Minimum EV Range Requirement for Touring Western U.S.

[WOODY2]

Manufacturers mileage numbers are not a true measure for me, I'm concerned about offroad numbers. ICE seem to get 50% less mpg so really is 100 to 175 miles enough to work considering the need to reach a charging station as well? Interested in discussion on true viability of EV's.

 

[Martinjmpr]

IMO range is not as important as (1) speed of charging and (2) availability of chargers.

Right now we think of a "charging station" the same way we might think of a gas station. We subconsciously ASSUME that an EV charging station will look like a gas station.

But a gas station looks like it does because of the unique requirements of liquid petroleum. They have to be big enough to accommodate storage tanks and the big tankers that fill those tanks. They have to be placed in areas where their highly flammable and potentially environmentally hazardous materials can be safely stored and dispensed. All that means that they have to be big enough to sell enough gasoline (as well as the other, sundry items that they actually make a good profit on) and stay in business.

An EV charging station doesn't need to look anything like a gas station. Any place with electricity can, in theory, host an EV charging station. There isn't even a reason an EV charging station needs to have an employee on duty.

An EV charging station could be a huge parking lot with 200 charging stations, or it could be a small convenience store with 5 chargers. Or better yet, a restaurant: What better way to drive business to your restaurant located in a small town than to put a dozen EV chargers out front. People need to charge their cars? "Hey, here's a station, let's plug in. Hmmm...I'm hungry, where can a person get a bite to eat? "

Small towns could put charging stations in front of the public library or the police station or the city hall. Grocery stores could put banks of EV chargers in their parking lot, and get people to think "hey, as long as I'm stopping here to charge the car, I might as well get my grocery shopping done."

Let's take a concrete example: White Rim Trail in Utah. From pavement-to-pavement it's around 120 miles, which is within the range of most EVs. Imagine a charging station at the RV campground at US 191 and UT 313. You could "top off" your EV there, run WRT and still make it back there to the same location.

Another point, the "environmental impact" of an EV charging station is much less than that of a gas station. So the Park Service could put a big EV charging parking lot at the visitor's center. They probably wouldn't even have to pay for it, rather, the power companies would be happy to install it because of the money they'd make from it (I'm assuming some kind of credit-card swipe or maybe just your EV has your credit card data already in it and when it plugs into the power grid, the power company knows who to charge.)

 

[calicamper]

IMO range is not as important as (1) speed of charging and (2) availability of chargers.

Right now we think of a "charging station" the same way we might think of a gas station. We subconsciously ASSUME that an EV charging station will look like a gas station.

But a gas station looks like it does because of the unique requirements of liquid petroleum. They have to be big enough to accommodate storage tanks and the big tankers that fill those tanks. They have to be placed in areas where their highly flammable and potentially environmentally hazardous materials can be safely stored and dispensed. All that means that they have to be big enough to sell enough gasoline (as well as the other, sundry items that they actually make a good profit on) and stay in business.

An EV charging station doesn't need to look anything like a gas station. Any place with electricity can, in theory, host an EV charging station. There isn't even a reason an EV charging station needs to have an employee on duty.

An EV charging station could be a huge parking lot with 200 charging stations, or it could be a small convenience store with 5 chargers. Or better yet, a restaurant: What better way to drive business to your restaurant located in a small town than to put a dozen EV chargers out front. People need to charge their cars? "Hey, here's a station, let's plug in. Hmmm...I'm hungry, where can a person get a bite to eat? "

Small towns could put charging stations in front of the public library or the police station or the city hall. Grocery stores could put banks of EV chargers in their parking lot, and get people to think "hey, as long as I'm stopping here to charge the car, I might as well get my grocery shopping done."

Let's take a concrete example: White Rim Trail in Utah. From pavement-to-pavement it's around 120 miles, which is within the range of most EVs. Imagine a charging station at the RV campground at US 191 and UT 313. You could "top off" your EV there, run WRT and still make it back there to the same location.

Another point, the "environmental impact" of an EV charging station is much less than that of a gas station. So the Park Service could put a big EV charging parking lot at the visitor's center. They probably wouldn't even have to pay for it, rather, the power companies would be happy to install it because of the money they'd make from it (I'm assuming some kind of credit-card swipe or maybe just your EV has your credit card data already in it and when it plugs into the power grid, the power company knows who to charge.)

Number one issue with EV charging is infrastructure ie power to the location. Its a huge issue not openly discussed by charging station owners/companies. Electrify America is actually VWs charging network company. They recently partnered withTesla to buy site batteries to address the issue of infrastructure problems.

EV charging stations will look more like gas stations in the future where battery banks are charged via limited infrastructure capacity which then supply the higher power dump ability to the EVs.

 

[T-Willy]

IMO range is not as important as (1) speed of charging and (2) availability of chargers.

Well, the importance of range increases as the availability of fast chargers decreases. In my region there are (and will continue to be) very few chargers, let alone fast chargers. Also key, same story: Can I take my EV truck to remote beaches in Baja?

Range, range, range.

But, even beyond the problem of charging station availability, I just like vehicles with a lot of range. Range anxiety sucks. I like self-supported touring; long routes untethered to other humans and their towns. My 92 Land Cruiser has dual tanks; I've gone 730 miles without refilling. It's glorious.

So, my use case, by my conservative estimate, requires an EV truck with 500-600 miles of reasonably loaded dirt-road range. I'm eager to make the switch to EV, but it must fit my use case.

What's yours?

 

[calicamper]

Well, the importance of range increases as the availability of fast chargers decreases. In my region there are (and will continue to be) very few chargers, let alone fast chargers. Also key, same story: Can I take my EV truck to remote beaches in Baja?

Range, range, range.

But, even beyond the problem of charging station availability, I just like vehicles with a lot of range. Range anxiety sucks. I like self-supported touring; long routes untethered to other humans and their towns. My 92 Land Cruiser has dual tanks; I've gone 730 miles without refilling. It's glorious.

So, my use case, by my conservative estimate, requires an EV truck with 500-600 miles of reasonably loaded dirt-road range. I'm eager to make the switch to EV, but it must fit my use case.

What's yours?

Your 92 LC must be very different than my 4spd 93 because 730 miles of range would have been 70 gallons of fuel which is well over 500lbs of fuel which the J80 wasn’t really super happy being heavy especially in hot places. I hated that things lousy range. Which is why my Subaru typically got tagged for the adventure trips. 490-520 mile range was easily possible if needed. Definitely made the trips way more fun and did far more “lets see where this goes detours”

Current adventure rig has done 500+ miles easily (2019 Expedition heavy tow) all of these are non modified stock vehicles. My max range winner! Is the 2005 SLK350 no joke it can run 600+ if you want max range. Typical 85-90mph range is 400 miles?. Your LC must be diesel.

 

[T-Willy]

Your 92 LC must be very different than my 4spd 93 because 730 miles of range would have been 70 gallons of fuel which is well over 500lbs of fuel which the J80 wasn’t really super happy being heavy especially in hot places. I hated that things lousy range. Which is why my Subaru typically got tagged for the adventure trips. 490-520 mile range was easily possible if needed. Definitely made the trips way more fun and did far more “lets see where this goes detours”

Current adventure rig has done 500+ miles easily (2019 Expedition heavy tow) all of these are non modified stock vehicles. My max range winner! Is the 2005 SLK350 no joke it can run 600+ if you want max range. Typical 85-90mph range is 400 miles?. Your LC must be diesel.

I'm sorry, I mistyped -- it was 630 unloaded, mostly highway miles, with the typically terrible mileage of a well-tuned 3FE. There were a few gallons to spare, but that still averages, I think, in the 13 or 14 mpg range, which is both dreadful and why I look forward to long-range capable EV trucks.

 

[T-Willy]

And then, behold:

The Revolutionary Atlis XP Modular Electric Platform - Expedition Portal

Atlis Motor Vehicles have introduced a modular electric platform known as the XP with a wheelbase of 144 inches and bolt-on and drive-off

expeditionportal.com

"...The vehicle will have a base that boasts four independent PMSM (permanent magnet synchronous motors), a 10,000-pound load rating per axle, 12-inch ground clearance (increased with tall tires), 600-plus horsepower, steer by wire with four-wheel independent steering, a range of 500 miles, and a claimed charge time of 15 minutes (0-100% with an Atlis 1.5 MW charger)."

But, we'll see.

 

[Martinjmpr]

WRT overlanding, I wonder if what we would see with EVs is people carrying auxiliary generators (yes, and the fuel to power them) so as to extend their range?

How small and fuel efficient COULD you make a gas or diesel generator and still have enough power to recharge an EV? I don't know how many amps a modern EV needs to get an efficient charge. But I could see a small generator taking the place of multiple gas cans (and of course, you'd still need the gas cans, too, although depending on the efficiency of the generator, you might not need as many of them.)

 

[Todd n Natalie]

IMO range is not as important as (1) speed of charging and (2) availability of chargers.

 

[calicamper]

WRT overlanding, I wonder if what we would see with EVs is people carrying auxiliary generators (yes, and the fuel to power them) so as to extend their range?

How small and fuel efficient COULD you make a gas or diesel generator and still have enough power to recharge an EV? I don't know how many amps a modern EV needs to get an efficient charge. But I could see a small generator taking the place of multiple gas cans (and of course, you'd still need the gas cans, too, although depending on the efficiency of the generator, you might not need as many of them.)

Most modern portable generators are good for about 12-14kwh per gallon of gas (gasoline being the most energy dense fuel other than diesel small diesel generators are not happening ?) Generator size simply affects how long it takes to produce that kwh power.

All modern EVs can be throttled ie amp pull set manually to avoid blowing up breaker switches on low rated circuits. Even my 2016 7kwh battery plug-in hybrid has this. A 15 amp standard house plug is a solid 3+hour charging effort for 18-20 mile range. My 3500 watt 90lb generator used to power my 2600 sqft house has a max 25amp limit. 98% of the time my house pulls between 12-18amps with home office in use, lights, fans, air purifiers, etc. Short spikes typically no more than 30 minutes long are heavy pull items like microwave, hair dryer, full sized clothes washer which will peak our total load around 21-22amps.

The typical EV can do 30 miles of charge per hour on a 50amp feed. Todays fast chargers with appropriate infrastructure can feed 180 or more amps! Which case EV battery temps and battery design is the limiting factor in how much power they can absorb not the charger. However!! Very few chargers have a power drop that can support 180+ amps especially multiple charger charge stations.
No you won’t see EV owners intentionally hauling generators to charge up Adventure EVs which all likely will be running 100+kwh batteries. If anything your going to see lots of hybrid rigs on the remote trips which double as an efficient daily driver when not on long trips. My plugin car does around 40mpg gas mileage on long trips. Local driving where gas engine use is near zero ie all EV use its life time 80,000 mile average is 62mpg gas use. EV mileage I don’t track given it sits on my 7 yr old solar power system which was break even cost vs savings after 3 yrs. I have had 4 yrs of free power and free local trip car fuel. Right now 5 days a week the EV hauls my kids around town to tennis and swim practice not a drop of gas burned. If my Ford Expedition had this ability when I bought I would have bought that model.
Road trips with hybrids? Mehh open highway hybrid does nothing for mileage. Road trips with spots of heavy traffic hybrid tech definitely increases range.
Will I get a full EV? Hell yes! But it won’t be a road trip adventure rig. It will be a local region vehicle with rare trips where an overnight charger is available. Example sub 200
Mile air bnb trip where the EV gets to sit at the vacation rental on a charger over night etc.

 

[Boatbuilder79]

WRT overlanding, I wonder if what we would see with EVs is people carrying auxiliary generators (yes, and the fuel to power them) so as to extend their range?

How small and fuel efficient COULD you make a gas or diesel generator and still have enough power to recharge an EV? I don't know how many amps a modern EV needs to get an efficient charge. But I could see a small generator taking the place of multiple gas cans (and of course, you'd still need the gas cans, too, although depending on the efficiency of the generator, you might not need as many of them.)

I did an expirimint and found that my cheap o 3500 watt home depot generator put 12 miles of range on my model 3 in An hour and used about 1/2 a gallon of gas.

I used the 30 amp 120 volt outlet on the generator and was able to charge at 24 amps.

 

[plh]

Even my 2016 7kwh battery plug-in hybrid has this.

What PHEV do you have?

 

[plh]

I did an expirimint and found that my cheap o 3500 watt home depot generator put 12 miles of range on my model 3 in An hour and used about 1/2 a gallon of gas.

I used the 30 amp 120 volt outlet on the generator and was able to charge at 24 amps.

Is the model 3 wall wort rated for 24A @120V AC? That is not a typical outlet output in a USA home.

 

[Boatbuilder79]

Is the model 3 wall wort rated for 24A @120V AC? That is not a typical outlet output in a USA home.

The wall wart will charge at 32 amps at 240 volts with the nmea 14-50 plug.
I used an adapter that split the hot leg of the 30 amp plug to both sides of the 14-50.

 

[Boatbuilder79]

This one on Amazon

Parkworld 885378 EV Adapter Cord NEMA TT-30P to 14-50R (ONLY for EV or Tesla use, NOT for RV ) (1.5FT)