Moby1 Going Out Of Business? Has Anyone Received A Deposit Return?

Waygoner

Observer
I've got to agree with you on the Antishanty website. I was hoping to see some good pics of the interior layout, undercarriage, etc. Nada....
 

JakeH

Adventurer
It’s not our thread to post in... Our thread is located here: https://expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/vorsheer-introducing-ourselves.206097/

Any issues with us should be taken up there. This thread is in regards to Moby1 (although you believe we are one in the same, so we suppose to you it doesn’t matter).
I sincerely believe this is the most courageous thing I've seen today, thank you for making an appearance! I post in threads I dont own all the time, feel free to do the same, a lot of folks would love to hear what you have to say.
 

mjhuberjr

New member
So I posted in this thread quite a while ago letting everyone know that the power has been shut off at Moby1. After that I've created a website https://www.moby1trailersutah.com to warn users of Moby1 in hopes that Moby1 would go under sooner rather than later. I never did report back. I have not received my deposit back from Moby1 and they have gone bankrupt Now it appears many think Vorsheer is the new Moby1.

I was a customer of Moby1 and am a customer of Vorsheer. In fact I was their first customer. That being said I can say Vorsheer IS NOT Moby1.

I went through a year of hell with Moby1, it was awful and to think I was one of the lucky ones who was only at it with Moby1 for a year. Losing my deposit to that scumbag was heart wrenching, knowing he spent it on some new motorcycle or to take his wife to Disney.

Anyway, like most of you, at first I was skeptical of Vorsheer. It was put to ease very quickly. To keep this short. Steve and I met during my investigation into Moby1. I knew how bad things were going from another employee at Moby1 who had quit when things were going downhill. I mentioned that I was still looking for a trailer and he mentioned his fabrication company was looking to fill the hole that Moby1 was leaving. We met several times as he was continuing to go finalize what Vorsheer was going to built. We would go over the CAD drawings and talk through a few things. That definitely put me at ease. He also didn't ask for a deposit up right away. It wasn't until we finalized everything and he was ready to order parts that we discussed the deposit.

Many people are weary of leaving a deposit and somewhere in one of these posts someone mentioned "Not having capital to build the trailers". That's not really a concern, it's part of bootstrapping a business. It's why we have kickstarter and other type services. Not everyone has means to be VC funded.

Some things to note about Vorsheer:

You can pay using PayPal, you can also use a Credit Card through PayPal. -Someone mentioned this doesn't cover what you buy from Vorsheer, that's false. It's covered both by PayPal and your CreditCard company.
You are given a delivery date usually less than a month out.
They are upfront about delays and notify you if there are any.
They send pictures of progress and keep lines of communication open.
You get the product that you ordered

If you have concerns about Vorsheer, contact me, post in the other thread where they introduced themselves. Heck give their shop a call.
 

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shade

Well-known member
Maybe one of these days antishanty can build a website that showcase the actual product because it looks very well built and is definitely unique.

Instagram inspired websites are ridiculous. The scrolling features make it busy and difficult to navigate and WOW! a picture of a lake and mountain the camper must be great!! so stupid.
I couldn't agree more. I had a heck of a time tracking down details about the GFC camper because of that approach. Do the IG/FB thing, but keep a proper website up to date with detailed information.
 

Louisd75

Adventurer
The article, for posterity:

Owner of Utah County camping trailer business faces criminal charges
By Pat Reavy, KSL | Posted - Jul 26th, 2019 @ 5:45pm
5

SPRINGVILLE — The owner of a Utah County camping trailer business has been charged with pocketing insurance money and selling a trailer he was supposed to repair for a customer.

Benjamin Ashley Grimes, 46, of Springville, was charged Friday in 4th District Court with theft by deception, selling or buying without identification numbers, and fraudulent alteration of an identification number, all second-degree felonies.

In 2015, a man who lives in Homer, Alaska, "placed an order for an extreme camping trailer manufactured at the Moby1 Expedition Trailer manufacturing" at 221 W. 900 North, in Springville.

In 2017, the Alaska resident traveled to Springville and took possession of his camper. But just a few weeks later, the camper was involved in an accident in California, according to charging documents. The man took the camper trailer back to Moby1 to have repairs made.

An insurance settlement of more than $20,000 was then sent to Grimes to perform repairs on the trailer, according to the charges. Instead, prosecutors say Grimes "failed to return the repaired trailer, and the funds were not returned to" the owner or the insurance company.

"He ordered his employees to detach the upper teardrop cargo part of the trailer from the frame and place that cargo part on another frame and (Grimes) sold that trailer as new to another unidentified customer. (Grimes) took the VIN number tags from (the) original trailer frame, which were stickers, and proceeded to remove the numbers off the trailer frame with paint thinner," the charges state.

As of Friday, the Alaska owner "has never had his trailer returned to him or received the proceeds from his insurance claim settlement," according to the charges.

In March, the Alaska trailer owner filed a lawsuit against Moby1, Grimes and his wife. In the lawsuit, the owner states he was diagnosed with terminal cancer and the trailer was going to be his way of spending his "remaining time of good health on the road camping and visiting family."

But despite numerous calls, the man said Grimes never called him back.

He ordered his employees to detach the upper teardrop cargo part of the trailer from the frame and place that cargo part on another frame and (Grimes) sold that trailer as new to another unidentified customer.–Charges

"The defendants have not responded to (the man's) numerous attempts at communication since Nov. 3, 2018," the lawsuit states. "During the approximately two years that (his) travel trailer has been in the defendants’ possession, (the man's) health has deteriorated. (He) is no longer able to remain away from his home for periods longer than approximately two weeks. Due to defendants’ failure to complete their obligations … (the man) was and will be unable to spend his remaining time of good health traveling and visiting family."

On the Better Business Bureau website, there are seven people who have filed complaints about Moby1 dating back to 2017, most stating that they made down payments but had not received their trailers.

In March, Moby1, Grimes and his wife filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy, according to federal court records.

The Utah Division of Consumer Protection filed a complaint against Moby1 in August, according to court documents. The division accused Moby1 of not delivering products when it said it would, and "misrepresented consumers' rights to obtain refunds," the lawsuit states.
 

Grabow

Adventurer
I have a question that may be slightly off topic because it doesn't really involve Moby1 (or Voorsheer), but it does involve advance deposits and potentially losing them.
I'm looking at purchasing a custom travel trailer from a small outfit. The wait time for the trailer is 6 months, and a $5K deposit is required upfront to secure the build spot, as well as for purchasing/building to my custom requirements (appliances, axels, fabric, custom paint , etc.)
If I put the deposit on a credit card, I would only have 60 days to dispute the charge. Obviously this would offer no protection because the delivery/pick up date isn't for six months. If I make the deposit through Paypal, I don't believe it would be covered because Paypal specifically excludes coverage on "recreational vehicles", which technically includes travel trailers.
Other than putting the deposit in an escrow account, which won't work because the deposit money (or at least a portion of it) is actually used to purchase build materials, does anyone here know of a way to protect my deposit money?
 

opp

Observer
Have them do frame first then get tile there be no more than $ 1000 to do . get it insured for theft That is what got one taken down take pictures . beware there a few have learn not that hard to do a rip off
 
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Grabow

Adventurer
That's actually a pretty good idea, thanks.
I think they'll still require the full deposit, but if I can get the paperwork for the trailer as soon as the frame is finished, then I could technically insure it.
The collective knowledge in these forums is invaluable, and much appreciated.

Just in case that approach doesn't work, anyone else have suggestions?
 

opp

Observer
What the gang did dose .As long as it a depots it's a civil mater . With plate them it a crime
 

fireball

Explorer
Who is the builder and what is their draw schedule like?

Do they have an escrow account they hold deposits in?

You also might want to get an AMEX card, our corporate AMEX doesn't have a 60 day dispute period limit like you mention above.
 

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vintageracer

To Infinity and Beyond!
Don't spend any more Moohlah than you can afford to LOSE!

$5K deposit UPFRONT with a 6 month wait is BS!

This indicates a completely underfunded operation. Run don't walk away from this bunch! I don't give a damn how good or well known they are.

IF you are gambler and still want to play THIS BUILDER'S DEPOSIT GAME I suggest you offer these terms:

Offer $500 deposit to guarantee your place in line in the build sequence giving you an estimated beginning build time for the start of your build with a specific exit date that you can demand the return of your $500 deposit no questions asked if the builder has not started the build of your trailer as outlined below. A that point when the builder is ready to begin the build of your trailer pay no more than $1K or less additional deposit until the builder can provide to you pictures of your legal chassis, a VIN number attached, a copy of their issued MSO with VIN number stated (Manufacturer's Statement of Origin) for your chassis and a purchase contract signed by both parties purchase contract outlining your responsibilities as the buyer for payment/performance to the builder at specific points of completion during the build and the builders responsibilities to you concerning the trailer build specifications and delivery timeline for your completed trailer.

If the builder does not want to agree to YOUR terms. Find another builder!

You are not going to be able to insure any chassis even if you have the VIN number as you will not have an insurable interest in the trailer at this point. There is no way a builder is going to give you a clear title to the trailer chassis until the build is complete and you have completely paid for the trailer/chassis. You have to have an insurable interest (Ownership) in the trailer to be able to bind insurance coverage and that is something the builder will not give you until the bill for the trailer is paid in full.

You still might get screwed doing the above however this at least limits your downside and gives you and the builder specific rights should the deal go bad. It works both ways!
 
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Uncle Jeffy

New member
I recommend calling your credit card company and giving them the details. I did that with Amex before I put a deposit on a custom trailer in mid 2017, before the Inka and Moby disasters, to avoid those very scenarios. My builder even said they would charge extra to put it on a card, but when I said I was treating it as consumer protection insurance he saw the logic.

I was very clear with Amex, as in "So to be clear, if the company goes bust before I get my trailer, even if is several months after I place my deposit, the credit card will protect me?" They said yes, the time limit is from delivery or if I never get delivery, not from the date of payment. I'm glad I never needed to use it, but it gave me peace of mind. And yes, it was not more than I could afford to lose anyway.

I agree that finding another builder with better terms would be ideal, but if no one else can deliver exactly what you want, you will have to compromise somewhere.
 
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