Matthewp's Off-Road Camper Design (Recommendations and Critiques Requested!).

[matthewp]

I have been floating around the issue of improving camping sleeping conditions for my wife over a year now (Kristy loves going out to the woods to experience nature but her one and only hold-up is the desire for a good sleeping platform). Finances finally allow me to get serious about it. I was in serious contemplation of a teardrop style trailer versus putting a custom camper on the back of a full-size truck (A la Earthroamer).

After weighing the pros and cons, we decided on a trailer. Our reasoning was my familiarity with trailers, the ability to "drop" our base-camp somewhere while we explore, and the cost issue of the build AND having to buy, register and insure another prime-mover. With that dilemma solved, I seriously sat down and designed the trailer. I had had an idea "sketched" in my head (and a few scribbles on paper) for the longest time. After doing a LOT of research on tnttt.com and other websites, to include this one, I finally hammered the design together.

I HAVE to give proper credit to Jim65wagon and his wife Elizabeth for their beautiful Crowswing (the realization of a few ideas in my head that they so wonderfully hammered out, in addition to the wonderful advice and recommendations Jim has given me on design), and Stomper XJ who had the exact shape I was looking for. I also have to thank each of them profusely for great build threads to walk a novice like me through the process. For anyone interested in building a "sleep-in" trailer, please take a gander: Jim & Elizabeth's Crowswing and Stomper's Sawtooth XL.

The basic planned specs are:

5' X 9' 6" trailer with room for a double mattress in the sleeping area.
Battery power with solar, shoreline, and tow-vehicle recharge.
12V and 110V capable
Marine refrigerator
30 to 35 gallons of water with electric water pump.
Awning with privacy enclosure on the curb side for showering, changing, etc.
10 gallons of extra fuel for the tow-vehicle and propane for our BBQ.

Please, I want your recommendations, critiques, etc. on how I can improve this design. Thank you! Forgive the prehistoric pencil & paper method of design:

 

[RLD]

that's a nice design there what will you build the body with i like it

 

[Titanpat57]

I think it's an instant classic, and a great design...but (I'll duck now! :Wow1

I think I'd utilize just a bit more real estate up front, and switch the angle of the metal from 45 degrees to 50...I know it makes it a bit longer, but I think you could put some other stuff up there also....just food for thought.

Good luck moving forward, it'll be nice to see the metal come together.

BTW..If you "hand drew" that..that's "old school" drafting...very impressive!! Nice lettering!!

 

[skersfan]

Mathew,

Some great ideas here.

I think you need to take a look at the sleeping area. If I have measured correctly, you will have less than 30 inches to set up when dressing and the like. I read that the floor will be raised 12 inches from the frame for storage and water and possible battery storage. Add the thickness of the floor, the second floor, mattress and the roof inside limits.

I have thought about the bottom for storage also, but due to my roof line I have problems with space for the door. After a year of being in mine almost every weekend, being able to set up and have head room is very important to me. I spend little time in it, but rainey days or snow, makes it nice to be able to move around easily. Remember that most available doors are 24/32 or 24/36. Unless you are making your own door. But smaller than 24/32 can be a real problem.

The fridge site, might be just a little small. I run a Waeco/Dometic 45 quart and it is over 22 inches long, your heigth is close if you are going to have a slider for it to pull out.

Bob

 

[skibum315]

To put a bit finer point on Bob's comment about 'head room' inside; I've spent some time in various backpacking and mountaineering tents ... it's amazing to me how much bigger even 4" of peak height can feel. I'd much rather go out in my mountaineering tent with ~48" of head room, than any of the lightweight backpacking tents I've used that have 42-44" of headroom. Makes it actually useable to change or 'hang out' for sitting around in bad weather.

Also: on the hatch seal, since it looks like you left yourself room, I'd consider adding a second bulb seal to the hatch (in addition to the one you've already got on the body) ... that way you could get at least partial areas of double sealing. Someone (like skersfan or TitanPat) more experienced than me can chime in on the actual necessity of that kind of feature; but it strikes my engineer's brain that if it's easy to incorporate, more sealing can never be a bad thing.

 

[jeep-N-montero]

How heavy are you expecting it to be and will the Liberty tow it SAFELY?

 

[matthewp]

that's a nice design there what will you build the body with i like it

Thank you. The frame will be hopefully be aluminum, but more likely steel, and the upper body will be a Birch plywood/rigid foam insulation sandwich.

I think I'd utilize just a bit more real estate up front, and switch the angle of the metal from 45 degrees to 50...I know it makes it a bit longer, but I think you could put some other stuff up there also....just food for thought.

I have thought about that but I'm "trying" to keep the body length shorter. I've pretty well figured it gives me all the room I need for stuff... But I'll probably come back and say, "Pat, I should have taken your advice!"

..If you "hand drew" that..that's "old school" drafting...very impressive!! Nice lettering!!

Thank you. The results of one semester of drafting in college.

I think you need to take a look at the sleeping area. If I have measured correctly, you will have less than 30 inches to set up when dressing and the like. I read that the floor will be raised 12 inches from the frame for storage and water and possible battery storage. Add the thickness of the floor, the second floor, mattress and the roof inside limits.

I have thought about the bottom for storage also, but due to my roof line I have problems with space for the door. After a year of being in mine almost every weekend, being able to set up and have head room is very important to me. I spend little time in it, but rainey days or snow, makes it nice to be able to move around easily. Remember that most available doors are 24/32 or 24/36. Unless you are making your own door. But smaller than 24/32 can be a real problem.

I ended up with 3 foot 9 inches from sleeper floor to the inside of the sleeper roof (obviously not subtracting for the mattress though). That was an issue I did a lot of pondering on, making sure there was enough room inside while trying to keep the trailer from being too tall for my likes. Do you think I should raise the roof up a little still? (I am actually planning for a 26X36 door!)

The fridge site, might be just a little small. I run a Waeco/Dometic 45 quart and it is over 22 inches long, your heigth is close if you are going to have a slider for it to pull out.

Bob

I'm planning on installing a Norcold DE-0751 Marine front-opening refrigerator, same as Jim65wagon is using in the Crowswing, therefore I will not be using a slider. I went off the manufacturer's dimensions (adding 1.5" to each for room) but I do have the feeling I will have to adjust when the actual fridge arrives! I'm planning to purchase anything that will affect the dimensions in the build in advance. I like the idea of being able to measure parts on-hand and test fit as I go along.

To put a bit finer point on Bob's comment about 'head room' inside; I've spent some time in various backpacking and mountaineering tents ... it's amazing to me how much bigger even 4" of peak height can feel. I'd much rather go out in my mountaineering tent with ~48" of head room, than any of the lightweight backpacking tents I've used that have 42-44" of headroom. Makes it actually useable to change or 'hang out' for sitting around in bad weather.

Also: on the hatch seal, since it looks like you left yourself room, I'd consider adding a second bulb seal to the hatch (in addition to the one you've already got on the body) ... that way you could get at least partial areas of double sealing. Someone (like skersfan or TitanPat) more experienced than me can chime in on the actual necessity of that kind of feature; but it strikes my engineer's brain that if it's easy to incorporate, more sealing can never be a bad thing.

I wanted to go a little higher than 3'9" but figured that makes the trailer a little tall for my likes. I know EXACTLY what you mean though! My current tent is an REI BaseCamp 6 which is about 6' tall in the center. To compensate, I'm going to add a CampingLab awning with a privacy enclosure incase I want the extra room.

How heavy are you expecting it to be and will the Liberty tow it SAFELY?

The manufacturer tells me the Liberty is rated for 5000lbs towing. I'm aiming for 2000 - 2500lbs weight for the trailer. Even though I'm not planning on taking it on more than fire-roads, I REALLY don't want to go more than 1/2 the rated capacity, and I will be adding brakes to the trailer. I've hauled 1500lbs in my current off-road trailer and haven't felt it except a little bit on hills, I'm thinking I should be OK. What do you think?

Thanks very much for all the input guys!

 

[skersfan]

It appears on the drawing that you have the water tank below another floor, and you have a side hatch for entry under it. Correct. That looks to be 12 inches, plus the wood attached to the main frame the space allowed for the water tank and then the floor, trap door area above it. Your mattress will set on top of that it appears? Deducting the 12 inches and the flooring at 1.5 and the mattress, that leaves you 26.5 inches of useable set up space. It also puts your door below the mattress, which will cause a lot of wear on the side of it, but may give you access to the under storage. That is the way I read your layout.

With that fridge you will need back access for the air to be pulled to the top of the trailer, and normally a fan is required. If Jim is getting by with it with out, I say go for it. I decided not to use the conventional RV fridge due to that, and was worried everything would fall out when I opened it up. Is it propane and 12 volt?

Still a great layout, and you are right, doing the first one it is best to have everything you are going to install and build around it. Saves redoing things over and over, or mistakes that really can not be fixed.

Excited to see you move forward.

Bob

www.aspenXtrails.com

Home of the strongest, most trailworthy
Off Road Tear Drop made.

 

[matthewp]

It appears on the drawing that you have the water tank below another floor, and you have a side hatch for entry under it. Correct. That looks to be 12 iches, plus the wood attached to the main frame the space allowed for the water tank and then the floor, trap door area above it. Your mattress will set on top of that it appears? Deducting the 12 inches and the flooring at 1.5 and the mattress, that leaves you 26.5 inches of useable set up space. It also puts your door below the mattress, which will cause a lot of wear on the side of it, but may give you access to the under storage. That is the way I read your layout.

Bob, the overall height from belly to roof is actually 5'2" (with the belly being 1'8" off the ground). the Upper frame is going to be angle sections rather than box, so the sleeping floor will sit down in it.

With that fridge you will need back access for the air to pulled to the top of the trailer, and normally a fan required. If Jim is getting by with it wiht out, I say go for it. I decided not to use the conventional RV fridge due to that and was worried everything would fall out when I opened it up. Is it gas and 12 volt?

That I never thought of! I have a space behind the galley for electricity. water lines, etc. I will have to PM Jim about that to see what I need to add to the design. The fridge is 12v/120v, no gas. Now you're making me worry about what a jumble the fridge will look like after a trip!

 

[skersfan]

As long as you are not using propane you do not need the duct. Your golden.

Okay, you set down in the trailer no second floor, a 30 gallon water tank is pretty big, I use one that is 35 gallons and it is 46X36X6, that appears to be in your bed area?

 

[TheThom]

I just think it's awesome that guys like TitanPat and Skersfan are so willing to help out us newbies. What a resource! Thanks guys!

Unfortunately, I have nothing to add....

 

[matthewp]

As long as you are not using propane you do not need the duct. Your golden.

Okay, you set down in the trailer no second floor, a 30 gallon water tank is pretty big, I use one that is 35 gallons and it is 46X36X6, that appears to be in your bed area?

It's kind of goofy the way the frame is designed, there are two layers. There is a 12" space between the bottom frame and the upper frame where the sleeping platform goes.

 

[jim65wagon]

Looks like a very well thought out design Matthew! I see you are going for the basement storage with outside access doors. Very handy, and it is one of the best parts of our trailer! It frees up som much room in the truck and everything we need for a basecamp can be right there at hand anytime.

I do have a couple of questions/comments.

1) If you knock out the lower 45* at the front (just bring that bit straight down) it will give the basement more space and you can make a longer access door to make the storage space, well, more accessible

2)Is there going to be some sort of horizontal electrical chase to hide and access your planned wiring. The vertical channel pictured looks fine for running wires but it could be a pain to wire anything. Would it be more efficient to make the bulkhead in a single piece and just use some sort of conduit to run the wires up to a horizontal chase where the fuse block and majority of the wiring would be run? I do wish our chase was actually just a little taller, my fat hands don't work well in tight spaces and some of the wiring was quite the PITA to hook up.

3)There looks to be an empty/unused space under the fridge and drawers at the galley. Intentional? Is there some use or access for this?

4)Are you doing an underbed panel to access the water tank and battery? If so you might consider putting the battery ahead of the tank, again easier to wire the thing up and switch batteries if needed.

5)I recommend doing a lifesize mockup of the cabin layout in cardboard. Throw a 4-6 inch foam pad on the floor and try it out. Sit in it, lie down, roll over, change your clothes, etc. This will give you a good idea if you will have the headroom you need (and the footroom under the cabinets) Remember, that cushy mattress will take up a lot of headroom.

6)and this is a general camper(and I think I know the answers) question. Why does everyone want to carry their gas cans on their camper? It has no engine, it doesn't need gas......I figure if I carry the spare can in (or on) the tow vehicle it will be where it is needed, when it is needed.

.... that leaves you 26.5 inches of useable set up space. It also puts your door below the mattress, which will cause a lot of wear on the side of it,

I think the door is in the right place, and the mattress should be above the door sill to work correctly. Our door on ours is set too high and the first time we used it the door sill cut into our legs while sitting in the doorway, putting on our shoes (that are conveniently stored in the basement at night) we had to add another 2 inch layer of foam (for a super cumfy 8" mattress) to prevent this pinch. The wear on the mattress from the door closing against it will be minimal.

With that fridge you will need back access for the air to be pulled to the top of the trailer, and normally a fan is required. If Jim is getting by with it with out, I say go for it. I decided not to use the conventional RV fridge due to that, and was worried everything would fall out when I opened it up. Is it propane and 12 volt?
.

The fridge is 12v/120v and vents out the front (has its own fan too) so no issues there. We erred on the side of caution and added an extra vent at the top of the enclosure (grillwork where the fridge counter is higher than the rest of the counter)


Also this is no conventional RV fridge, it specifically made as a marine/yacht piece to withstand a harsher environment than a standard RV unit. Works at high degree angles, the door latches very securely, and we've had nothing fall out upon opening the door, everything stays put. Although I do admit to the door nearly falling off on our first trip, but that was due to my lack of adding threadlock when I switched the door opening direction upon its first installation the night before the trailer's 1300 mile shakedown run....

 

[BroncoHauler]

I really like the concept, and love that people have the skills and time to build their own trailers (that leaves me out).

I do wonder about your access into the cabin. Looks like the bottom on the door opening will be about three feet off the ground. Depending on your height (more importnaly the height of she-who-must-be-obeyed), it might be awkward to get in and out of the cabin, at least without a small step outside.


Herb

 

[skersfan]

I am missing something here. I see a maximum of 26 inches head room with the mattress floor being used. That would put the mattress in the middle of the door or near. Mine is about 4 inches above the bottom of the door, and I have beat the heck out of mine, been in out of it a thousand times. Most likely used a lot more than a normal person would. But I see wear and tear on the mattress.

Another thing I had questions on are the fender widths. What size of tires are you planning on running. They seem to need to be tall to get the heigth of the frame you are talking about. 33 inch tires would have a real problem fitting under 6 inch wide fenders I think. Maybe the cookie cutter stuff would fit, but the ones I have seen seemed wider than 6 inches.

I agree with Jim on the battery, you want it as accesable as you can get it. I do not like mine where it is, but you can get to it. But mine has a 6 year warranty and I have never seen one fail. I guess that is the reason I like it so much. Unfortunately on the proto, I have regular Marine batteries, and man do they suck. No lasting power at all compared to a solar battery. Will be changing mine to the new solar battery when I can afford it.