Moody Raider

CharlieNorth

Well-known member
I have an '86 Dodge Raider that has till recently been absolutely reliable. In the 35 years I have owned it, it has primarily been a yard truck/ snow plow. Half a year ago while plowing it decided to shut off. I found it could idle so I was able to back up into the yard. Having gone through the carb and checked all sorts of stuff from the tank forward, it will sometimes reluctantly start with a prime and sometime settle down to idle for a few minutes. Spark is good.
I have run an electric fuel pump as well as the factory diaphragm pump. not Much difference.

Carb has been apart a few times, no defects detected.
Denso iridium plugs as all my vehicles run.

Might be time to swap in my turbo motor from my '87 Montero.

This has me truly frustrated which is not common.
Heck it had no problem clearing this snow,
 

CharlieNorth

Well-known member
I am pretty sure I have eliminated the ignition as the issue.
I am at wits end with the carb. When this wants to run, it might only idle for 10-15 seconds. Generally needs a prime to start.
Then it will fire up and with coaxing accept throttle and run at 2500-3K for a few minutes.
My mind tells me to pull it apart again, But I have done so twice now.

Rummaging I have dug up, if I recall a Pinto Weber that I ran on one of my colts for 35+ years. It is on my workbench and with many days of rain coming I will freshen it to try.

And the next step, I gave a good look at my turbo converted Montero. I think it just might be easier to swap that engine in. The wire harness is essentially an un-modified Starion system with a plug & play adapter harness I made back in the winter of 88. Only change I will make will be to weld up a U shape tube to connect the turbo outlet direct over the valve cover to the TB. No need to fit the intercooler on a yard truck.
Probably take me less time to swap than to fix the carb.
 

CharlieNorth

Well-known member
Humm, the carb I pulled out of storage has a smaller mounting pattern, the time it will take to clean and service that carb and machine up an adaptor plate I can be close to lifting the turbo motor out of my other G1.
 
Have you tried rigging up a external pump out of a container to rule out issues with your fuel tank, fuel lines, fuel filter, emissions/charcoal canister/etc?
 

CharlieNorth

Well-known member
Yes, electric pump has been on awhile, installed it years back when the in tank pickup was rotted. A decent fuel pickup was installed 5 years back and visually checked last week. I bought a new Hyundai Pickup back in the winter but it has gone into hiding. Today I crawled under it looking at all the plumbing, I think this is the cleanest Gen 1 in the northeast. There is no rust other than some sandblasted areas with surface rust. Dang frustrating.
One thing I have not done is to install the electric pump right at the tank, but the factory engine pump is drawing fuel fine as tested a few hours ago.
 
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Yes, electric pump has been on awhile, installed it years back when the in tank pickup was rotted. A decent fuel pickup was installed 5 years back and visually checked last week. I bought a new Hyundai Pickup back in the winter but it has gone into hiding. Today I crawled under it looking at all the plumbing, I think this is the cleanest Gen 1 in the northeast. There is no rust other than some sandblasted areas with surface rust. Dang frustrating.
One thing I have not done is to install the electric pump right at the tank, but the factory engine pump is drawing fuel fine as tested a few hours ago.
Any chance it has a bad fuel cap and let water in? Have you popped the tank access out and taken a peek inside the tank for rust or sediment recently? You could also try removing the fuel supply and putting it in a clear container, then force the fuel pump on for 20-30 seconds and observe the flow and check the container for any debris. It does sound like a frustrating issue, but I'm sure you'll get it worked out.
 

CharlieNorth

Well-known member
I have not detected actual water but I get a brown dust with the fuel which is obviously rust. The bottom of the float bowl is brown, it does not plug filters.
With the electric pump I drained the tank before pulling the pickup last week, no visual water but I do feel I had some when it started warming up from winter. I have a fair bit of Isopropal added, was lapse with that for a year or so.
We have a few days of rain coming, I think I would be best I pull the carb and try to find something in it.

Yesterday I gave my turbo Montero a good look over, I had made an adapter harness under the instrument panel to mate to the un-modified Starion harness. Should swap over easy if that is the way to go.
I also have a 2.4 in a 93 Mighty Max not being utilized, I would need to scrounge up a 7 bolt flywheel to swap it. That might take more time for the wires.
One thing I really like about the 2.6 though, snow plowing up against a loose stack stone wall I can push a full blade of snow at 4-500 rpm. I do not know of any small engine that provides usable power down that low.
 

CharlieNorth

Well-known member
Humm, one part just came to mind, The tiny filter screen in the inlet before the needle & seat.
When Ethanol showed up here I had problems with them on the dual carbs in my 72 Colt. Took me awhile to figure it out then since it would be one carb that would plug.
Since we have a source on Non E gas we use that now but if we have to use more than a few gallon of Ethanol fuel we carry fuel with us for our return home.
That tiny filter might have plugged up with silt from the tank.
 

CharlieNorth

Well-known member
I won, Not sure how I won or what truly was wrong. I fiddled a bit with external lines and wires, nothing.
Drained the coolant and pulled the carb, went after the fuel inlet, There is notstinking inlet screen in this one. Might have had one in the past.
I started with spraying cleaner though all the circuits, jets everything. Flushed out the float bowl, there is more red/brown debris on the bottom of the chamber that last time it was in there. I sprayed cleaner every circuit I could find, No alarms but no OMG that just cleaned out.
Once back together I bolted the carb on, did not bother with coolant hoses or T cable. Put the electric pump back in service if anything to prime the system,

Turned the key on to give it a prime And a shot of starting fluid and it settled down to idle. Ran it a few minutes but no more since there is no coolant. Decided it would be a shot of Sambuca for this one.

Went back out, hooked up the Tcable, coolant hoses and filled the radiator. Fired it up and it ran and drove like there was nothing wrong.

So I still have no clue what the problem was, not sure if the carb was off 3 or 4 times since the mid winter when It died,
Oh this feels good. Now I can back blade the driveway and I need to launch my Superboat so I can work on the trailer.
 

CharlieNorth

Well-known member
Yah, I went in there to flush the little basket filter, but did not find one. It is frustrating, I sprayed cleaner if not just to see if it flowed, I do not believe the accelerator pump worked, but it did when I sprayed cleaner, So did I fix it, must have, dang thing.
Nice thing after parking this, I got back to work on my airplane I am building and in the aft part of the fuselage was the box with the new fuel pickup for the gas tank, Now I can change the terminals on this new style Hyundai unit and install it, be nice to know how much fuel is onboard when it is below zero and I am plowing on the far side of my land.
 
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CharlieNorth

Well-known member
Update, This still will shut off when it chooses. It has spark according to my timing light, has fuel to the carb.
This thing still needs to be primed to start even though the choke and accelerator work.
Logic is to spend the money on a Spanish Weber kit. I do not care for carbs with the reverse pattern of primary/ secondary bores causing fouled plugs with the crazy low temps this needs to start up in. If I scrounge around I have other early factory carbs.

But I think I will pull this engine and swap my turbo engine in. Unless I forget something from the past it has been flawless over the decades. The automatic behind it has a full custom valve body that will let the engine lug down low. I also have a custom Torque converter that locks in somewhere in the 1500-1800 range.

While I am at the swap I need to swap the ARB diff out of the rear.
Might as well get all this custom driveline back in service in a good chassis.

Maybe I should get custom rear leafs swapped as well. The offer superb articulation for when I drive off the stone wall on our driveway.
 
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Did you make any progress on this? Would be a shame to do an engine swap if it's something simple.
Does it start right up with starting fluid without priming or choking it?
When it dies, does it smell or behave like it's rich or lean?
Possible it's getting too much fuel and flooding out?
Have you pulled the plugs recently, consistent color on them?
 

CharlieNorth

Well-known member
No true progress, did make me pour a whisky though.
I does want a prime to start, at least cold much of the time just dribble fuel down the center stud of the air filter, otherwise starting fluid works well.
I think it goes lean.
When priming with fuel it tends to foul #3 plug at a minimum. If it is in the mood to settle down and run it will clear the plugs. Plugs are Denso Iridium. All I run these days, be it the early style or the latest with the ultra tiny electrodes on each side of the gap.
Sometimes this only runs on prime, then it will settle to idle, for 30 sec then a min or two. When it dies it slows to a stall. It might then start and take throttle and run at 3K, then die. When it will idle I can move it in low range with no throttle, just creep along.

I wish this was like the old carbs with a sight glass for fuel level, nice to watch if the level drops. Most of my Colts have them.

I have a low pressure electric pump under the hood as well as the cam driven pump which is quite young. I am running Tygon 4040 hose, these are opaque yellow such that you and see flow, or air bubbles.
The electric pump will not come up to pressure and stop cycling whether it feeds the carb directly or feeds the engine pump when it draws from the tank. It will not shut off when you pinch off the outlet hose either, but it will shutoff when it draw out of a container. I would say it is talking, I just have not discovered what it is saying, yet.
 

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