MG Metalworks Radius Arm/Coil Spring Axle Conversion for E-series Vans
- Thread starter mgmetalworks
- Start date
GNTY
Adventurer
What are you installing it on? Are you converting your class c?
jblaze5779
Observer
Anyone have any prices yet? I already have half the stuff from my 2wd lift...
mk216v
Der Chef der Fahrzeuge
Backcountry Pursuit
Risk Taker
I'd love to chime in with how awesome my van is. But winter bit down hard here, it's about zero degrees outside, and there is a foot of snow built up where I need to roll around on the concrete to finish up the install. I'd give anything for a heated shop with a 12 foot door right about now.
Jsweezy
Explorer
Bummer! Hopefully you can catch a break...
Bikersmurf
Expedition Leader
You've got a shovel, right. What's stopping you from using it?
Been there... I completely understand. My timing cover on my Fj40 has rust spots on the inside of it where the snowflakes landed on it while I was finishing assembly. It's first drive, to the exhaust shop, was in the snow. It's shakedown trip was the worst snowstorm in 100 years.
Betarocker
Adventurer
I replaced my starter laying in 30cm of snow at -15C. Hope to never need to do that again.
Ranchero
Wanderer
I'll chime in a bit. I have about 1000 miles on my conversion so far. A good 1/3-1/2 of that was on snowy roads. I still have not installed a steering stabilizer nor a sway bar and it drives really well. It tracks perfectly straight. Rides really smoothly on the highway. It is a little bit rough on rough roads, but I think it is because I used the same springs that Josh and Michael used, sized for Josh's V10 and Michael's Cummins (Moog 880's?). I have a 5.4. I have a set of Moogs (878s) sitting in the garage that are about 10% softer that I'll install in the next few weeks. I'm sure that will do the trick. I'll take the slightly stiffer over the wallowy 2wd ride any day. There is some bump steer, but that is to be expected with a solid axle truck. I think that will be less of an issue once (if?) I install the sway bar and steering damper - it really isn't a big deal. I've already had an offer to buy my van for a good chunk more than I have into it - Michael's stuff looks factory! And those massive brakes! They are killer! Happy to answer any specific questions!
mk216v
Der Chef der Fahrzeuge
So I met up with Josh and Brian (drove my UJOR 6"/35s there, ARB front bumper w/ ComeUp winch, Bilstein 5100's, stock 13" '04 F350 4x4 front brakes), drove Josh's first (MG w/ coil springs front, 33s, stock front bumper w/o winch, Fox 2.0's, '13+ F350 14.3" front brakes). We drove on country roads, then a gravel road with quite a few potholes, then back on country roads to his house. Then I drove Brian's (UJOR w/ leaf springs front, 35s, Aluminess front bumper with (Warn? winch), Fox Factory 2.0's w/ remote reservoirs, UJOR RSC upgrade w/ 14.5" front brakes), same route. Then I drove Josh's again for a back-back-back test. The biggest thing I noticed was that Josh's felt smoother, lighter on its feet. The latter could be due to less unsprung weight (33s vs 35s, front coil springs which are much lighter than front leaf springs) and no heavy front bumper/winch. Tracked very straight on it's own, simple to drive. It just doesn't feel like a big van which what I appreciate most(not that Brian's does, it's just that Josh's feels less so). The suspension really swallowed up the potholes to where it didn't upset the van, or all of us inside. Brian's felt good too, but you could feel the chuckholes more, perhaps a bit more bounce/rebound after lots of potholes. Brian's was more work to track straight down the road--really had to manipulate the steering wheel continually to keep the van between the lines (**however, he was well aware of this as this had come about 3days after his Les Schwab alignment. So he went to MG's later and they re-torqued his track bar and it's remarkably improved he says). Brian's steering did feel a bit tighter and responsive though ('10 van w/ 50k vs Josh's '08 w/ 125k). I've noticed my '07 has a bit more steering wheel play before something occurs, but I think that's just because I'm used to very taut and precise German car steering, which is unfair to compare to a domestic truck. So maybe as the miles accumulate the steering gear just gets more play--makes sense if so.
Both rigs are very easy to drive, I love the V10 vs the diesel. You can actually have conversations in them! Much smoother off the line(although both had much more responsive throttle pedals. I forget which was more sensitive--Josh's maybe?).
Both brake extremely well and with confidence. I think this is due to not only larger rotors than mine, but also being gas engine and much better brake pedal feedback due to boosted assist.
I do appreciate how UJOR's leaf springs have components sitting up higher off the ground, vs the radius arms in MG's sitting a bit lower. However, there are aftermarket radius arms I'm looking into that should provide more clearance(I hope). And besides the feedback I mentioned above, the fact that 14.3" front brakes can come standard in the MG setup(if you get a '13+ front axle) is icing on the cake, vs UJOR requiring the $2900 RSC upgrade to get 14.5" front brakes. The architecture and componentry of MG's coil spring front is a bit newer technology than UJOR's leaf spring front, so perhaps that is part of the ride/feel too?
To recap, both MG and UJOR are incredible 4x4 kits. For the most precise comparison I think Josh's would need to have the same front bumper/winch, 35's, and Fox Factory reservoirs...then compare again.
brianjwilson
Some sort of lost...
That sounds like a pretty fair assessment. Last week I finally got my steering all worked out, it was handful of little things. I don't want to clog up this thread but it had to do with track bar and leaf spring alignment (push/pull effect), working out different torque values etc. I made several different adjustments, and went back to a tape measure alignment that always seems to work so much better for me on solid axle rigs. So much happier as mine finally tracks straight down the road like it should. Bumps and rough roads also feel much better, now that the front end is dialed in.
Having said that, mine and Josh's vans are similar configurations but there are pretty huge differences now, as Jeremy pointed out. Easily enough differences to effect ride and handling. My van is riding on 18x9 wheels with 4.5" backspacing, heavy 35x12.50 Cooper ST maxx tires, front bumper and winch, rear bumper with tire carrier and box, interior is insulated. Josh runs lower tire pressure, stock wheels, smaller tires, we're running different shocks. I think josh is using a steering damper right now while I'm not. Caster can be adjusted on Josh's while mine is fixed (3.8* on mine, not sure on Josh's). My van gained a lot of weight during my conversion, but again I'm running heavier tires, bumpers, winch, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if my van has 800lbs or more over Josh's.
But at the end of the day, they ARE both great setups. I had my mind set on a ujoint setup for quite a while, a very specific picture in my head and went with it. I wanted to pick and choose my components and have everything overhauled and sent as a complete kit. MG was just working out his setup as I was searching for my van, I drove his van before he pulled his engine and it felt great.
If I started a new build again, I wouldn't hesitate to run MG's setup. It is a very simple setup, very factory looking. There is definitely less weight, less bracketry, less work to install and setup. Obviously it would be easy to swap different springs to adjust ride height and spring rate. You can adjust caster more easily. I'm pretty sure MG is using a stock length pitman arm which should be more friendly with RSC, due to the steering angle sensor. RSC is still disabled on my rig (lots of dash lights and warning chimes) as it has always been too intrusive since the ujoint install. Though I'm not sure RSC wouldn't be annoying to me with either setup honestly. I would guess that I drive and corner faster than most of the 4x4 van crowd.
Having said that, mine and Josh's vans are similar configurations but there are pretty huge differences now, as Jeremy pointed out. Easily enough differences to effect ride and handling. My van is riding on 18x9 wheels with 4.5" backspacing, heavy 35x12.50 Cooper ST maxx tires, front bumper and winch, rear bumper with tire carrier and box, interior is insulated. Josh runs lower tire pressure, stock wheels, smaller tires, we're running different shocks. I think josh is using a steering damper right now while I'm not. Caster can be adjusted on Josh's while mine is fixed (3.8* on mine, not sure on Josh's). My van gained a lot of weight during my conversion, but again I'm running heavier tires, bumpers, winch, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if my van has 800lbs or more over Josh's.
But at the end of the day, they ARE both great setups. I had my mind set on a ujoint setup for quite a while, a very specific picture in my head and went with it. I wanted to pick and choose my components and have everything overhauled and sent as a complete kit. MG was just working out his setup as I was searching for my van, I drove his van before he pulled his engine and it felt great.
If I started a new build again, I wouldn't hesitate to run MG's setup. It is a very simple setup, very factory looking. There is definitely less weight, less bracketry, less work to install and setup. Obviously it would be easy to swap different springs to adjust ride height and spring rate. You can adjust caster more easily. I'm pretty sure MG is using a stock length pitman arm which should be more friendly with RSC, due to the steering angle sensor. RSC is still disabled on my rig (lots of dash lights and warning chimes) as it has always been too intrusive since the ujoint install. Though I'm not sure RSC wouldn't be annoying to me with either setup honestly. I would guess that I drive and corner faster than most of the 4x4 van crowd.
Pinnacle Campers
Chateau spotter
So when are you taking delivery of your new van? ��
Also surprised you didn't include observations of Vandiana on the same route.
brianjwilson
Some sort of lost...
That rig is also very different from Josh's. 35s, roof rack and tent, RB. Also that loud and heavy diesel which presents a much different driving experience.
