they changed their direction and focused on producing new vehicles aimed not at the farmers, not at the hard working class, but the high end rich class of people. Followed by their inability to manage their assets and keep their company together, consequently the Rover was sold, bought, sold and bought again. They neglected quality control and cut to many corners which is most apparent in the first 2 generations of the Discovery models where they used cheap plastics from the pars bin and an old defective Rover V8 that was already outdated and the tooling for the engine old. Today I strongly believe that Land Rover has completely abandoned the its roots. In another 10-15 years their probably will not be any practical modern off-road worthy 4x4's. Land Rover cares more about celebrities and politicians than they do off-road enthusiasts and utility vehicles.

I think Land Rover Range Rover should split into two completely separate vehicle manufacturing companies. "Range Rover" for the upscale luxury market and "Land Rover" for the utilitarian offroad 4x4 capable nitch. I also think that someone in the UK should buy back "Land Rover" and revive the old principles set in stone by the founders, let India and China have their way with RR. Bring back he Defender and continue progress on a new updated model that remains true and loyal to the iconic design and practicality. Scrap all the new Discovery models and reboot the Disco with a new more utilitarian design.

Ive become so found of the older Land Rovers and Im proud to advertise the company logo on my truck, but when I think of all the new Rovers, I feel a strong lack of interest. New Land Rover seems like a very foreign company. Not the company I remember.
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
Interesting opinion that lacks historical context.

The RRC was developed in the 60's after a Road Car on Land Rover chassis (Road Rover) vehicle was offered in the 50's. By the 60's the SUV market began to emerge with competition from International Harvester, Ford and Jeep. The Scout I / Scout II led the way followed by the Ford Bronco. Both those carved out the practical market segment while Rover introduced the RRC in 1970. The market positioning was similar to MG, Healey and Jaguar, in increasing capabilities and cost.

Quality control and cutting corners was the result of the British car industry being nationalized, beginning with BL taking over Rover in 1967. Later BL was broken up and privatized as socialism nearly killed the British car industry. Recall Triumph, Austin Healey, Sunbeam, ..... ? What happened to them during that experiment? Quality of Jaguar and Land Rover began to increase in 1988 and improved further under BMW and Ford. Tata has invested heavily in engineering and industrial manufacturing to bring JLR to today's industry leading position.

Back to vehicles prior to the RRC. LR/Rover would have ceased to exist without a SUV model, the RRC. Discovery further allowed the company to grow as it is also a SUV.


As for splitting up the Defender and RR lines? The Defender / utilitarian business would languish and die simply do to lack of volume to maintain it as a going business. In addition government regulations for safety and fuel economy would kill it.

Enjoy the progress Tata has made with the Discovery/LR4/RR line. It is the future.
 

Eniam17

Adventurer
They neglected quality control and cut to many corners which is most apparent in the first 2 generations of the Discovery models where they used cheap plastics from the pars bin and an old defective Rover V8 that was already outdated and the tooling for the engine old. Today I strongly believe that Land Rover has completely abandoned the its roots.

The "roots" are what you just described: low quality control, cheap parts, unreliable engines (I notice the new head gaskets in your signature on your 10 year old rover) . We should be happy they abandoned those roots and started making vehicles that are reliable. Unless you have owned and spent significant time in a newer rover both on and off road, you can't really knock them. There are many things I love about my 89 Rover and also my 08 - they are different animals. But unreliable, uncomfortable boxes on wheels that get terrible gas mileage and need engine rebuilds at 75k do not sell vehicles in a global market place in 2015. The company had to evolve and like it or not few, if any, of us on the Internet forums are JLR's target market anymore.
 

1911

Expedition Leader
When LR realized the demand for upscale luxury vehicles they changed their direction and focused on producing new vehicles aimed not at the farmers, not at the hard working class, but the high end rich class of people.

The exact same thing can be said about Toyota and Land Cruisers. Both companies are in business to make a profit for their respective shareholders, not to maintain an icon for a small minority of enthusiasts.
 

Eniam17

Adventurer
The exact same thing can be said about Toyota and Land Cruisers. Both companies are in business to make a profit for their respective shareholders, not to maintain an icon for a small minority of enthusiasts.

That's it in a nutshell, very true. I love land cruisers too, great vehicles.
 

Fivespddisco

Supporting Sponsor
You hit a few nerves with your post but this one I wanted to add my 2c

Today I strongly believe that Land Rover has completely abandoned the its roots. In another 10-15 years their probably will not be any practical modern off-road worthy 4x4's. Land Rover cares more about celebrities alandnd politicians than they do off-road enthusiasts and utility vehicles.

I don't see how that is true. Lets look back over the last year or two at a few things Land Rover did that I would consider going back to their roots.

They took the millionth Discovery across Europe to China.

They did the trans america trail

They just did the Great Divide with the new big Daddy.

Roots

Roots

Roots

Maybe you were thinking more grass roots

Something like offering a driving school to Rover owners. They do that

Maybe build an off road driving course at the largest overland event in the world to showcase the Rovers off road abilitys . Ooh ya they do that at Expo every year and now twice a year. " East & West"

How about looking after the real hardcore people. Yep they even sponsored Conclave.


I think Land Rover Range Rover should split into two completely separate vehicle manufacturing companies. "Range Rover" for the upscale luxury market and "Land Rover" for the utilitarian offroad 4x4 capable nitch. .

I think they are kinda doing that.

Range Rover = Mac Daddy but can still get it done off road

Discovery = Family truckster for on and off the road

Defender 2.0 = ????? Crush it off road but still nice enough to take out on the town. Same as it is now.
 

hurstjd

Adventurer
I love Land Rovers! I've had a '97 Discovery and now have an '06 LR3.

The discovery ran great, but had lots of little crap going wrong with it all the time. The LR3 has been much better. I have 140,000 now and it is running great.
 

TRIARII

Adventurer
The "roots" are what you just described: low quality control, cheap parts, unreliable engines (I notice the new head gaskets in your signature on your 10 year old rover) . We should be happy they abandoned those roots and started making vehicles that are reliable. Unless you have owned and spent significant time in a newer rover both on and off road, you can't really knock them. There are many things I love about my 89 Rover and also my 08 - they are different animals. But unreliable, uncomfortable boxes on wheels that get terrible gas mileage and need engine rebuilds at 75k do not sell vehicles in a global market place in 2015. The company had to evolve and like it or not few, if any, of us on the Internet forums are JLR's target market anymore.


New headgaskets? I wish! My signature says "factory head gaskets" meaning Im still using the original head gaskets from the factory - on my 10 year old truck with 150 on the clock.
 

95RRC

Adventurer
...
I think Land Rover Range Rover should split into two completely separate vehicle manufacturing companies. "Range Rover" for the upscale luxury market and "Land Rover" for the utilitarian offroad 4x4 capable...

this is precisely, exactly what JLRNA has done....keep up!
 

Dendy Jarrett

Expedition Portal Admin
Staff member
My 2009 LR3 is the most reliable Land Rover I've ever owned, and I've owned a bunch (20 or more). My favorite was a 1993 Bone Stock Range Rover Classic factory coil sprung. (and was probably the most capable over any defender I've owned). My second favorite was the 1996 DI 5 speed. What a fun little truck. But in the end the LR3 wins hands down for capability, form, function, comfort and reliability.

As to loss of its roots ... not Land Rover, however ... the companies that own the name loose sight of the roots for sure (marketing, target market, demographic, ... or whatever you want to label it).

But the factory and the workers, and the heritage ... it's still there. I can look at my LR3 and see the roots to the DI and DII.

I wouldn't however, take my wife's 2010 off roading. It is simply too nice to do so.

D
 

Blueboy

Adventurer
Rovers before the RRC where robust, more reliable, less computers and pure utilitarian: practical vehicles.

As since the weather here was pretty bad last Sunday, watched once again the 50 Years of Land Rover which included the introduction of the RRC.

The intial RRC was quite utilitarian and robust.

It also was much better off-road than the "leafers" and the coil spring suspenion first found on the RRC spread over to the 110 and 90s.

As already mentioned, LR is going into various "levels" of vehicles which hopefully fulfills the buying public needs - It will be very interesting to see Defender 2.0 version.

Personally I already have expressed in the past my "bone" with LR - little support of the vintage vehicles unlike other manufactures, yet, that is a different topic.
 

Eniam17

Adventurer
TRIARII you just stated in the winter romp thread that you , quote "have never done any off-loading before" and want to learn how capable your vehicle is. It's great that you are looking to get out and use your rover and learn but I find it interesting that you decided to post a thread with your opinion about land rover abandoning its roots when you admittedly have never even driven off road in one.

I think you will change your tune after winter romp weekend, and I hope you have a great time and learn a lot about the different capabilities of all land rovers. There will be a great group of people there and everything from heavily modified trucks on 37's, to bone stock 2012 range rovers with 20" street tires.
 

Colin Hughes

Explorer
Agree with Dendy. I've driven just about every model including a fully restored 1950 S1 through a farmers field in Scotland. Wish we would have held onto my wife's RRC. The LR3 has been the most reliable and the most fun to drive, day in and day out.
 

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