My 96 F250 Powerstroke aka Tiny Dancer

[Milo902]

Hello all,

I have spent many many hours over the last few years looking through everything I could on this site, drooling, planning, etc. Most of my time was spent in the 'Yota forums, as I had an old pickup and I'm on my second 3rd Gen 4Runner. I have a bit of vehicle ADD, bought and sold a few vehicles a year for the past few years, mostly fixing them up and losing lots of money on them when I sell. My ADD has brought me full circle back to a vehicle I'm very fond of as a result of my parents farm vehicles, the OBS Ford diesel.

The Truck:
A few months ago through my constant CL window shopping, I came across a '96 Ford F250, Powerstroke, 4x4, CCSB w/ the obligatory 5-speed, 175k miles. It was a bit pricier than I wanted to pay, but it was solid, and these don't seem to come available all that often in this combination. I'm sure most of you are aware of the qualities of this truck, but just to recap; 7.3L turbodiesel, 425 lb-ft of torque, seats 5-6, hauls about anything you want, tough, simple(ish) compared to more modern vehicles, looks good, reliable, and high teens for mileage if you play nice. The downsides are its shear size, turning radius, a bit loud, and not exactly nimble, especially when compared to my 4runner. It won't be a DD, or even a town car. I have my '70's schwinn for those tasks.

It's pretty solid overall, needs a few cosmetic issues taken care of (front/rear bumpers are bend, bed has a nice crumple by the rear bumper), and the suspension and steering are both quite tired like every used vehicle on the planet. It needs some standard maintenance to begin with such as fluids/filters, extra glow plug relay, extra CPS of course. It just got two new Sears Die-Hard platinum batteries ($$) so I'm good for a while on that front. I will probably run through the entire suspension/steering/braking system over the course of this summer. I picked up a FWC grandby (84 I believe) in fair shape about a week after the truck that is going to need some work as well. Pic below shows its maiden voyage as ski chalet for me and 3 friends up to an Eldora powder day. Pay no mind to the ratchet straps holding it down, still working on a more permanent solution.



The Plan:
Lots of exploring, camping, road tripping, fishing, maybe a long trip far north or far south with climbing and surfing involved. Since the suspension is tired, I might as well set it up the way I like. My 4runner has Icon suspension, and it has spoiled me quite a bit and set the standard for all future vehicles I own. Obviously this is a big heavy pig compared to the 4runner, but I would like to set it up with similar rough road suspension prowess. I am planning on 35" tires w/ 3.55 gears to get the cruising RPM down, as it will probably spend a lot of it's time on the highway and this motor is a torque monster. The big question as always with these things is how to deal w/ the infamous D50 TTB up front. Most say D60, some say coilover w/ radius arms, I'm not convinced either way.

The D60 is appealing because it's bolt in, tough, simple, and from what I hear rides quite nice w/ an RSK and super duty springs. The TTB has the advantage of being independent (I'm a big IFS fan) with great rough road ride w/ coils and radius arms. The downside is I need to do some custom fabrication, it's not quite as strong or simple as the D60, and I am a little apprehensive about what kind of bump travel I can get from it. My main issue is at stock height, there is only about 2" of bump travel, but I'm not sure if I can get away with much more than a 2-3" lift without mucking up my steering, camber, caster, etc. One large appeal of a coil sprung TTB is I should be able to shave the steering stops down a bit and gain a tighter turning radius. The factory turning radius of these trucks is abysmal, and makes it a bit unwieldy in tight spots to say the least.

Any input on what direction I should take the front suspension? I know the IFS vs SFA is an age old debate, but the D50 is a bit of an odd beast and a bit of an outlier. More pictures of truck and camper to come, as well as an update on front suspension options.


-Trevor

 

[Milo902]

So here are a few more pictures as it sits now:


I have emailed a few of the big TTB suspension fabricators about building radius arms to no avail, not sure if they are too busy or just not interested. I also got a quote from a local shop (boulder offroad), but it was approaching what I paid for the truck, so that's out. Local D60's are few and far between, and the only available now in a 3.55 are $1200 from a local JY. I figure after a you add in new tie rods, ball joints, RSK, & super duty front springs I could be approaching $2500. I don't have a huge issue spending the money, but I'm not completely sure it's the right path to take yet. For $1200, I think I will sit on it and keep an eye out for a better deal. The truck currently has 4.10's but it's geared wayyyy too low for highway driving.

Feeling dishartened about my low cost options, I went down to a salvage yard with a tape measure and ended up with the radius arms, mounts, coil buckets and sway bar from a 2000 F350 2wd. The radius arms are quite a bit longer than ford put on their 4x4's, the front mounting ears are wide enough to accept the TTB housing (although a little short for the TTB depth) and the rear mounts are bolt on. They look like a good option, I'm heading down to pick them up this weekend as they had to remove them from the truck. I still need to decide if I want to commit to this route, as installing the radius arms means cutting off the rear leaf spring mount on my frame, making it more difficult to reverse in the future if needed. Luckily my 4runner is in great shape and camping/road trip ready so I can take my sweet time deciding on a path with the truck.

-Trevor

 

[4x4junkie]

Looks like a clean truck. Nice score

I think you would like the ride of that TTB with coils/radius arms on it if you were to set it up correctly (should improve it a lot over with the leaf springs).
My only concern would be you're pushing the limits of those necked-down 30-spline shafts with the weight of such an already large truck + having the diesel sitting over it & 35" tires. If you don't plan on adding a front locker, it might work out OK for you. If a locker is in the works though, then I wouldn't waste any time whatsoever with the D50, get a D60.

'05up Ford D60s are already set up for coils/radius arms (and can often be found a little cheaper than the '86-'97 axles). Would help your ride out a lot (and your turning radius too) vs. using the older leaf-sprung D60, though it wouldn't quite be "bolt-in".
These axles are pure beef too (35-spline throughout with massive wheel bearings). Caveat is you'd have to swap it's matching rear in place of yours to match up the 8x170mm lug patterns (though that rear is also disc brake, so it's not without some benefits).

 

[truck mechanic]

i pick up a 97 sc, this winter, same as you i paid too much, but love the truck abd the 7.3. i only had the truck for two weeks and swaped in a d60. found it on craigslist for $600. took about a day to swap it in and pack my bearings and swap on the rotors and calpers from the 50. one of the best mods i have done on any of the trucks i had. if you can find one that way i would highly recomenbd the swap

 

[Milo902]

Thanks!

That's a good point about the weight, I weighed it a few weeks ago w/ the camper on, 1 1/2 tanks of gas, me and the dog inside.....7600 lbs! About 3750 lbs on the front axle and 3850lbs on the back axle. 50/50 weight distribution, it's practically a BMW!. I won't be using it as a wheeling truck because it's just too massive so no front locker in the plans, but it will be driven offroad in search of far out camping spots, lots of logging roads, and lots of washboard roads. With camping gear and a few friends I could easily see 4k lbs over that front axle, which has me a little worried about the longevity of the D50.

I looked into the 05+ swap, pretty sweet. Besides the price it comes w/ a few negatives including mixing and matching different year parts and new wheels, disk brakes all around would be pretty damn sweet. The main reason I'm turned off by this swap is all horror stories I keep hearing about the unit bearings failing, leaving you stranded, then w/ a huge repair bill. I believe the newer unit bearings are beefier, not sure if they are still an issue like the first gen super duties.

I'm certainly re-thinking the D50, maybe I'll return the radius arms to the JY, eat the 20% restock fee, and keep my eyes out for a cheap D60. I can never decide on these things! Difficult thing is keeping sight of my end goals; a tough, relatively simple, reliable exploration rig that does well on long rough dirt roads in the middle of nowhere, and it's hard to argue against a leaf sprung D60 given those criteria, but I'll sure try!

-Trevor

 

[redthies]

Hi Trevor,

Nice truck! I just sold my 97 F350 7.3 to replace it with a dually due to camper weight. Loved the 350. You might want to pm Shiryas (Chris) if you want a D60. Last I heard he was putting a super duty rolling chassis under his 97 F350. He might have an axle to sell. He lives in Parachute, so not super far from you. I bought a Sky off road shackle reversal from him, and he is a great guy. There are quite a few guys in the Grand Junction area on here with F350s.

 

[Shiryas]

You talking bout me Willis?

My buddies kind of got caught up in their race truck and bailed on both weekends they were supposed to help me this fall:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fire-Guys-Racing/217707728319231

I have the 05 axles all rebuilt with gears, TrueTrac's, BJ's, UJ's, tires & wheels. This weekend I am heading out to Moab for my first dirt bike ride on my first motorcycle at the spry young age of 42, good thing its a KTM 450 XCW Six Days (go easy on the throttle old man) and I really wish my truck which is hauling me out there was DONE with this swap. The weather is warming up and it is time to tear into the "Schule Bus" as my neighbor calls it .

Milo, nice truck. I looked for the OBS 250's but could not find any and I had concerns (unjustified) with the TTB D50. While the leaf version leaves a lot to be desired, converting it to coils has been done and can be done with minimal fab type skills. (Spring buckets, Coils for 05+, and base's for the axle) Baja F250 has an awesome set up (this is just too much fab work for me)

http://bajaf250.com/ (THIS SITE ONLY WORKS WITH EXPLORER)

The D60 is just so much easier for most, especially when combined with good a good leaf spring set up (RSK or 99+) and quality shocks. I was heading down this road when I stumbled onto a 'roller' 07 frame and axles for a good price and dove into the shallow end. (How much my head hurts will depend on the first test drive).

The D60 and Sterling 10.25" will be for sale along with ALL the bits and pieces needed for someone to swap them into a TTB 150 or 250 and Bronco including the Alcoa's, springs, swaybars, Panhard and brackets. They are 4.10's. (PM if your interested)

There is a lot of good information here, keep looking and learning.

Cheers, Chris

 

[redthies]

You talking bout me Willis?

Why yes I am! Speak of the deveel:elkgrin:

Enjoy the Katoom! I'm getting old now at 44, so I'll leave all that daredevil stuff to you young punks... Or at least until I get another bike!

 

[Milo902]

That will be a great truck w/ the newer suspension underneath. I'm jealous. As much as I really like the idea of the TTB, I can't help but feel a simple and tough D60 is more appropriate for this truck. Problem is I saw Dust to Glory last night, now I want to go race the baja 1000, I may just have to buy an old bronco to get my TTB fix and fiddle with that. This weekend I will have a set of longer radius arms that would make a great upgrade to the D44 under a bronco.

You will be getting PM regarding that front axle.

 

[bftank]

welcome to the crewcab club! yours looks great.

i vote that you use one of these two dana 60s in boulder, for $800, and keep the 410s and go up to a 35. rsk and superduty springs can be done down the road. as can 3.54s. this will get you a solid setup faster and cheaper, especially if you do not have the means to fabricate.

http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/3659091377.html

i can keep a lookout for 60s up here for you as well if you are willing to travel that far.

i do make trips to denver and craig on occasion and can haul stuff over there for you if need be.

 

[pappawheely]

Nice truck. The one I am building is similar but a F350. I plan on going with some custom leafsprings from National Spring and some FOX shocks to get my truck to handle well in the dirt. Never considered using dirty hooker travel. :sombrero:

 

[Milo902]

I was eying those D60's for a while, but held off due to them being incomplete and 4.10. I may spring on a 4.10 axle for the time being, and swap out the R&P to 3.55 in the future if I still feel the need after going to 35's. I PM'd Shiryas about his 4.10 as it is more complete so that is an option as well. I assume for the swap I need the complete axle, tie rods & drag link and the panhard/trackbar and mount? I have also heard rumors of the DS and/or transfer case yolk being required.

Do any of you D60 owners run sway bars on the front or rear of your truck? I don't have either on my truck. It seems fine for the little bit I've been driving it, but I wonder if I may miss them when loaded down on a twisty mountain road. I just want to get the little details figured out before I spring on an axle as those bits add up quickly if you need to buy them separately.

-Trevor

 

[4x4junkie]

The main reason I'm turned off by this swap is all horror stories I keep hearing about the unit bearings failing, leaving you stranded, then w/ a huge repair bill. I believe the newer unit bearings are beefier, not sure if they are still an issue like the first gen super duties.

The '99-'04 SD axles did have unit-bearing problems, particularly with wider-offset wheels. The '05up axles are holding up a lot better, and seem to have garnered some respect from hardcore rockcrawler types even. I wouldn't be worried about them myself (especially with comparatively-small 35" tires and wheels that are fairly close to stock offset).

 

[surlydiesel]

I would lean towards the 60 swap or go with 05 and up axles as others have said. I had a SD springs on my 95 350 and it made quite a difference in ride quality and fresh springs in the rear was like night and day. Keep the 4.10's, once you put your 35's on there, you'll find you can cruise around 70 just fine. How much faster do you need to go in a 8000 pound rig??? Also, if you leave the 4.10's you can go up to 37's really easily. Just saying.
-jorge

 

[Milo902]

Well the 05+ is certainly tempting, Denver Affordable Auto Parts claims they can get the front & rear axles plus the other parts needed for the swap (in any factory gear ratio you so desire) for about 2k. Add to that the cost of new wheels, tires (I assume the new wheels are 17" or bigger?), and some other nickel and dime type stuff to adapt the new setup, and you could be at 4k real quick. Plus I figure I would want to give the front axle a refresh (BJ, tie rods, etc.), new shocks, etc. and now were talking up to 5k. Not a totally fair comparison as I will be putting tie rods, ball joints, pads, rotors, tires, shocks and springs all around regardless of what direction I go.

The more I think about it, I keep coming back to a D60 w/ super duty springs and quality shocks. I just keep thinking what is going to be the best compromise of on/off road handling, reliability, and cost ---> D60. I think I may just have to pick up a bronco as a play toy to get my go-fast TTB fix as they are plentiful and dirt cheap, best of both worlds!

I'm still torn on the 4.10 vs 3.55 debate. 4.10 would probably be ok w/ 35's. I don't see myself going bigger on tires, as I would go w/ the precision metal fab RSK, which is only 2.5" of lift. I like my vehicles to sit as low as possible while maintaining a decent amount of bump travel. I would think if you go much over 35 than some serious bumper/fender trimming would be in order, but i'm new to these trucks so I have no real idea.

Oh, and out here i find myself on a lot of empty straight highway between destinations with 75mph speed limits, so being able to cruise at 70-80 comfortably w/ decent mileage is definitely a plus. Using some online calculators I should see about 1800-1900 rpm on the highway with 35's and 3.55 gears at 75mph, which is just when boost rolls on.

-Trevor